Do You Smack your horse?

AdorableAlice said:
cptrayes, you have answered your own question. There is nothing to be realised, nothing to be achieved and no advice, be it good, bad or indifferent.

See the comments for what they are - meaningless, verbal rubbish. Hopefully most forum users will have seen through, and laughed at, the comments.
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I find some of the advice on here so unrealistic as to be verging on dangerous sometimes. While I think most people do have a quiet snigger or roll their eyes, I do wonder how many people are influenced adversely in their management.
 
cptrayes said:
PR are you ever going to realise that for people who are buying older horses which have been trained or mistrained by someone else, that your "advice" (which is actually normally statements about what not to do rather that advice about how to achieve what you do)
is not helpful and in some cases could be positively dangerous?
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Quite right. I have no idea what happened to Ned before he came to the yard and I didn't start doing anything apart from a once a week ride until he was 10 or 11. He's come on leaps and bounds and although he had a nasty relapse that lasted about a month, we got through it!
I've said it before (perhaps not on this thread, I don't remember) but had I had him from a baby, would it be different? I know for one thing he wouldn't have all the scars, or the lump on his nose, or be skin and bones if he started with me. He still might not be a perfect horse, but at least I would know and I could tell trainers etc exactly what had been done with/to him.
Good, well trained horses don't very often end up at the sales/meat man. It was clear he didn't have good training from somewhere. I am working my socks off with what I have, trying to make things as good for him as my ability allows. I'm getting somewhere, even if it's very very slow. These things do not happen quickly.
I do feel I have to use a stern voice and the back of my hand, or a prod with my finger sometimes. It's getting less and less, but I have to be prepared to do it or I will get walked all over!
 
I find some of the advice on here so unrealistic as to be verging on dangerous sometimes. While I think most people do have a quiet snigger or roll their eyes, I do wonder how many people are influenced adversely in their management.
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I worry about the people who don't yet know enough to realise either how unsafe the advice they are being given is, or who sit feeling a failure because they cannot replicate PR's "success".
 
cptrayes said:
I worry about the people who don't yet know enough to realise either how unsafe the advice they are being given is, or who sit feeling a failure because they cannot replicate PR's "success".
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Is there a success ? I can't be bothered to read most of his/her tosh, but the pieces I have read make absolutely no sense to me. Having said that, I would not be the brightest.
 
Interesting CPT, it seems not wanting to smack horses gets folk so wound up.

I'm not asking or expecting people to take any notice of what I do or say.

I don't think people will feel failures, why should they?

I know you think some of the stuff I rabbit on about is dangerous, I am asking for people to achieve a high leve l of skill, which is not as dangerous as the half trained people and horses who post their experiences every day on here. Poor training in horses or people isn't safe.
 
I'm just beginning to understand how much energy does affect the horse. When ASBO cob would raise or pull his head when I was trying to tack him up I would speak sharply to him and grab his head. I now very gently take his face and speak quietly to him and he responds much better.
Old Charlie horse has learnt that the person with whip in hand has the power. I don't like this but have had to do it because that's better than getting bitten or kicked by him. I am working on it however.
I had the misfortune to witness how he got this way when his owner tried to give a young horse his wormer. After a couple if attempts the whip was produced. It just made things worse of course because now he really had a good reason to be scared. Maybe some horses can be beaten into submission but it is not the right way to do it.
I have used the end of the lead to send a horse away and I will also raise my leg go keep them at a safe distance. I use a riding whip as an extension of my leg or arm but again never at a level to inflict pain. I suspect that human impatience lies behind most of the whacks that horses get. If my example is anything to go by.
 
siennamum said:
I find some of the advice on here so unrealistic as to be verging on dangerous sometimes. While I think most people do have a quiet snigger or roll their eyes, I do wonder how many people are influenced adversely in their management.
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You are right, I do think some horse owners may think there is a 'magical' way of handling/riding horses and expect amazing results by following or adopting certain methods.
 
Pale Rider said:
Interesting CPT, it seems not wanting to smack horses gets folk so wound up.
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No, it's telling them that no-one ever needs to under any circumstances, and that it can never be productive to do so, that's the problem.

I'm not asking or expecting people to take any notice of what I do or say.
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Why are you bothering to post then :rolleyes: ?

I don't think people will feel failures, why should they?
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You fail to understand human nature if you do not see how writing with authority that something is simple, as you often do, will cause a feeling of failure in some insecure people who are unable to do it.

I know you think some of the stuff I rabbit on about is dangerous, I am asking for people to achieve a high leve l of skill, which is not as dangerous as the half trained people and horses who post their experiences every day on here. Poor training in horses or people isn't safe.
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I would have more respect for your views if I once saw you answer a single question that people put to you about how you would achieve a specific result, but you know what - to my knowledge, you never, ever have, you simply continue to say things like

no magic, understanding
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without ever using your time and skill to increase the understanding of how you achieve your results.

By your persistent failure in this regard, you force me to the conclusion that you do not really know the answers to the questions you are asked.


