Do you think my horse needs more condition?

[Pearlsasinger]

I'm another who thinks that he has enough 'condition' as he is but needs more muscle. I do wish people would realise that you cannot turn fat into muscle but you do need energy to allow the horse to do the work to build up muscle. There have been some excellent suggestion re lunging, pessoa, trotting poles, hill work, transitions. If he were mine I'd probably cut back on the canter work and increase the trot work, to build up the muscle more quickly.

 

[Puppy]

Thank you for talking sense. I really wish more people had this approach.

I take it that is aimed at me, as I disagreed with you. Meh, I stand by what I said, I would like to see the horse with a bit more coverage.

 

[Puppy]

I don't like to see fat horses either. However, this horse, to me, looks as if it could do with a different sort of nutritional support to assist with the development of muscle and condition generally.

How will topline come, Katikins, without the correct nutritional support?

I really wish more people had this approach.

 

[0ldmare]

Prob aimed at me too puppy, but I have to say I think its unrealistic to expect to get fab top line without the horse gaining *a little* more condition

 

[frannieuk]

For me, he doesn't need any more condition, just muscling up. However, it may be that his rations need adjusting / increasing to help the muscle development, but this needs to be done in conjunction with the work.

 

[millitiger]

but do you really need "fab topline" or is it just what we are conditioned to expect to see?

why do we need that if the horse is happy, healthy and performing well?

my own tb certainly doesn't have the topline some people on this thread would like but she is eventing fit.
she hasn't got a big topline but is scoring over 75% in dressage comps, sub-30 scores eventing etc.

 

[soloequestrian]

If he has plenty of energy to do the work you want him to do, don't worry about it. He looks very healthy. In terms of 'topline', I am a total Balance saddle nerd - have a look at their website (Balance International) for lots of fascinating stuff on the effects of the saddle.

 

[AmyMay]

but do you really need "fab topline" or is it just what we are conditioned to expect to see?

why do we need that if the horse is happy, healthy and performing well?

my own tb certainly doesn't have the topline some people on this thread would like but she is eventing fit.
she hasn't got a big topline but is scoring over 75% in dressage comps, sub-30 scores eventing etc.

Think you're making a really valid point here. However, the horse doesn't look as if it has much, if any, real muscle tone to me. Look at it's bum.... I think there is a difference between a fit lean horse and a lean horse lacking muscle (IMO).

I also don't think he's a particularly 'light' horse.

But clearly this is a 'post' with opinions divided

Would be really interesting to see what Baydale thinks.....

 

[millitiger]

Millie isn't a light tb- she is in a wide saddle.

However, she is in a very similar condition to OP's horse although i think her horse has a better neck than Millie.

Millie's quarters are more rounded but she has had a huge bum since she was a foal!
the same way some horses are predisposed to having angular quarters which i think may be the case with OP's horse.

 

[xRobyn]

I may well be completely wrong but aren't muscle and fat completely different types of tissue and therefore cannot 'turn into' one another?

I think his weight looks fab, topline yes but as others have said, if he is fit and healthy then great, he certainly doesn't look poor

 

[Colleen_Miss_Tom]

Think you're making a really valid point here. However, the horse doesn't look as if it has much, if any, real muscle tone to me. Look at it's bum.... I think there is a difference between a fit lean horse and a lean horse lacking muscle (IMO).

I also don't think he's a particularly 'light' horse.

But clearly this is a 'post' with opinions divided

Would be really interesting to see what Baydale thinks.....

I agree with the above

To me if he were mine I would like slight more coverage on him and then building up his topline right from the poll and building the neck up and strengthening the muscles along his back and croup .

I had madams back done last week and physio gave me an exercise to do with her before I started my warm up . Obviously depending if he kicks or how quiet the horse is ..... Stand to the back and to the side slightly and reach with both hands up over his croup slightly digging the fingers in and dragging your hand right up over his rump and down each side of his bum and down towards the hock (not as far obviously) ....This basically gets your horse humping his back and stretching the muscle . Do this several times everyday before you start your ridden or lungeing work .

Plenty of hill work will also get those muscles on his backside back into shape .
I would also definitely work out some correct feeding for him .... there is a couple of suggestions made which would or should work .

Good luck

Col x

 

[Cyberchick]

One of those 'zoom grooms' are really good for this as well and you can incorporate it into your grooming routine and was recommended by my horses physio.

 

[ester]

I may well be completely wrong but aren't muscle and fat completely different types of tissue and therefore cannot 'turn into' one another?

