Do you think this horse is greying out & what colour? pics

[Roasted Chestnuts]

If hes got any welsh in him he could just be displaying sabino characteristics, he has the raggedy socks etc that goes with this.

My boy displays it, folk think hes a youngster greying out sometimes (behaviour sometimes lol ) but when hes in summer coat of clipped out he looks very grey, He does have white stripes in his tail and mane so folk have said he could be rabicano but I think he sabino and I think maybe yours is displaying it as well.

Sorry if crossposted with anyone not read thread

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Lol, lucky find, but i have a HipoxPRE and the similarities are there, my dun i always presumed came from the Hipo side but it is apparently (ill wait for Faracat to confirm) in the pre's too!

Dun is a dominant gene that dilutes the color of body hair, leaving the points and head unaffected. Dun horses also show "primitive markings" consisting of a dark dorsal stripe, leg barring, shoulder stripes and concentric marks on the forehead (spiderwebbing, cobwebbing). The dorsal stripe appears to be a consistent feature of dun horses while the other "primitive marks" vary and may not all be present, or visible. The effect of the Dun gene on the base colors of chestnut, bay and black produces horses with shades that range from apricot, golden, dark gray, olive, and many, more subtle, variations. Dun is inherited independently of other coat color genes and can occur in combination with any other genes that modify the base colors. Dun dilution is present in many breeds of horses including Quarter Horses, Paints, Appaloosas, Icelandic Horses, Norwegian Fjords, Paso Finos, Peruvian Pasos and several of the pony breeds. The names assigned to the various Dun colors vary by breed.

PRE's have both Dun and Cream (causes buckskin on a bay base).

 

[Gwena]

Someone else said Welsh in there too. Thanks BB.
Faracat he'll not want for anything - a bit of firm but fair& consistency is the way I'm going with him. Thainks for you input tonight x

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I look forward to seeing his progress.

 

[Amaranta]

i am back and brrrr its cold out there, her genotype is GGEeAACCppchchzz, colour TORDA, I think shes taking the mick! shes dapple grey!!

Homozygous Grey, One black, One red, Homozygous Agouti (bay) if Spanish testing, no cream, no pearl, no champagne and no silver.

She is a greying bay

ETA TORDA is spanish for grey

 

[Amaranta]

Sorry, I seem to be a bit deaf today.

Not grey as they tend to get 'goggles' around the eyes early on in the greying out process.

Not a true Roan either.

He is a bay Tobiano and definitely has flecking. Does he have white hairs at the top of his tail? Is the flecking mainly on his flanks?

Sorry to correct you but greys don't always get goggles, only one of mine ever has and I suspect he was homozygous for grey, but that is just a theory, I have bred 4 greys and only 1 had goggles.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Goggles???

Like this??

 

[Mongoose11]

Erm, cutest goggles EVER BB!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Amaranta - so CC mens negative for cream? What would they use for positive for cream?

ETA

Sorry to correct you but greys don't always get goggles, only one of mine ever has and I suspect he was homozygous for grey, but that is just a theory, I have bred 4 greys and only 1 had goggles.

Don't worry, I'm always interested in learning. I did say 'tend to' as nearly every grey i've known had goggles, but it does depend on which horses you meet over the years.

My grey was born with goggles and she is heterozygous for grey. I did read that there was a theory linking homozygous greys with fleabites (she is covered in fleabites too!).

Goggles like this.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Erm, cutest goggles EVER BB!

Ill let him know, im sure he will give you a snuffle for that x

 

[Amaranta]

Amaranta - so CC mens negative for cream? What would they use for positive for cream?

For some reason known only to the Spanish they do it back to front - but only on the cream gene, it's almost as if they love to confuse people

ETA: cc is positive for cream - according to the Spanish

 

[Crugeran Celt]

Sorry to butt in but may I ask about my miniature mare who is registered as a skewbald. She is rising two and is chestnut with four white socks and a white stripe on the face, she also has a white stripe on her rump stretching from her tail down. She has a small white patch just below her ears on each side of her neck. She also has white hairs in her tail but has an all chestnut mane. The reason I am asking is because as she has started to lose her winter coat she appears to have a lot of grey hairs coming all over her coat and in some places there are so many that it appears as if a new white patch is appearing. Her mother is also a chestnut again with white socks and the same white stripe on her rump. Sire is palamino, grand dam (on mother's side is bay and grandsire is chestnut). She obviously is not going to grey out as neither parent is grey but do you think these white hairs will develope into proper white patches?

Anybody???

 

[Amaranta]

Anybody???

Difficult without a photo but it does sound as if she is greying out tbh

ETA; Just read that neither parent is grey, are you absolutely sure? If so she cannot be greying out. Are the white hairs in her tail concentrated around the top of the tail?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

For some reason known only to the Spanish they do it back to front - but only on the cream gene, it's almost as if they love to confuse people

ETA: cc is positive for cream - according to the Spanish

OK - that is confusing, but it all makes sense now. I guess the grey hairs were deceptive and made the horse look like a sooty buckskin. Very, very interesting. Thanks.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Sorry i missed your post CC - do you have a photo of your filly that you could post?

 

[Crugeran Celt]

Difficult without a photo but it does sound as if she is greying out tbh

ETA; Just read that neither parent is grey, are you absolutely sure? If so she cannot be greying out. Are the white hairs in her tail concentrated around the top of the tail?

