Do you give notice if the horse has been sold??

[HoovesandHay]

As above really! Had my horse on full livery for 6 months and he has been up for sale the whole time (livery owner aware of this). This morning it’s now been finalised that he will be picked up this evening by his new owner.

I pay my yard rent on the 1st of every month and I have a contract to say 4 weeks notice will be given if I want to leave. However, the horse in question hasn’t been cared for properly by YO on full livery and is very very underweight (so are the other horses in YO’s care including an emaciated yearling on full livery with them!). Paddocks are overcrowded and he’s been bullied to the point I’ve had to separate him on his own in a tiny little paddock for the last 2 weeks so he doesn’t get any worse as he’s got patches of hair missing from being bitten and chased away from his food/hay.

As the new owner is picking him up this evening and my rent is also due today, I was going to pay YO for the day he is here and any extra hay we’ve had but that’s it.

I am aware we have a 4 weeks notice contract, however I didn’t know how soon the sale was going to finalise so couldn’t give an exact date but YO knew he has been for sale actively for months. As he has been neglected aswell, I don’t feel I should be paying any more rent than what is owed other than 1 days worth for today until he is collected and the money for his extra hay.

Am I wrong in saying this??

 

[HoovesandHay]

Forgot to say - I haven’t put down a deposit or anything like that either

 

[TheMule]

Why didn’t you move him if he was being neglected?
I think you can expect to be pursued through the small claims court if you don’t pay, so I guess it’s up to you

 

[HoovesandHay]

He was on full livery and I live 3 hours away so I only came to visit every other month. He’s only dropped this weight and been bitted over the last month as he was put in with new horses, so I’m wondering if maybe as this isn’t his original herd he’s being bullied. I was in the process of organising a new yard for him but someone has bought him since (a friend who knows the situation)

 

[clairebearfur1]

I doubt she would take you to the small claims if she cant even organise looking after the horses

 

[ihatework]

Well you owe a months notice.
You can choose to pay it or not pay it.
If you don’t pay it then the YO can choose how to deal with that situation which may be anything from nothing, to court to badmouthing you to other yards/on internet.

 

[meleeka]

You owe the money in accordance with the contract. Does the contract state how he will be looked after? If YO has also broken the terms of the contract you might have an argument there.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

You are responsible for the livery as an individual, not related to the horse. Your contract says four weeks notice so that is what you are bound to pay, with or without the horse.

I wouldn’t get hung up on the care element. You’ve kept the horse six months without removing it, and it has only looked poor on the last month. At this time of year (and this has been the worst year), with low grass, horses tend to look poorer - it is far more dangerous for horses to go into spring looking too well than too poor. Yes, it’s unfortunate that the horse has patches of hair missing from squabbles, and one can see how scarce resources might mean a herd is tetchy - but the horse is in a herd, which presumably you have been aware of, and that happens, and it’s better for the horse than being in a stable all day or individual turnout without friends. It may be unsightly for a human but you’ve not stated that the horse has any massive untreated wounds that would seem negligent for a YO. And I really wouldn’t get worked up over the yearling - yearlings often look like a pile of bones, and honestly the ones that look really fabulous at this time of year are usually more prone to ocd and other growth related issues. It genuinely doesn’t sound like the kind of welfare crisis that would warrant you removing your horse on welfare grounds.

I would always pay up, regardless of whether my horse was sold, died or I chose to move it. I feel it’s the honourable thing to do, to pay my bills as per my contract.

 

[HoovesandHay]

You owe the money in accordance with the contract. Does the contract state how he will be looked after? If YO has also broken the terms of the contract you might have an argument there.

Yes it states the livery is “inclusive of full care including hay and holding”.
I’ve been paying YO on an invoice each month for the livery and also to buy him feed, but I can only assume YO has being putting the feed bowls in the field for 5 horses and then leaving so once one horse is finished it pushes the others away from their food.

 

[Abacus]

It's difficult when you're a long way away but you have left him for 6 months in this condition - did you complain at any point along the way about his care? Do you have evidence of having said anything, photos of his condition or videos of him not getting his food and hay? If you haven't said anything and don't have proof that he has been neglected, you now have a weaker case to say that he hasn't received the care that you expected and that is in the contract.

