Do you use a camera in your trailer?

[merlins-mum]

Having just bought a trailer, I am now (needless to say) looking for all sorts of gadgets and fun stuff to go with it.
Do any of you use a cctv to view the horses while you are travelling? or does that just worry you more?
If you do use one, is there a particular brand/make you recommend?

If I'd been using one last Sunday, I would have been treated to the site of BOTH the horses happily whiling away the journey by untieing their leadropes. When we arrived at our destination they had both manage to untie some fairly heavy duty knotting and were just standing there - leadropes dangling - and looking smug.

 

[mountainview22]

New trailer has one/waiting for delivery.

Only problem is it is illegal for the driver to watch it.

Double check that, but I'm sure Rog confirmed this a while back.

Without sounding like a mummies boy, she ordered it for me as I've spent 6 Weeks re building our trailer.

Have a browse on Ebay, wireless CCTV, I sent my mum a few links, I'll try and dig some out for you now.

Only reason I wanted one was because you never know what could happen, I'd rather be safe than sorry but I have to ensure I have a passenger to watch the screen.

Hope this helps.

 

[Feathered]

OH bought one off eBay and fitted it, about 40 quid I think but ours is a wired one, with a screen that fits over your rear view mirror. Towing vehicle is a pick up so you can only see using the side mirrors anyway.

I was all, why are you getting that? Don't need one of them, waste of money etc etc... But it's really good actually, good for piece of mind and also interesting to watch them dealing with corners and stuff.

We went to a show last Saturday and it wouldn't work and it was awful! I worried about what he was up to back there the whole way. Gotta get OH on the case of fixing it now!

So I'm a total convert, once you've had one you won't go back.

 

[Goldenstar]

I. Have done using the venture cam on the range rover TBH I don't use it much just once or twice with a horse that was misbehaving .
However we only use the trailer close to home as we have a lorry for longer trips and that has a camera I would say its far from essential.

 

[BeepaStar]

I must admit ive been thinking of buying one too. I'll be watching this post with interest

 

[flyingfeet]

I found a camera to be fantastic and use one in both lorry and trailer

The trailer one is very interesting to see how they deal with corners. I'm not sure its any more illegal than looking at a sat nav, as its not "television"

 

[mountainview22]

I see what you mean Jen, but in the thread.it was confirmed that the driver should not be watching a sat nav, a passenger should relay instructions.

As far as I'm concerned, breaking the law is just that. I don't need to give the police a reason to pull me over with an animal in the trailer.

I'm simply stating, I THINK it was found to be against the law, regardless of wether it relayed CCTV images or a map.

 

[flyingfeet]

So basically anyone alone in their car with a sat nav and looks at it, is breaking the law? That's unenforceable, plus more dangerous to use a map whilst driving if alone !!

Anyway I have been pulled over by police whilst towing with camera and sat nav on the dash, was not even looked at, apparently they were more concerned that my front number plate had dropped off !!

 

[mountainview22]

Jen, your taking this the wrong way.

I don't "make" laws.

Likewise I don't enforce them.

More to the point, I have said, double check as I'm not too sure.

Reading a map and looking at a camera whilst trying to concentrate on driving is surely worse than having a phone perched on your shoulder wouldn't you agree? After all, it's not illegal to talk to a passenger whilst driving is it?

So how is it illegal to perch a phone upon your shoulder whilst driving yet you can watch a satnav and CCTV whilst driving?

to set the record straight, I have a 7" x 5" radio with freeview, DVD, satnav and three cameras connected, all view-able whilst driving. It also has a bluetooth facility that I refuse to use, I fine it more distracting than a phone to the ear as there is a lot of distortion, when towing I refuse to answer, whilst not towing I will answer and pull over when convienient or explain I will calk back. I also use a separate satnav to ensure a smooth efficient journey.

I am in no way preaching what I practice, simply offering advice on what could get you in trouble with the law.

As far as the number plate is concerned, that is obliviously a violation. Maybe the officer didn't see a need to bring you up on gadgets as they were no effecting your driving ability. I can't tell you why they didn't bring you up on it.

Watch any police TV programme, the traffic cars have the satnav mounted on the passenger side of the windscreen.