Neither parent is grey, I own her mum too and her dad is definitely palamino. None of grandparents are grey either. I bought her and her mum together and know the breeder and have the registration papers which name the breede'rs palamino stallion as the sire. I have also been in touch with the breeder of her dam and she has sent me photos of the granddam and grandsire and they are bay and chestnut. Her tail has white hairs that go from top to bottom on the edges of her tail both sides, if you see what I mean and it is chestnut in the middle. The grey hairs are only showing now as she is losing her winter coat but there seem to be more and more each day and as I said there are patches where there are so many clustered together that it looks like a white patch is forming. I don't know how to do photos I did try with photobucket but didn't get very far.

 

[Cortez]

Verry simples colour genetics rules to live by: 1. a grey MUST always have at least one grey parent - but two grey parents may not always produce a grey. 2. A chestnut-to-chestnut mating will ALWAYS produce a chestnut. 3. Whatever colour you are most hoping for in your prospective foal will most probably NOT happen. (I have met palomino breeders who were almost suicidal).

 

[Enfys]

....

 

[mjcssjw2]

the other one somebody found on the internet (sorry cant remember you name and must dash and go and feed) says Phenotype- Homozygous Tordo, Base Colour- Genotype -Dun, GGEeAaCCppchchzz, expected to grey out, so we shall see, lol, shes some sort of weird colour to turn grey!

 

[Wildforestpony18]

Very interesting thread, my mare as a foal, was born black, she's New Forest and at 16 now, she has lost some of her dapples and her fleabites are slowing disappearing

 

[Amaranta]

the other one somebody found on the internet (sorry cant remember you name and must dash and go and feed) says Phenotype- Homozygous Tordo, Base Colour- Genotype -Dun, GGEeAaCCppchchzz, expected to grey out, so we shall see, lol, shes some sort of weird colour to turn grey!

This one is homozygous grey, one black, one red, single Agouti, no cream, no pearl, no champagne and no silver.

Again a homozygous grey (TORDO) but this one can throw chesnuts, bays and blacks (depending what the other parent is) which will always turn grey.

We cannot test for the dun gene (yet) in the Spanish horse, but many if not most, Spanish horses have eel stripes which people assume to mean they are dun, this is not proven at the moment so there is no scientific basis to this. However, I do have a dun PRE who is now pure white and she tests as GgEEAACCppchchZz, so she is heterozygous grey, black based no red, heterozygous bay, no cream, no pearl, no champagne and heterozygous for silver, which scientifically speaking means she will always throw bay, has a 50% chance of passing on the grey and the silver genes, interestingly this mare also had a well defined eel stripe BUT also had cobwebbing on the inside of her thighs and the characteristic dark head of a dun.

In the case of your girl she will always throw bays which will always turn grey, she may or may not be dun but she is deffo not buckskin.

Any colour can turn grey depending on whether they have inherited the gene from one or both of their parents.

Spanish horses go all sorts of wierd colours before turning grey, but I can 200% promise you that your girl will turn grey

 

[Amaranta]

Neither parent is grey, I own her mum too and her dad is definitely palamino. None of grandparents are grey either. I bought her and her mum together and know the breeder and have the registration papers which name the breede'rs palamino stallion as the sire. I have also been in touch with the breeder of her dam and she has sent me photos of the granddam and grandsire and they are bay and chestnut. Her tail has white hairs that go from top to bottom on the edges of her tail both sides, if you see what I mean and it is chestnut in the middle. The grey hairs are only showing now as she is losing her winter coat but there seem to be more and more each day and as I said there are patches where there are so many clustered together that it looks like a white patch is forming. I don't know how to do photos I did try with photobucket but didn't get very far.

I was wondering if she may have the rabicano gene which does cause flecking and can be progressive, they very often have a 'raccoon' tail ie a sort of circle of white at the root of the tail.

Can you post a photo?

 

[Amaranta]

Verry simples colour genetics rules to live by: 1. a grey MUST always have at least one grey parent - but two grey parents may not always produce a grey. 2. A chestnut-to-chestnut mating will ALWAYS produce a chestnut. 3. Whatever colour you are most hoping for in your prospective foal will most probably NOT happen. (I have met palomino breeders who were almost suicidal).

Lol yes, I was speaking to someone about this the other day, she has a palomino stallion she wants to put to a buckskin mare, she did not realise she could get a perlino and was horrified!

 

[doriangrey]

Oooh - look what I found:

http://www.animalgenetics.us/ccalculator1.asp

 

[TheresaW]

I thought Ollie was a strawberry roan. Could someone confirm this, or if he isn't, tell me what he is please?

Last summer

After his first clip, November time.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

(I have met palomino breeders who were almost suicidal).

Lol yes, I was speaking to someone about this the other day, she has a palomino stallion she wants to put to a buckskin mare, she did not realise she could get a perlino and was horrified!

If you want to breed palominos with a 100% chance of getting a palomino foal every time - you need to cross a creamello with a chestnut.

 

[mjcssjw2]

ha ha, when I was much younger I put my chestnut HOYS showpony in foal to a black stallion, out popped a beautiful palomino, there were some slightly horrified looks though, people weren't so tolerant of 'usual' colours then. Thank you Amaranta, I am sure she will go grey, just shes a little bit special in the colour department right now.

 

[Amaranta]

ha ha, when I was much younger I put my chestnut HOYS showpony in foal to a black stallion, out popped a beautiful palomino, there were some slightly horrified looks though, people weren't so tolerant of 'usual' colours then. Thank you Amaranta, I am sure she will go grey, just shes a little bit special in the colour department right now.

Must have been a smokey black carrying red

 

[Meowy Catkin]

TW - do you have any side on summer coat photos of your horse?

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

If anyone id struggling with the letters etc. this is a good link obviously not always an accurate representation but it is fun
http://www.jenniferhoffman.net/horse/horse-color-genetics.html