Do you battle on with your horse, regardless of his talent?

Daisychain

Daisychain

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Reading another post made me think, over the years i have known many very good riders who have battled on competitively with very average horses. One of these riders who springs to mind won the pony club championships (20yrs ago) on a lovely horse, sadly she lost it on the operating theatre. She wasnt from a wealthy family and had two more youngsters bought for her.

She battled and battled with them, with very limited success.
Over the years she would take dodgy rides, had quite a few bad falls etc and then quit. This i think was very sad, as she was as good as any pro.

I myself have got quite hard these days, and wont put up with 'hard work' i have bought and sold a few, stashed money away from it and have progressively aimed to have a better horse each time. It has taken me along time too mind!

I was having a chat with someone the other day, and mentioned i was going to get some showjumping practice, her comment was 'what for' i thought you had bought a S.J...
Then she went on to say rather bitterly, my horse will never showjump well.. I replied, well sell it then and move on!

I think if you are competitive you need to be hard and aim for the best and dont try to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear...
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I'm seriously thinking of selling mine at the minute and getting something easier. Others have seen talent in her (I'm just a novicey type and can't see it myself) but she is just so much hard work and I'm not having much fun. She will probably be a great horse in about 2 - 3 years of taking it VERY slow (or maybe quicker with a better rider) but she's a complete cowbag to ride. I thought I'd never sell her as I do love her to bits but I'm 32 years old, waited 15 years to get my first horse and the good times are few and far between.
 
I think there is an element in many of us that feels happier with a less talented horse, or one that we can label difficult (for whatever reason - conformational, behavioural, training), then we have a reason for mediocrity, or to put it differently we can be satisfied with finishing in the middle of the field. You do hear many people say "oh, I wouldn't want an easy one", or "oh, I'd never spend that much on a horse", well personally I think it's because many of us fear what an easy and/or talented horse might show up in the way of deficiencies in our own riding! And yes, I fully own up to being like this myself, I've just sold my really talented horse and kept the less talented one!
 
Agreed. I've had to sell every one of mine i've had to get the one i've got today.
Obviously sold the ponies as i was too big, sold the 13.2 coz he needed a quieter life, sold the 15h Welsh D because altho she was a great hunter, wouldn't jump, 14.2 new forest could jump the absolute moon - never seen anything like it, but he wasnt the one for me, he had no personality or spark, we just didnt click, 14.2 irish coloured i sold because he jumped but thats just about all he'd do.

I love the one i have atm, wouldn't sell her for the world. Ever. Basically because she's all my own work. She's hard work sometimes, but worth it. Her old owners are absolutely gutted about how she's turned out, because they had big problems with her, so that also makes me grin :P

I think you know whether you have the right horse or not. You have to be true to yourself and the horse. If you don't feel 100% that they're not what you want them to be, move on.
 
I have often read posts where people feel they are letting their horse down because they are not good enough riders. The reply is usually along the lines of 'don't worry, your horse doesn't care'.

Quite right too but we humans do have aspirations and if you (and others) come to the conclusion the horse isn't going to help you meet them, then call it a day. That's what I think FWIW
 
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I think you know whether you have the right horse or not. You have to be true to yourself and the horse. If you don't feel 100% that they're not what you want them to be, move on.

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That to me describes it perfectly
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I'm the patron saint of lost causes BUT I love solving puzzles and get an immense amount of enjoyment out of seeing horses (or horse/rider combinations) do more than they ever thought possible.

And I'm well aware lack of results and lack of ability are two different things. There are a great many horses that could do better with a different program etc. but this is not the same thing as saying every horse can do every job, no matter how much it "looks" like it should.

The more horses I sit on, the more I see, the more I think there are horses for courses and it's both unwise and unfair to try to make horses into something they aren't just on a point of pride. Never teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
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It took sitting on some good horses - young talents or proven winners - to realise how different an experience that is and how easy (relatively) and enjoyable an experience that is for both horse and rider. Good foundations make for good houses.

I spent a few years working for a very successful jumping coach (also a judge and had been a good competitor) and she really beat me up about this. Her theory was all that riding c**p teaches you is to ride c**p. A useful skill, perhaps, but not the only one you need. Riding good ones teaches you how "good" feels and there's no substitute for that. Those of us with limited resources might like it to be different but alas it isn't. (Now, there are good horses that might not look so good off the top for whatever reason. But they will show flashes of it and someone who knows "good" will be able to pick it out.)

