Do you think any horse/pony can be top level?

[ponynutz]

Clearly there are those that are bred for the job or naturally have the right characteristics but then those horses are ridden by the best riders and have the best training because of those characteristics. Breeding or natural personality will make things easier but, putting age and any health problems aside, could any horse/pony 'make it' with the right training?

Similarly if they couldn't make it to the top could you take any horse/pony and turn them into a solid eventer, showjumper, dressage horse but not at the very very top?

Not asking for any particular reason just interested in the weighting of natural talent and personality against training.

 

[Cortez]

No. That's why people are prepared to pay enormous sums for horses with potential: if it was just down to training any old horse would do.

 

[Caol Ila]

Second what Cortez said.

What do you mean by “solid?” Most horses who are sane and sound can get around a Novice dressage test or a 2’6 showjumping course. But far fewer horses can manage Advanced Medium dressage or jump a 4’ course. And there are lots of levels between all those things.

 

[stangs]

I can’t imagine a Welsh A making it around Badminton anytime soon, no.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

No. You could probably get something to a stage a bit above average with a lot of hard work but a lot of breeds simply aren't designed for top level competition.

 

[Prancerpoos]

No. No more than any human could compete at the Olympics.

 

[Peglo]

No. Taking how talented they are out of the equation, not all horses enjoy jumping, or dressage or brave enough for XC. I think, like humans, a horse needs to enjoy the job they are doing and some horses aren’t a solid all rounder and just want to hack or school etc. if they don’t enjoy their job then I don’t think they can reach the top. Like any athlete.

and that’s just one reason of many why.

 

[canteron]

My GPrix dressage trainer says every horse could be trained to medium - above that you need appropriate conformation.

 

[ihatework]

Gosh no

 

[RachelFerd]

Anything sound can get round a BE90 with appropriate training.... But beyond that needs a bit more ability. Fortunately eventing doesn't require absolute superstars and 'fairly average' horses do make it to the top with excellent training.

 

[SOS]

No. I think a top level horse needs a mix of good breeding, good conformation, good training and good train ability (different things!), resilience, bravery and a high pain tolerance. Different horses being different mixes of that, some have awful conformation but a hell of a lot of resilience. A very good rider may not need much of all of that.

 

[blitznbobs]

No - i could train any horse or pony to
Medium level fairly straightforwardly to get a 60s +score. But to get 70/80+ they need to be active in the hind leg naturally — to get to grand prix these days they need to be naturally athletic with good lateral bend and movement through the back. The extensions are impossible for more naturally on the forehand horses… the tricks can be trained ( many years ago
I taught a section a to do one time changes on long reins- i had a lot more time and no social life)but getting a naturally unbendy horse with a back that lacks movement to extend properly is not physically possible for some horses. This does not mean that some horses not true to dressage type cant get there (i had/have an ad med traditional cob that would have gone further if he didnt injure his hock in the field) but it is not something that every horse can do.

jumping — if a horse doesnt enjoy jumping it wont do it… you can persuade it round lower courses but at higher levels you have to trust the horse is going to jump and if its not keen it may well look for another route…

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Anything sound can get round a BE90 with appropriate training.... But beyond that needs a bit more ability. Fortunately eventing doesn't require absolute superstars and 'fairly average' horses do make it to the top with excellent training.

Might be a stretch for some Shetlands but I had one in the past who would have given it his best shot even if he had to jump up onto the top of the fence then jump down off it again! Would you get penalty points for that!?!

 

[RachelFerd]

Might be a stretch for some Shetlands but I had one in the past who would have given it his best shot even if he had to jump up onto the top of the fence then jump down off it again! Would you get penalty points for that!?!

Yeah, probably should have prefaced that as ~13.2hh upwards! Although I'm sure there are shetlands out there who could get round!

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

I have 3 horses, 2 of them have had loads of training & they can complete a good course of jumps & also get a reasonable score in dressage. The third horse was sired by an international jumping stallion. When you ride that horse he moves with a fluidity that the other two horses don't have. The other two horses when they jump smaller jumps they tuck their back legs under themselves until they are jumping in excess of a meter. The third horse, right from the word go, even jumping a pole on the ground he jumps the pole & naturally releases his back end & makes a beautiful shape. He wasn't trained to do this it is what he naturally does. He is poetry in motion & there is little doubt he will go on to do good things. I still love them all the same, but appreciate each of their abilities.

 

[teapot]

No.