I think his weight looks fab, topline yes but as others have said, if he is fit and healthy then great, he certainly doesn't look poor

no you aren't wrong, however he still needs to be given the building blocks of muscle (ie proteins) in his diet in order to produce more muscle tissue. Hence I am with amymay et al on this one.

 

[Starbucks]

Aww he’s really cute. TBH, although he’d probably look “prettier” if he had a bit more weight on sounds like he’s really well in himself which is the main thing. I think people get a bit obsessed with horses fitting a perfect appearance (to them) but they are all different. I wonder how many of us are perfectly not fat or thin with perfectly toned muscles and no bony bits??

 

[CBFan]

I REALLY HATE fat horses and I know TB's 'are suposed to be lean' - but doen't that apply to all horses???!! but IMO he could do with a little more condition. both weight and muscle.

There is a TB at our yard how arrived in a similar contition to yours and it has taken a lot of fiddling about with feeds to find one that suits her. speedi-beet was one thing that really helped her gain condition - in fact this was her 'feed' over winter!! that and add-lib hay.

If the conditioning cubes aren't working I would look at changing either to a different brand OR trying a feed balancer - something like topspec usually has good results and it has a probiotic in it which should help his gut - you should see a difference by the time you come to the end of yourfirst bag... by the sounds of it the alfa doesn't need changingbut you could try substituting some for a bit of speedi-beet..

as for the muscle I think he could benefit from lots of long and low work and trot poles... they should really help get him bouncing over his back...

 

[jaypeebee]

You can see that he has dropped condition and weight from the first winter photo to the later photo today. His topline is lacking from his withers right through to his croup, particularly around his loins and flank area. His neck is not as solid as previously and he doesnt look muscled up and highly fit. I would feed smaller amounts of the correct feed rather than feeding large quantities of any old feed and he would be put on an individual exercise plan to help develop the areas he is lacking in.

 

[Laura2408]

Personally I think he just needs more muscle.

I have a similar horse muscle wise,he is improving but its very hard since he is a typical throw head in the air to avoid work arab therfore he has very little bum muscle as he pulls himself along rather than working from behind, although he is super fit so god knows how he hasnt built up yet!

I would feed a conditioning feed of some sort to help him muscle up. At the moment mine is on Baileys Topline Mix along with a dash of oil and he looks much better but it is taking a while to work. I also think some of its conformation and some horses are prone to being angluar rather than round.
I always work in an outline, work long and low and also try things like trotting poles and small jumps as they get the horse to work from behind. I also lunge in loose side reins once a week to get him stretching down. I also tryto do hill work in walk to get his back legs underneath him

 

[xRobyn]

no you aren't wrong, however he still needs to be given the building blocks of muscle (ie proteins) in his diet in order to produce more muscle tissue. Hence I am with amymay et al on this one.

Completely agree, I just thought foods generally supplied either building blocks, as you say, or helped in gaining weight. I don't have much experience or knowledge with food (Trouble with a good do-er!) so wouldn't have the slightest idea how to go about it, however everyone here is very knowledgeable and I'm sure every little helps

 

[Chestnuttymare]

I think he is lovely. I don't think he needs to be fatter, just needs to build some muscle.
I love top spec, their feed balancer along with their cool condition cubes. I know loads of ex racers who have been put on it and just thrived on it. I mix mine with some speedi beet.
My mare is similar, she isn't designed to be 'fat'. (her bum is a bit bigger tho lol). My vet always comments on her being just right.
Fat cannot be turned into muscle, they are two seperate things. They need the correct feed to improve and build the muscle they already have.
I like to see a tb looking like a tb.
God luck with him, he is gorgeous.

 

[NicoleS_007]

You can see that he has dropped condition and weight from the first winter photo to the later photo today. His topline is lacking from his withers right through to his croup, particularly around his loins and flank area. His neck is not as solid as previously and he doesnt look muscled up and highly fit. I would feed smaller amounts of the correct feed rather than feeding large quantities of any old feed and he would be put on an individual exercise plan to help develop the areas he is lacking in.

I think he looks better in the second photo! lol well each to there own ... I would say he is pretty light weight! his saddle is a medium narrow with extra stuffing! Well hes probably the most lightweight horse in our yard anywho ... Thanks for the advice everyone, shall be doing alot of hill work and troting poles (not to fond of the pessoa apparently they jab at the mouth!) Oh and i shall try the muscle up cubes with the Alfa- oil

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

he needs more muscle but i think he looks fab in himself, his coat etc.

he will burn calories quickly being a TB, so think of it as giving him excess fuel so he can build up, not just maintain.

i have found winergy equilibrium condition and charnwood milling linseed to be the 2 best things for getting enough calories in to TB's.