I think there is also an ethical issue - is it fair to a horse to persevere in the face of any odds, even if the horse is clearly not enjoying the process? After all, it's our idea not theirs. So many people struggle out of stubbornness and a need to be right . . . is that really fair, let alone admirable?

Not to mention I can't tell you how many horses I've seen "fail" that turned out to be physically compromised in some way. Again, there's an ethical component. And also how many people I've seen get hurt in the process, just to prove a point. As the OP said, imagine what those people might have done if they'd put all that effort into the "right" horses.

Sometimes it's like the old joke - why do you bang your head on a wall? Because it feels so good when you stop.
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I think there is an element in many of us that feels happier with a less talented horse, or one that we can label difficult (for whatever reason - conformational, behavioural, training), then we have a reason for mediocrity, or to put it differently we can be satisfied with finishing in the middle of the field. You do hear many people say "oh, I wouldn't want an easy one", or "oh, I'd never spend that much on a horse", well personally I think it's because many of us fear what an easy and/or talented horse might show up in the way of deficiencies in our own riding! And yes, I fully own up to being like this myself, I've just sold my really talented horse and kept the less talented one!

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^^^^ DEFINITELY what she said. I'd own up too. There's some comfort in knowing if you finish the day standing up you've done well but that doesn't wash on a good horse.
 
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Sometimes it's like the old joke - why do you bang your head on a wall? Because it feels so good when you stop.
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Oh, I like that one
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With my own horse, I am battling on but it's rather my lack of talent than hers. I'm not saying she could go round Badminton, but she is more capable than I am, or, at least, would be if/when I ride her properly. I'm enjoying having some proper training at last and seeing some results. Hopefully 2009 will be the season when it starts to come together more consistently.

But I used to ride a horse for a friend, and she thought the horse had talent (and was bred for the job). Personally I felt that the horse would do the job, but never excel because it didn't have the right brain. I didn't get on with the horse but kept on plugging away because I thought I ought to be able to get something good out of it. Actually in hindsight I also think the horse has some physical issues but struggled to get the owner to understand this.

I was about to give the ride up, when she took the decision for me. I was immensely relieved, but felt I had failed on 2 counts - my riding, and failed the horse as I was unable to find the source of her discomfort. It's a tough one. But the head-wall banging has stopped, so that's something I suppose!
 
I agree completely tigers_eye. I have to say I would love a supertalented easy to ride horse, but then I would put SO much pressure on myself, I probably wouldnt enjoy it any more. I am bad enough with my slightly more than middle of the road horse! But then alot of people love the fact they make their horse look difficult, and so can say "didnt I do well on such a cr*p horse" etc etc.
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i'm not really sure what i want in my ideal horse...

i know i want to event but to what level i don't know! would i be happy at 2** or when i get there would i want to go higher?

i have had many horses through a bit of buying and selling as well as trying to find my perfect horse.

i have had horses with all of the heart you could wish for but no scope to go beyond 1*.

i have had horses with all of the ability in the world but which were utterly dangerous to the point they were unrideable.

i don't have a lot of money at all so a few years ago i decided to plough all of my money into buying youngsters with the aim to finding my 'one.'
the idea is that if they don't turn out perfect for me i will be able to sell them on for a profit to put towards another horse.

i have a 2yro i am very excited by, but i have a very real worry at the back of my mind that i will never find a horse that i am 100% happy with and that i will spend my whole life searching for the impossible dream!
 
My horse ended up with me as he was branded difficult and had a bad rep.

He is not difficult just a proper TB
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I am happy with him. I let my big horse go when I knew he wouldn't do what I wanted.

Our sport costs too much to not enjoy it most of the time.
 