 

[flyingfeet]

Ok here is the law:

Regulation 109 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 provides for the use of television sets or other monitors in motor vehicles

109(1) No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven, a motor vehicle on a road, if the driver is in such a position as to be able to see, whether directly or by reflection, a television receiving apparatus or other cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other than information:
(a) about the state of the vehicle or its equipment;
(b) about the location of the vehicle and the road on which it is located;
(c) to assist the driver to see the road adjacent to the vehicle; or
(d) to assist the driver to reach his destination.

So a camera displaying livestock in transit is covered by a) and sat nav covered by b)

The fact you can see a dvd player is illegal as its not covered by the points above

 

[mountainview22]

But, point a does not cover CCTV, point a simple states "the state of the vehicle or it's equipment"

How is a horse part of the vehicles equipment?

Point a relates to a reversing camera.

"*No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven, a motor vehicle on a road, if the driver is in such a position as to be able to see, whether directly or by reflection, a television receiving apparatus or other cinematographic apparatus*"

CCTV is infact cinematographic apparatus, it is relaying video information that is not relevant to how the vehicle performs/the whereabouts of said vehicle.

I hold my hands upto the satnav one, never knew that.

I didn't say that I used the DVD player whilst driving, but it would be classed under cinematographic apparatus I'd assume?

 

[flyingfeet]

Well I am pretty sure you can argue that a camera monitoring goods in transit (horse) that could potentially cause damage to the vehicle is in the interest of other road users to be monitored

I treat my sat nav and cctv as "mirrors" they are checked as I check my wing mirrors. There is no entertainment in the cctv and I would really only focus on it if an usual noise was heard, and then better to check it like a mirror than drive on distracted that something was happening with your "cargo"

I can prove my equipment cannot be used for entertainment as designed for one purpose

If you were involved in an accident and the DVD was found out, it would be down to you to prove the driver could not have been distracted.

It is an interesting point and the law is not black and white (I am scanning the 1988 Road Traffic Act now!)

 

[ROG]

This has been discussed before and IT IS ILLEGAL to watch a CCTV screen when driving - that is the law

If caught it is likely to be driving without due care and attention which is 6 penalty points and a fine

 

[mountainview22]

That's the way I see it, extra mirror, but, being 21, driving a big long wagon often astounds people.

The DVD player never.has a DVD.in it, for your forementioned reason.

The law is an ass. Whilst it may appear that I'm trying to be argumentative, that assumption couldn't be more wrong, I'm thinking in the position of a police officer with a point to prove. It does happen.

On the bright side of the laws flaws (poet and I didn't know it ) there is often a way out of the violation as easily found as the charge for said violation.

Thanks for your clarification though. I have saved the information you have posted for reference, along with the highway code it will be stored in all of my vehicles.

 

[mountainview22]

Ahh rog, your too late, I've had to back down now.

I remember you saying something about it before.

Just a quick hi jack Rog, I read yesterday that you are not "horsey" - thus leading to this question that I don't in any way mean disrespectfully, why are you here? Not that your not an asset to the forum as my point yesterday and today shows,

 

[flyingfeet]

This has been discussed before and IT IS ILLEGAL to watch a CCTV screen when driving - that is the law

If caught it is likely to be driving without due care and attention which is 6 penalty points and a fine

Ah ha so with your credentials you should know, if its illegal - can you point me to the reference in law? I cannot find anything younger than the 1986 act, which I would have thought would have been updated

I will still continue to use my cameras and if necessary take it to court and show them pictures of our horse with two broken back legs in an ifor williams trailers and ask how being unaware of what is happening in the trailer is not in the interest of either the animal or other road users (my father had to be flagged down to be told of the problem )

The CCTV is less distracting than a sat nav, as no sound and static image. How can one be legal and the other not - again the law is an ass!

 

[Feathered]

I don't think the OP asked whether it was legal or not...

So let's assume (as is the case with myself as OH does the driving) that it is the passenger who is viewing the screen...

Although I do agree with Jen_Cots that surely it's not only in your interests to know what's going on in the trailer, but also to other road users, could be the difference between causing a major accident and not.

 

[3Beasties]

With a sat nav you can listen to the instructions though, you don't need to watch the screen to get the information needed about the route you need to take.

 

[mountainview22]

**** Jen, that's bad!

Worst I've had 5 cattle leaving builth, get home an hour later to 3 cattle.

Oh and a forum members horse (big, could see over ramp) going down and not one person flashed!