 

[Kenzo]

For the amount of work you do with him, the feed he's currently on, he's pretty much what you'd expect him to look like.

Weight wise, for the work your doing, I'd say he's spot on, he's not under weight at all.

Food wise, personally I'd changing his diet a tad just so he's getting everything he requires to keep up with the work your asking of him without him burning too much off or adding the excess weight.

I'd have chat to a few feed companies first before making any changes, I agree a balancer could just be the one thing that will make a big difference.

 

[Achinghips]

He looks too skinny to me, I'd want a few more pounds on definately, his bum looks like a triangle from behind and he's in too much on the flank.

Not all TB's are "meant" to be this lean, unless they are actively actively being raced or are in training.

and just to prove the point .... here's my skinny TB:

 

[Wimbles]

just a thought, what would having more weight on him actually achieve?

Not saying who is right or wrong as don't want to get involved in a battle (still have the scars from previous bouts)

Just genuinely would like to know why people would like more weight on.

I can grasp why people wouldn't want more weight on horses due to stressing on joints etc when doing strenuous exercise but if the horse has more than enough energy to do the job that's being asked of it the why more weight?

 

[Starbucks]

He looks too skinny to me, I'd want a few more pounds on definately, his bum looks like a triangle from behind and he's in too much on the flank.

Not all TB's are "meant" to be this lean, unless they are actively actively being raced or are in training.

and just to prove the point .... here's my skinny TB:

Obviously you're skinny TB is a new mummy in the pic so don't want to critize but I think the OP's horse looks healthier!

 

[NicoleS_007]

He looks too skinny to me, I'd want a few more pounds on definately, his bum looks like a triangle from behind and he's in too much on the flank.

Not all TB's are "meant" to be this lean, unless they are actively actively being raced or are in training.

and just to prove the point .... here's my skinny TB:

are u being serious when u say skinny? ... My horse would probably look like this in a couple of weeks if he was out on that grass lmao but he was like this when we first got him years ago and it was like sitting on a barrel which jiggled alot and the poor lad was as lazy as a snail ...

Have emailed a couple feed companies to see what they recomend ... got one back from Winergy Equilibrium, said give him 2kg of the condition and 1kg of high energy! Shall wait for the rest to reply and then decide what to go for

ps is it posible to make his "triangle" shaped bottom more rounder through muscling?

 

[Spudlet]

As a general point, it's MUCH better for a horse to be a bit on the skinny side than a bit on the tubby side.

OP, I'd talk to some feed companies but most of what I think he needs is muscle.

It is not good for any horse to look fat, whatever its breed.

 

[kerryflower]

my grey TB was EXACTLY the same. He always looked like he was racing fit, one of those really annoying people who could eat all day and still be a bean pole. I tried EVERYTHING. We live on some welsh mountaisn so hillwork was a standard for any ride and he was schooled long and low as well as into a normal contact. Basically I owuld say he needs more topline rather than weight because as much as I tried you could always feel and see Max's ribs.

 

[kerryflower]

oops sorry didnt pc had a fit and didnt realise that previosu post had posted.....

My previous horse was a grey TB and was EXACTLY the same as yours. Try as I might he always looked ready to race the grand national!! I tried EVERYTHING. Had Baileys and Dod&H nutritionists, vets, physios etc. But he just wouldnt put weight on. He wasn't skinny just looked like yours, lean and fit, maybe too lean. But in the end I just took it that he was always going to be like that. One of those dead annoying people who can eat all day and not put on a pound! lol. His bloods, worm counts and health checks were all ok and so was his back.

We live on the side of the welsh mountains so hill work was standard for any riding and he was worked long and low as well as in a normal outline. Always got good dressage marks so he was using himself properly but his topline never looked magnificent. I used all sorts of feeds and supplements. I found the best was top spec super conditioning flakes. Blue chip didn't help as much.

I would say that he probs needs more topline, particularly on bum but don't beat urself up about it. I know exaclty what it's like to keep trying and nothing happening. As long as he is healthy and happy and able to do the work you want him to you can only do ur best to maintain that

 

[FMM]

I think he needs more weight and more muscle. But then, as I am sure people will comment, what else would I say.

Notwithstanding the fact that I show horses and therefore do like to see them slightly more covered than this, he doesn't look fit to me, just slightly poor. He is carrying less weight/condition/topline or whatever you want to call it, than many of the horses competing at Badminton a few weeks ago. I assume we can all agree that the majority of those are going to be fairly fit? WIth the work and feeding discussed on here, I am surprised he doesn't look more "furnished". Does he have any muscular background problems?