The first horse I brought having had a long break was a real challenge, I battled for 18 months and in the end decided he had to go, I was sick of 20m circles and wanted more from my horse life !
The day I sold him was the saddest day ! I delivered him to his new home with tears in my eyes, as I arrived at his new yard the stable door was open and he walked in to a huge shavings bed and even bigger haynet, guess what he didn't even give me a 2nd glance !!!
I would say to anyone life it too short, sometimes it is just right horse wrong home, or wrong horse right home !!
Horses are too expensive to keep if you are not enjoying them, it costs as much to keep a good un as it does a bad un.
The people I brought the horse in video from were devastated when they sold him, but he was a horse confused and angry as he didn't understand boundaries, from the day I got him things were made black and white (No grey area's), now he is a lovely competition horse competing BSJA and doing OK.
Here are 2 clips of a horse I brought one when I tried him the other 6 months later !
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Please excuse my riding he wasn't very easy believe you me !!
http://s478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149...ofootage008.flv

This is him 6 months later jumping British Novice
http://s478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149...ofootage004.flv
 
i'd rather have an easy one, but don't tend to pick them... and once i've bought them i love them and find it impossible to part with them. i'd give up with one i thought was unsafe/useless xc, because i value my neck, but other than that i persevere because it'll make me a better rider! in retrospect, i had an easy one and he was great, went straight to 2*, and all the small errors we had were mine.
 
I keep going with mine, not sure how much talent his has, hopfully lots
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, because he is mine and home produced. I could use one of Dad's very straightfoward ponies, but I would get much less satisfaction being taken around perfectly with the only mistakes being mine. He is all I could afford, I expect I could sell him now and make a fair profit, but I think even if I got a schoolmaster it would take me a while to get up to the level Pip is as we kow eachother so well now.
 
I have battled for 6 years on a horse who had talent but most of the time chose not to use it. I would say i am an above average rider and I knew after 2 years of not getting very far I should sell him if i wanted to get anywhere but I adore this particular horse and felt so much responsibility towards him. I thought if i sold him he would so easily end up in the wrong place because he can be difficult, bucks and can be a little high spirited. He is smart and looks the part and i worried that if i sold him he would go to someone who thought they could sort him out. Maybe they could but i don't think he wants to compete and would hurt someone or himself if he was pushed too far. He loves to hack and is a fantastic fun ride for me however for the average happy hacker he takes the p**s....a lot! I thought at the age of 14 he may have grown out of it and put him out on loan but no, he was back within the month and an absolute angel for me!!! He is a very clever horse though because he has managed to get himself a home for life with very little work!
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I bought a young horse after inheriting some money, he was bought with my head not my heart and I didn't have the instant bond i had with my other horse, don't know if this was because i promised myself i would sell him if he wasn't absolutely right. Happily he is my dream horse and we compliment each other's personalities perfectly
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We already have a good competition record, he is a lovely personality but has enough about him to keep me on my toes....and he is not for sale!!!!
 
Interesting was having a similar conversation with my trainer and I asked if her 4* horse was quirky or difficult and she said he was the easiest horse in the world they just kept climbing the levels with success. Does not mean the work is not required as you still need all the hardwork and you still learn along the way.

I have a constant battle with my horse its real love/hate. But I think to myself he will not be my last horse and I know I have learnt more from him than any other so I keep going as whatever I get next will benefit from me finding it tough.
 
This is a very interesting thread. I've thought a lot about it having been in difficult situations.

With my mare i struggled on trying to event her for 3 years....it was a difficult one because she is incredibly talented but ultimately hated the job. I carried on because i felt so much pressure to make her be as good as she could be, felt that all the problems were mine and that everyone thought i wasnt good enough for her. In reality she probably could have jumped round Badminton but her brain would never allow her even close. She has a troubled background and it wasnt just that i wasnt as talented as she was, my trainer her jumped her xc and although could make her go more often than me said she didnt feel safe on her. I still have her though, as i adore her and she's started BD, she is a different animal now she doesnt jump.

Now i have Blue to event and fell sooooooo much happier. It's highly unlikely that he'll ever jump round Badminton or get even half way there, but then neither could i. So unlike T i feel no pressure, and am having so so much fun. I feel different pressures, like because he is so easy and straightforward, any mistakes will come from me. But we can bumble along and hopefully i might get to my aim of doing a 1*.....

Tigers_eye has hit nail on head for me i think
 
I think it also depends on who is doing the assessing. What one rider might consider difficult or scary, another might consider a bit of a laugh. Opinions can become self-fulfilling, too - once a horse is branded as "difficult" it can get in the way of its progress. Sometimes changing someone's mind about a horse, perhaps by reinterpreting the behaviour or showing a little more of what's possible, can make all the difference.