It' s such a shame PR, because you obviously have the time to help people on this forum, and in theory the experience to do so, and I'm sure you sincerely have the welfare of the horse at heart.
 
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I believe that the horse most people want is inside the horse they already have, the trick is finding that horse.

I tend not to give specific advice because without seeing the problem n the flesh the advice could be very wrong.

I just train using Natural Horsemanship techniques. No specific trainer, there are loads, just the basic simple stuff before it got to be an industry.
 
Pale Rider said:
I tend not to give specific advice because without seeing the problem n the flesh the advice could be very wrong.
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And yet you are perfectly happy to tell everyone, including someone who may be being walked all over by a horse that someone else has failed to train to your standards that they should never hit the horse.

That's my problem with your posting in a nutshell.
 
I have done but if with my hand I usually end up worse off! Depends which horse what works, old boy I could growly voice as he was dead to a whip....reckon he had rhinocerous skin! Mix of being kind using pressure(ie I could stand and just put hands up in front of his chest without touching and he would move back) but yes to back up a command if being stubborn or ****** have whacked of course. Respect .
 
Cptrayes no way will I ever condone hitting horses or any other animal, it's wrong and unhelpful and doesn't work.

That's my view, you obviously think very different. Can't help you with your problems with my posting I'm afraid.
 
I only hit mine on rare occasions - when he was nipping me when I first had him, I slapped him back. When he used to kick out at horses when we were riding, I slapped his neck. I don't ride with a whip. When I say I have hit him, it was with the palm of my hand. I don't like hitting my horse.
 
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Pale Rider said:
it's wrong and unhelpful and doesn't work.

.
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I am happy to agree to disagree about it being wrong but you are absolutely totally incorrect when you say that it does not work, because it most certainly does.

You may choose never to use physical means to discipline your horses but to say that it does not "work" is absolutely ludicrous.

You have been asked before and failed to answer, so let me ask you again. A confirmed biter comes into your yard, how do you train it not to bite you? Specifics please.
 
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I would never smack a horse. There are other ways to discipline a horse than smacking it. luckily my pony isn't that naughty so he doesn't need a smack:)
 
I am a person who for many years was against any kind of hitting of horses. I am still against hitting children, or dogs etc and MOST horses. However, I have changed my mind over it in very recent times. With some types of horse personality, it is the only thing that works. I don't mean whipping or beating, just a well timed slap to the shoulder, or upwards slap or elbow to the nose for biting. Or for a horse that is running over you, a flick with the end of the rope.

However, there are some horses that hitting is a BIG 'no no'. And it takes skill and experience to recognise when it is appropriate to hit a horse. Lots of damage can be done otherwise.

Oh, and if you find you are having to hit your horse on a regular basis, then you have got it wrong!
 
It is like smacking a child..... Eventually horses will become scared and then behaviour will get worse. I would never smack a horse unless it was a last resort.
 
diamonddogs said:
CPT, I wouldn't waste my breath if I were you... :rolleyes:
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I think he's already confirmed what we knew, but one more try :rolleyes:


PR it's biting from habit. It's got no physical issues but someone had it from a foal and thought it was OK that it nibbled, failed to correct it and ended up with an adult that bites that they gave to you. Now, how will you stop it? Specifics please.
 
hihosilver said:
It is like smacking a child..... Eventually horses will become scared and then behaviour will get worse. I would never smack a horse unless it was a last resort.
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It's not like smacking a child -children are fragile, horses aren't, children don't have skin an inch thick, horses do, adults don't routinely biff each other to tell people what to do, adult horses do so it's a language that they fully understand

and they don't get worse. Used at the right time and in the right way, so they understand what behaviours you want them to change, they get better.
 
hihosilver said:
It is like smacking a child..... Eventually horses will become scared and then behaviour will get worse. I would never smack a horse unless it was a last resort.
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I was smacked a few times as a child. Didn't scare me and my behaviour didn't get worse. I was a good kid and I feel I'm a good young adult too!
 
Naturally, animals in the wild will socialise with eachother, and boot eachother into line.

Dairy bulls are so dangerous because on the most part they do not become socialised with other bullocks as young in larger herds, as a result they see their handler as an opposition.
In my opinion, to an extent horses are the same. They are largely not left in herds to socilaise amongst themselves and a lot of people dislike turning out with two/three plus horses because horses end up getting booted trying to establish their becking order.

My horses are well behaved, if they went to bite me they would get a smack, or a growl. I respect them, but I expect the same in return, as much as I wouldn't beat seven bells out of them, I expect them not to boot me, push me or challenge me.
 
The foal at my yard liked to bite. He was playing, but it hurt. He is huge (at 8 months stands at 14.2hh). We started off very gently. Every time he went to bite pushed his nose away. Seemed to work at first, but only very briefly. His biting got bigger and harder. He thought the pushing his nnose away was a game and he would come at you with more gusto! In the end I had to resort to a sharp upwards slap to his nose ith the back of my hand. Only had to do it twice. Coupled it with a sharp verbal reprimand, and now all he needs is a 'no' and he stops whatever he is going to do. He never bites me now, but he still tries it on with people he knows who won't correct him.
 
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