I am inclined to agree with you, but like I said, I use a passenger to watch it. It's not worth damaging my clean licence when I can just sit someone in front of monitor.

 

[ROG]

So let's assume (as is the case with myself as OH does the driving) that it is the passenger who is viewing the screen...

Legal providing the driver cannot see the screen from the driving position

 

[flyingfeet]

Well its made me very paranoid about what's going on in the back, as I'm always alone (I'd kill for a passenger / company / groom / second pair of hands)

It was my father not me in that situation, but I am not sure I would have handled it well - he limped home, called vet and hunt and no one could get to us, so shot his own horse to avoid a 30 minute wait and risk him coming out of shock

It was a horrible horrible incident and Ifor williams paid up for faulty design of floor, doesn't cover the mental distress though

Hence why law be damned, I will not give up my cctv and fairly happy I can fight it in court if necessary

FYI :- Section 109 appears only have been added to for mobile phones, so stands as is
Amendment to S.109 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2695/regulation/2/made#f00002

 

[ROG]

The laws covers all types of screen unless an exception applies - such as bin lorries

If worried about livestock in rear then its easy to remedy - take a passenger to look at screen which is not allowed to be in the drivers view from the driving position

 

[Pedantic]

I use a wireless reverse parking camera, camera is wired into internal trailer light so gets power when 4x4 lights are on, little screen sits in speedo housing in front of me, I can see all inside trailer so if 2 horses travelling I can see both.

 

[Vodkagirly]

I have a reversing camera fitted. Cheap from maplin and does the job nicely. I wanted it as a horse from the yard had recently had a heart attack and died when travelling, the driver just thought it was playing up and never stopped to check. Least this way I know that he is ok, especially as he is a bad loader I now know he travels fine.
Wouldn't want to tow without it now.

 

[flyingfeet]

Rog you are quoting an interpretation of the law - do you actually know of anyone prosecuted under it for pure cctv (lets not count the lorry drivers physically watching tv!)

The law is stated:
109(1) No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven, a motor vehicle on a road, if the driver is in such a position as to be able to see, whether directly or by reflection, a television receiving apparatus or other cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other than information:
(a) about the state of the vehicle or its equipment;
(b) about the location of the vehicle and the road on which it is located;
(c) to assist the driver to see the road adjacent to the vehicle; or
(d) to assist the driver to reach his destination.

Do you personally think this makes sense to call livestock monitors illegal when sat navs are legal?

I still this there is a strong argument that a camera showing the interior of a vehicle or trailer is relaying the state of the vehicle and therefore sits under s109(a) exemption

 

[ROG]

From the horses mouth so to speak

 

[flyingfeet]

ROG so you won't comment on you own thoughts then!

That is just another individual's interpretation, which as I stated is up for debate due to the way s109 is written

Duly noted I'll swap to my reversing camera if VOSA takes a peek....

 

[ROG]

ROG so you won't comment on you own thoughts then!

That is just another individual's interpretation, which as I stated is up for debate due to the way s109 is written

Duly noted I'll swap to my reversing camera if VOSA takes a peek....

That "individual" knows so much more than any of us do - check out their stats and I think you will see what I mean and probably guess which organisation !! - you may have just mentioned it

 

[merlins-mum]

I've just read through all this with great interest - I didn't realise that it was illegal for the driver to be able to see it, so thanks for that. I will make sure that it is available for the passenger only, to save hassle.

There have been a couple of references to using a reversing camera - do you mean that you just use the reversing camera as the trailer cam? That sounds like a good idea. Where do you wire it up in the trailer?

 

[Reindeer Rider]

I bought a reversing camera from ebay to fit in my trailer for (£70). The problem is getting power to the camera from the trailer. I think you could wire it up to the internal light, but you would need your car lights on all the while you are driving. My husband fitted the camera and welded in a shelf in the nose of the trailer, with an open box type container incorporated (£50 but didn't charge me obviously) to hold a sealed motorcyle battery (£40) securely. This powers the camera. Should the trailer turn upsidedown, the battery should stay in the holder, but if it is thrown out it should not leak. The Camera sends a wireless signel to the monitor that is powered by my cigarette lighter. My passenger watches the screen, (*ahem* ). My 4x4 has two cigar lighters, one for my monitor and one for my Sat nav. I love it. It has taken the worry away about what is going on in the trailer. It has a colour screen and has sound. It has made me very happy!