 

[HoovesandHay]

You are responsible for the livery as an individual, not related to the horse. Your contract says four weeks notice so that is what you are bound to pay, with or without the horse.

I wouldn’t get hung up on the care element. You’ve kept the horse six months without removing it, and it has only looked poor on the last month. At this time of year (and this has been the worst year), with low grass, horses tend to look poorer - it is far more dangerous for horses to go into spring looking too well than too poor. Yes, it’s unfortunate that the horse has patches of hair missing from squabbles, and one can see how scarce resources might mean a herd is tetchy - but it’s in a herd and that happens, and it’s better for the horse than being in a stable all day or individual turnout without friends. It may be unsightly for a human but you’ve not stated that the horse has any massive untreated wounds that would seem negligent for a YO. And yearlings often look like a pile of bones, and honestly the ones that look really fabulous at this time of year are usually more prone to ocd and other growth related issues. It genuinely doesn’t sound like the kind of welfare crisis that would warrant you removing your horse on welfare grounds.

I would always pay up, regardless of whether my horse was sold, died or I chose to move it. I feel it’s the honourable thing to do, to pay my bills as per my contract.

I absolutely understand where you are coming from, maybe I haven’t explained the weight aspect fully.

9 of his ribs can be seen even from a far distance and they stick out to the point brushing him is like playing a xylophone, his point of hip and croup stick out to make a triangle, his neck is bowed and spine is standing up away from his torso from his withers to croup.

I don’t mean to say he is a bit lean coming in to spring, on the body conditioning scale from 0 - 10 he is currently a 1 with traits of 0 aswell. I only found this out when I came to visit and saw he was hopping lame from an abscess, I removed his rug to find him like this. YO hadn’t told me his weight had dropped and said he was looking great.

 

[ycbm]

Deleted after more information given

 

[Jenko109]

Oh pull the other one.

You have kept the horse there for ages and not moved him so you were clearly happy with his care through this biblical winter that we have just had.

Just pay what you owe and stop trying to obtain justification to be a bad person from people on the internet.

How you could even consider putting him up for sale or quite how anyone would pay for him if he was in the condition you claim, is frankly farcical.

 

[Goldie's mum]

As above really! Had my horse on full livery for 6 months and he has been up for sale the whole time (livery owner aware of this). This morning it’s now been finalised that he will be picked up this evening by his new owner.

I pay my yard rent on the 1st of every month and I have a contract to say 4 weeks notice will be given if I want to leave. However, the horse in question hasn’t been cared for properly by YO on full livery and is very very underweight (so are the other horses in YO’s care including an emaciated yearling on full livery with them!). Paddocks are overcrowded and he’s been bullied to the point I’ve had to separate him on his own in a tiny little paddock for the last 2 weeks so he doesn’t get any worse as he’s got patches of hair missing from being bitten and chased away from his food/hay.

As the new owner is picking him up this evening and my rent is also due today, I was going to pay YO for the day he is here and any extra hay we’ve had but that’s it.

I am aware we have a 4 weeks notice contract, however I didn’t know how soon the sale was going to finalise so couldn’t give an exact date but YO knew he has been for sale actively for months. As he has been neglected aswell, I don’t feel I should be paying any more rent than what is owed other than 1 days worth for today until he is collected and the money for his extra hay.

Am I wrong in saying this??

I'm afraid no one will believe you if you complain about the standard of service on the day payment is due, after not saying anything for 6 months.
We believe you obviously, because you have explained but it happens so often!

Legally you don't have a leg to stand on. There's a contract. If you break it there could be consequences. Up to you if you risk them. Myself, I wouldn't risk getting a bad name. The horse world is small & you might want someone else to trust that you'll not bad-debt them.


Great that the horse is sold. I hope he gets a nice home where he has plenty to eat.

 

[HoovesandHay]

Deleted after more information given

Because YO has said that she feeds them all together? So by this, I would think she stands with the horses who are bottom of the herd until they have finished their food before allowing them to return to the rest of the herd, as this is what I have done with mine in the past.

I am in the UK, this was the terms in the contract

 

[ycbm]

Deleted after even more further information given about how recent the issue is.