I've also seen horses that struggled in one environment succeed in another not because the second was "better" but simply because it suited the horse more. Some need more structure, some less pressure, some The fact is we all have to live in the real world and not every owner/rider can give every horse what it needs to meet its highest level. Sometimes a horse's suitability is as much a function as the situation as anything intrinsic in the horse.

I do agree though, that some people seem to relish "making" horses behave in less than ideal ways and then want credit for being able to stay on. It's all well and good to stay on a misbehaving horse, the real skill is making it behave!
 
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I have battled for 6 years on a horse who had talent but most of the time chose not to use it. I would say i am an above average rider and I knew after 2 years of not getting very far I should sell him if i wanted to get anywhere but I adore this particular horse and felt so much responsibility towards him. I thought if i sold him he would so easily end up in the wrong place because he can be difficult, bucks and can be a little high spirited. He is smart and looks the part and i worried that if i sold him he would go to someone who thought they could sort him out. Maybe they could but i don't think he wants to compete and would hurt someone or himself if he was pushed too far. He loves to hack and is a fantastic fun ride for me however for the average happy hacker he takes the p**s....a lot! I thought at the age of 14 he may have grown out of it and put him out on loan but no, he was back within the month and an absolute angel for me!!! He is a very clever horse though because he has managed to get himself a home for life with very little work!
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I bought a young horse after inheriting some money, he was bought with my head not my heart and I didn't have the instant bond i had with my other horse, don't know if this was because i promised myself i would sell him if he wasn't absolutely right. Happily he is my dream horse and we compliment each other's personalities perfectly
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We already have a good competition record, he is a lovely personality but has enough about him to keep me on my toes....and he is not for sale!!!!

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Good heavens - I could have written the same word for word (including buying the most recent one with an inheritance). Why I keep the nutter, nobody knows - he's not even a pleasant hack when he is in a mood. However I have had him for 8 years and I have realised his brain will never let him achieve what he is so clearly capable of (flahes of brilliance my instructor once said). If I had to choose betweent them I really don't know if I could.
 
I battled for 2 years with a horse who was talented but did not want to do the job - on a good day a pro dressage rider asked me what I was riding, on a bad day she went over backwards or stood vertical the whole time I was on her. Whilst I would never, ever, ever do it again, I don't regret it. Firstly, anything current horse throws at me simply amuses me because anything he tries she did with bells on and then some. Secondly, I knew exactly what to avoid when buying current horse and as a result was ruthless when choosing - I had no emotion invested in the process whatsoever which helped. Thirdly she improved my riding immeasurably.

BUT

Current horse is a dream - he is easy to ride, easy to train and without a doubt is one of the nicest horses I've had the pleasure to sit on. I love the fact he isn't quirky and that when you drag him out of the lorry at an event you know exactly what you are going to get. He's capable of way more than the 20th place I invariably drag him down to, but I have learnt how to ride properly on him because I can be trained without worrying what the heck he will do. I would now never, ever keep one which didn't do what I wanted to, and I wouldn't give it 2 years either! Six months is my cutoff now. I don't have the time, energy or expertise and if it's not improving in six months then it needs a new home with someone with more skills or different aspirations from me.

It annoys me that I don't do better with my horse, but I enjoy 90% of our competitions/training, and that's good enough for me.

The other thing is that I thought I was pretty rubbish on a horse and didn't ride terribly well due to our results....then I came out here and have the amazing opportunity to ride a couple of really well schooled horses who go beautifully if you ride properly - and (with help from the ground) I can actually ride them, which means I do at least have a little bit of a clue! It's riding these horses which has made me realise the true value of training on a schoolmaster, and I think my riding will only benefit from it - you know when you've got the aids spot on because until you do it right, you get the wrong answer. Because my horse is only really schooled by me, the pressure for 'more and better and the next thing' is always there which I don't have with these horses.

Oh and T_E I fully agree about the 'keeping of the less talented/more quirky ones' to make yourself feel better!
 
I guess i do, though i am not sure how much talent Blue has to be honest!
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How do you know?!
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He does certainly have the correct attitude towards working that i need though which is a brilliant start
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i think my nag is ok... he certainly should be able to jump where I want to go...but not sure if he has the right attitude for it. Will find out this year!
 