That said, some of the best horses fail vettings for reasons your average amateur would walk away from. Then it comes down to attitude and ability. The nature nurture debate is an interesting one though…

 

[SEL]

I've got a nice 14h cob and I imagine if Charlotte popped on him she'd get a great W,T,C and some baby lateral work but I doubt she'd be switching from the warmbloods. His trot is more carthorse up/down and even playing in the field there isn't really the extension you see in the bigger horses

Got a great piaffe when faced with a rogue wheelie bin though.

 

[Annagain]

Monty could very definitely have gone a lot further than he did with us. He was very talented and trainable. The only way Archie would have gone further was if you'd stuck him in a catapult and fired him.

 

[Caol Ila]

Can any human be a top level athlete if they work hard enough?

I think we know the answer.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I don't think any horse can make the top but nor do the majority need to. Just as not every rider will make a top professional rider, but I have no need or desire to become one - which is fortunate as I definitely don't have the ability ?

I think there are disciplines where the out and out athletic talent of a horse matters less. For example: Le Trec where the top level involves 40km of orienteering, control of paces and the PTV section includes up to fences or obstacles up to 1.10 metres. It would absoutely still take a good horse to be fit and athletic enough to cope with riding on all terrains but sensible enough to score well in all phases. But it is perhaps more attainable for a potential larger number of horses than making it to the top of say showjumping.

 

[mini_b]

No.

That said, some of the best horses fail vettings for reasons your average amateur would walk away from. Then it comes down to attitude and ability. The nature nurture debate is an interesting one though…

im sure I read somewhere Allstar B failed the vet first time round.

 

[lottiepony]

Interesting question.
I personally think that although they wouldn't make 'top level' most horses could potentially go much further in a discipline if they were trained by top people or were owned by people who had a real drive for progression.
Looking at dressage alone I would say you see more of this happen with lots of non typical warmbloods going up through the levels - thinking of the coloured cobs etc. They may not get huge high scores that the fancier types do but if you can do a solid correct test and get in the 60's I'd be very happy indeed.
Jumping/XC wise I would say for top class needs some natural talent and skill but most horses can pop round a fair size course, albeit with slightly less wow factor lol.
I've got a old book, think its called 'dealing horses' where it says everything can jump 3ft3...

 

[maisie06]

Clearly there are those that are bred for the job or naturally have the right characteristics but then those horses are ridden by the best riders and have the best training because of those characteristics. Breeding or natural personality will make things easier but, putting age and any health problems aside, could any horse/pony 'make it' with the right training?

Similarly if they couldn't make it to the top could you take any horse/pony and turn them into a solid eventer, showjumper, dressage horse but not at the very very top?

Not asking for any particular reason just interested in the weighting of natural talent and personality against training.

No. No amount of money, tie and training could make a shire into a 5 star event horse! Even out of those bred for the job only a few will make top grade, having that trainability and edge to them.

Having said that there;s no reason any type of horse that is fit and sound can't have a go at anything - riding club all rounders are worth their weight in gold, as are safe reliable hacking horses.

 

[teapot]

im sure I read somewhere Allstar B failed the vet first time round.

Indeed. Plus there’s a fb post that does the rounds occasionally of a London 2012 horse.

 

[ihatework]

Oh gawd, most upper level horses amateurs would run very fast in the opposite direction from if they saw vet reports, let alone pay big sums for!!

 

[Lexi 123]

No most horses don’t have the interest or mindset and are physical disadvantage in there built . Unfortunately I think with any horse sports you need a horse that’s breed for it and unfortunately warmbloods do have a big advantage against other breeds they are literally breed for it. everyone is breeding and cross breeding from warmbloods . This is why most Irish sport horse are are haft warmblood because they have more talent than the original Irish sport horse.

 

[AmyMay]

No.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I say not.

My profile pic is of my 13.2 little pony. She's good at her job which is carrying her old-fogey owner out hacking, a few fun rides and a bit of TREC which she does OK.

I've no doubt with some super-kid up with lots of lessons she'd have been an excellent PC pony and as she loves jumping she might well have done something and might even have got a few ribbons at it ....... or indeed in the showring she might have done very nicely as she carries herself well and moves nicely; however at the end of the day she is what she is and won't ever be anything else. Nor would I want her to be.

You cannot turn a frog into a prince all the time.

 

[SantaVera]

Yes all of mine are top level,they are the best at being what they are, themselves.

 

[Red-1]

Rigsby declares that he could rule the world! It's just that he isn't bothered!

and how could you not believe a wise old moustache like that!

Oh gawd, most upper level horses amateurs would run very fast in the opposite direction from if they saw vet reports, let alone pay big sums for!!

I tried a horse who was running Novice, was pricy but wasn't quite level when in medium trot. I loved the horse but didn't proceed. A few years later, it did really well at the Europeans ?