 

[HoovesandHay]

It's difficult when you're a long way away but you have left him for 6 months in this condition - did you complain at any point along the way about his care? Do you have evidence of having said anything, photos of his condition or videos of him not getting his food and hay? If you haven't said anything and don't have proof that he has been neglected, you now have a weaker case to say that he hasn't received the care that you expected and that is in the contract.

He wasn’t in this condition for the entire 6 months, it’s only been this month I have seen him like this and YO has put on an extra 5 horses this month. So I’m wondering if she isn’t having the time to look after him as planned which I understand, but would’ve been nice to know. I’ve complained numerous times that I think he isn’t having enough hay and feed and that he may be being build and she said she has upped his hay and feed but I haven’t seen this reflected in his weight, she has also said as he’s in a herd who now have stallions that it’s just how the pecking order works. We didn’t know YO was looking to put stallions on the field when we first moved there and have been looking for a new livery since she told us. Lots of messages with proof of my concern

 

[TheMule]

I'm amazed you've been able to sell him lame and emaciated

 

[HoovesandHay]

Oh pull the other one.

You have kept the horse there for ages and not moved him so you were clearly happy with his care through this biblical winter that we have just had.

Just pay what you owe and stop trying to obtain justification to be a bad person from people on the internet.

How you could even consider putting him up for sale or quite how anyone would pay for him if he was in the condition you claim, is frankly farcical.

Please see recent comment, he hasn’t been like this for the full 6 months.

He has been sold to a friend for pennies who knows the situation, he needs somewhere new and I have had no luck finding a new livery

 

[ihatework]

I'm amazed you've been able to sell him lame and emaciated

Just what I was thinking!!!!!

 

[SkylarkAscending]

Surely there is no way a horse can lose than much condition in one month…..

I’d be mortified if he was my horse

 

[HoovesandHay]

I'm amazed you've been able to sell him lame and emaciated

Please see below, he’s been sold for pennies to a friend who knows the situation as I thought it better to get him out ASAP than leave him any longer until I can find a new yard

 

[HoovesandHay]

Surely there is no way a horse can lose than much condition in one month…..

I’d be mortified if he was my horse

I am mortified, once he leaves tonight I am happy to post pictures with dates and times when they were taken to actually prove this

 

[HoovesandHay]

Deleted after even more further information given about how recent the issue is.

Yes this is what I have done, thank you

 

[SkylarkAscending]

I am mortified, once he leaves tonight I am happy to post pictures with dates and times when they were taken to actually prove this

Sadly that won’t prove anything - pictures can be easily manipulated. Not saying that’s what you would do, just explaining it won’t help. As the owner the responsibility for the horse is yours, regardless of whether he was on full livery or not

 

[Pinkvboots]

Sorry to be harsh but the state of the horse is down to you I'm afraid you made no attempt to move him or visit more often.

As for the money that's up to you sounds like they wouldn't pursue it but that's a chance you take.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I'm disgusted at some people the way they keep animals, my friend just bought an emaciated 2 year old picked him up yesterday and his in a real state bless him, she basically bought him to get him out of there his a really lovely well bred warmblood.

Someone must have paid alot of money for him at some point.

 

[Bellaboo18]

He was on full livery and I live 3 hours away so I only came to visit every other month. He’s only dropped this weight and been bitted over the last month as he was put in with new horses, so I’m wondering if maybe as this isn’t his original herd he’s being bullied. I was in the process of organising a new yard for him but someone has bought him since (a friend who knows the situation)

If you only visit every other month, how do you know he's only dropped the weight in the last month?
Pay what you owe and report the YO.
It just reads that you don't want to pay so are looking for excuses.

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s great you have sold your horse and I wish him all the luck in world in his new home .
You owe a months notice.

 

[honetpot]

This spring has been difficult, its been cold and wet and although the grass is growing a bit, even with open access to hay 24/7 and extra feeds everything I have has been looking poorer for this time of year, they would rather look for a blade of grass than stand and eat hay. Youngstock are better off turned out in a group, so it harder to feed them individually.
I just wonder what you are going to do if your friend doesn't turn up to collect the horse, it happens. If it was me I would have either paid the YO for extra food or found a freelance to check on him and feed him while you found a solution.
The money, well that is up to you but you will be breaking the contract, and if they take you to small claims do you want the extra hassle? It could all turn a bit nasty if the YO does not know the horse is being collected, I assume they have its passport.