Do you think horses "think"??

JFTDWS

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tallyho, isn't empathy more about understanding and appreciating how they think - rather than inflicting how we think on them (anthropomorphising). The hesitation some of us have when anthropomorphising horses is that it often seems to be an excuse to inflict our values on them (e.g. not putting precious pony out in the rain or mud, over-rugging because we feel cold etc).
 

QueenDee_

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I'm pretty sure my Connemara sometimes 'fakes lameness' to get out of work...something along the lines of

*stop hoovering up grass as though its going to disappear any moment & see Elena walking onto the yard*
'hmmm, yeah I don't really think I want to go for a ride today...it looks like its about to rain, okay, which foot shall I fake it on this time?' :D:rolleyes:

Gotta love them:p
 

tallyho!

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I don't think they are very far removed from one another. They are both subjective. Even Darwin was both anthropomorphic in his studies, and empathetic and ridiculed because his peers said it was impossible for him to be objective at the same time.

Like I say, you can anthropomorphise to an extent where you do bring the pony indoors to warm up with the cat, but that is called something else.

Empathy is not merely understanding how another thinks, that is sympathy. it is more like sharing the same feelings.

So, I am infact now saying do we feel the same things? Now, don't take this to extremes please. I am not about to rug my poor rug less horse and pour him a cuppa tea. But I do believe I understand him when he stands at the gate with his tail clamped and head down, that he may want the shelter of a stable on a stormy night.
 

JFTDWS

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So, I am infact now saying do we feel the same things? Now, don't take this to extremes please. I am not about to rug my poor rug less horse and pour him a cuppa tea.

LOL. Now, I get the impression that you wouldn't be dim enough to take anthropomorphisation to extremes - I meant that those of us who are uncomfortable with it are probably uncomfortable with the more extreme side of it.

Yes, I think we do feel the same things - fear, happiness, loneliness, frustration, and so on - we share them all, but not necessarily always provoked by the same things.
 

traceyann

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My cob is so clever its hard for me to keep up what he gonna get up to next. Hate to say it he far smarter than me and quicker thinking.
 

NeilM

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But I do believe I understand him when he stands at the gate with his tail clamped and head down, that he may want the shelter of a stable on a stormy night.

But that is not anthropomorphism, quite the opposite; you are reading his body language to understand his desires. He may be doing a darn good acting job, but never the less you are understanding HIS language and motivations, rather than expecting him to understand YOUR language, something he will never be able to do.

The fear of anthropomorphism isn't with reasoning owners, it is with those who have absolutely no empathic skills at all, and seem to think that horses live in our society and understand the rules and boundaries.

As I said previously, those who punish and abuse horses in the misguided belief that the horse will understand what is happening and why. Rather like a naughty child being told off or punished by a teacher or parent hours or days after the misdemeanour. Or the 'he's only doing this (rearing, bucking, planting) cos he knows it hisses me off' scenario. Erm, no he's doing that because he is scared / does not trust you / is in pain / has reacted on instinct. Those are the people who make me fearful of anthropomorphism, those who may be able to ride well, but actually have little or no understanding of horses, and I have come across plenty of them I'm sorry to say.


Oh dear, that got a bit long, didn't it?
 

tallyho!

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See Neil, I don't know yet if I can separate a anthro from empathy or understanding... I think there are many levels. So i am going to park it!

As for expecting him understand my language... Horses understand our language perfectly... Ok, I can't ask if he wants one lump or two in his coffee but I can ask him to go back, forward, sideways, stand still, calm down etc... Is that not understanding my language?

He has to learn to associate those words and put two and two together himself so he must have to think about it. I teach him words which then mean for him to action.

Anyway, I agree with you about reprimanding horses when they will not understand why. Pointless but is that anthro? Might have to go buy a book on subject now..... :D
 

Spangie

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mine definitely 'thinks' the un-emptied bins along the road are going to eat him!!

I like to imagine that they do 'think' to a certain extent, though not in a pre-meditated way....... i don't believe they stand the in the field 'plotting' for instance, but if i load my boys in the trailer for instance, they do look perkier and I often wonder if they are 'wondering' where we're off to....
 

Nocturnal

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I'm very wary of anthropomorphising animals, but I do think they're capable of more complex thought processes than most people seem to assume. My 3yo WBxTB, for example, is really quite intelligent. I've seen him use diversionary tactics in order to get through a gate that was being guarded by other horses, which imo demonstrates an ability to plan, and think ahead. He also learns incredibly quickly - I rarely have to tell him anything more than once. It's a bit freaky, actually.
 

tallyho!

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Right! I have decided.

They are just stupid and I want nothing more to do with the blighters!!

Decided to move place we put out hay as too muddy near fence line on north side. Cue 5 mares being nasty idiot bitches trying to kill each other for no reason other than "this" hay pile is better than "that" hay pile. Why not just cover me in mud and shite just for shits n giggles as well?

Thinkers???? Noble creatures??? Intelligent??? Pahhhh.... Retards!!!!!
 
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