Sorry if I missed it in your post as was quickly reading - am at work - did you sell your mare? I'm not wanting a push button ride but I am getting fed up as I bought present horse to practise what I learned in my riding lesson lessons and have fun on but she's so quirky that I spend more time managing her behaviour than practising stuff. I know I'm learning and might end up a bit better rider due to her quirks but I'm not improving other things I want to work on. Also I'm having very little fun as she won't hack, argues about schooling and is stroppy with jumps. Most of it is her lack of understanding, if I could afford to send her away for proper schooling (with someone I trust - present instructor) and also have another, more established horse to do fun things/practise on - then this would be the answer but I have yet to win the lottery
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Beginning to think only option is sell.
 
wow thats a tricky one!! I think that you need to be a good team with your horse firstly, to be able to work on a level with your horse to get the best out of them/and have fun!!
but...
If i wanted to SJ and my horse wasnt happy in that job , but was fab on the flat/dressage then i would sell him to a dressage person type thing, I prob wouldnt battle on with a horse that wasnt suitable for me or the job i wanted him to do ( i dont think its fair on the horse tbh),
it swings both ways tho in the talent dep!! Have seen a couple of good quality horses do ok SJ with one rider, and then not able to jump BN with another!!
 
The horses which I have now have as much ability as I need.
I have had a couple along the way who have been terribly nice horses but which wouldnt reach the level I wanted so I sold them once they were going sweetly and worth enough money.

I dont see the point in pushing a horse beyond its capabilities
 
This is a great post.

Lots of people say dont sell your horse, perservere, theres never a problem that cant be sorted with some understanding. If your horse is not being successful competing its the riders fault. Every horse is capable of being successful up to a level blah blah blah.

Im fed up though! My mare is tricky. Shes talented but tricky. Sometimes shes easy, like the first time she ever saw a ditch she jumped it, the first time she went SJ she came third. But the times shes awful are so bad I end up in floods of tears, like the time she would jump the practice jump but not the rustic first fence. The time she took 4 hours to load. Today when I lunged her she was a looney, panicked and cut her leg and the farrier couldnt shoe her because she was too wound up.

Shes safe though and shes done nothing in the 4 years to make me fall off, nothing so bad i couldnt sit to it at any rate! So where does that leave me? 4 years down the line I still havent achieved what I want to achieve because its one step forward, 2 steps back the whole time. Is it me? I dont know
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All I know is that sometimes she is so hyper sensitive that I cant do a thing with her. Other times shes so easy.

Ive had horses in the past where competing has been a pleasure and we have been very successful, however they have been schoolmasters so i still dont know if im the reason my mare can have bad days or if its her mental attitude.

Ive brought a new horse hoping I can solve the puzzel. If I get on with the new horse and everything seems easier maybe it will give me the guts to sell my mare. Shes not a nasty, naughty horse and somewhere there may be a home for her thats perfect. I just dont know what perfect is for her yet
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If I dont get on with the new horse i may give up horses. Im fed up of this uphill struggle
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Depends on the horse to a degree. If I had bought Sienna then I may well have sold her to a nice pony club home a couple of years ago and bought myself a more talented and larger horse (with no guarantee I could do any better on it!)

BUT I bred Sienna and love her far too much to ever sell her. I am bored with competing her and never had that feel on her which made me want to jump bigger, she's also really a bit too small for me -especially XC (although she has the best attitude in the world). In some respects having her has stopped me from getting on.

Maybe before it's too late I'll try and find a faster model, although a. I can't really afford/find the time to run 2 and b. then I'll have to put my money where my mouth is...
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I went out and bought myself a total schoolmaster who really knows her job and is very successful. Until she went lame. I went for a proper amateurs horse, the type that doesn't care if she is sat in the field all week on the weekend she will still try hard for you. Unfortunatley she has sat in the field for nearly 2 years. But the plan was there.

I can say that when she was working though that I seriously enjoyed riding/competing her and I found that her experience made me a lot less nervous as I could depend on her a lot. She made me feel really confident.

I have sold horses in the past that were fine just because we weren't quite right. Too me life is too short.
 
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