Does anyone have or know a nutty Connemara?

[Daughter of the Moor]

He is a baby. Native ponies are late to mature. he will not be physically or mentally mature until around six. I suspect he is letting you know he is not ready fro ridden work and is probably very confused by having been to two different trainers as well as being ridden by you. Please give him a break, turn him away and allow him to grow up before expecting him to work.

 

[gallopingby]

I agree, can't push young natives and five is quite old enough to start doing some work. If they're handled /treated kindly as babies they'll go on much longer than the TB types that are backed and ridden at 3. How many of them are still active when they're 20 years plus? I once sent a pony to a "professional" she's been broken and was hacking out nicely, the pony came back 'broken' and all I could do was turn away - the vet was horrified at the state of the ponies mouth. She's been playing in the field for the last few years but is now finally ready to start doing some work. Won't ever be one to sell though. A lot of 'professionals' are not all they seem these days, many don't have the time to put into all the animals they take on and so frequently a rushed job is done or the pony is pushed to quickly when they realised its been on their yard for a few months and they haven't done as much as they should, often because they've been out with other well established older animals thus creating a good impression to the unsuspecting public.

 

[starfish8]

I would also be investigating for physical issues as he is insured, I couldn't in good conscience not - especially as you say this behaviour wasn't in evidence before you sent him away. I would say something has changed, either physically, environmentally, emotionally - to produce this change in behaviour.

I would also bring him home while you do this and see what happens to his behaviour. Take all the pressure off and treat him as you were before you started doing any work with him - let him be a pony and see what happens to his behaviour.

I'm not against sending horses away for breaking, but maybe the combination of a new environment, young horse, different people, different routine, being asked to work etc has blown his mind & he needs 'normal life' as he knows it. Especially if that's happened twice over in a short period.

He's only a baby, give him a chance.

 

[Michen]

I don’t understand the “he’s a baby” comments. Yes he’s a baby, and absolutely therefore that should be a consideration regarding his behaviour under saddle. But this is a horse (if I’m reading correctly) whose turning himself inside out, randomly, in his stable with no meaningful trigger?

That’s not normal behaviour and I don’t think I’d even consider getting on something like that ever again (and I say this as the owner of a very tricky Connie whose now 90% of the time wonderful).

 

[Fiona]

My 6yo connie though clever and spooky, is very sensible for his age. He held it together yesterday when hubby's horse panicked in traffic, jumped a hedge and galloped off, I had to leave poor FIonn being held in the road by a lady while I ran on foot for help.

All those I know in our PC are also on the whole level headed.

I hope something turns up when you have your pony checked over (back, ulcers etc) and that he can have a few months off, and eventually become a good ridden pony...

Fiona

 

[HashRouge]

I don’t understand the “he’s a baby” comments. Yes he’s a baby, and absolutely therefore that should be a consideration regarding his behaviour under saddle. But this is a horse (if I’m reading correctly) whose turning himself inside out, randomly, in his stable with no meaningful trigger?

That’s not normal behaviour and I don’t think I’d even consider getting on something like that ever again (and I say this as the owner of a very tricky Connie whose now 90% of the time wonderful).

Yes I thought that, although I'm intrigued by the fact that the OP has never seen him do this. What is he generally like at home to lead/ handle/ stable?

 

[starfish8]

I don’t understand the “he’s a baby” comments. Yes he’s a baby, and absolutely therefore that should be a consideration regarding his behaviour under saddle. But this is a horse (if I’m reading correctly) whose turning himself inside out, randomly, in his stable with no meaningful trigger?

That’s not normal behaviour and I don’t think I’d even consider getting on something like that ever again (and I say this as the owner of a very tricky Connie whose now 90% of the time wonderful).

It sounded to me like he's been lovely at home, and the turning himself inside out started while away from home and starting to work - and that physical causes etc haven't been ruled out. What appears random might not be. And his age may well be a contributing factor in how he's reacting. It may be that he is dangerous and a cause can't be found, in which case I agree with not ever getting back on it. For me it just seemed to much of a coincidence with all the changes in his young life so I'd want to investigate further.

 

[Ddraig_wen]

A friend of mine has a rather sharp and somewhat explosive connie. She's pretty sensible at home but has ditched her in the ring at shows, run off a few times and can be ridiculously reactive if she's in one of her moods. Friend just sits there calmly and tries to reassure her but sometimes its not enough and she just explodes. She has no consistent trigger but she's working on her slowly. She's gone from actually running off to just threatening so hopefully she's getting better. They do try and avoid things that have set her off in the past

 

[BBP]

Not a Connemara but BBP was well known for being insane and flipping out seemingly randomly. Investigations included head CT scan, bone scan, blood tests, muscle biopsy, back x rays and scoping. Outcome was no brain tumour but instead severe hayfever leading to headaches (dies your horse have enlarged temporalis/ forehead muscles?), muscle disease (RER), sacroiliac injury and gastric ulcers. I had to treat all of those things before I was able to uncover my wonderful beautiful amazing little horses potential.

 

[Abi90]

Oh I can post again! I agree it could be something physical. My very sensible and honest 5 yr old ID turned into a complete nightmare on February this year. She had gastric ulcers and a stifle issue, which combined were causing her a lot of pain and for her to react quite violently! She went from being lovely and forward to very backward and threatening to rear and buck if you asked her to move forward. She also became very stressy on the ground (although never did anything). Nearly 6 months, a yard move and a lot of vets fees later she’s coming back into work absolutely fine. She just needed fixing and some chill time.

Both a professional and a very experienced vet told me it was “just behavioural” and she had an “attitude problem”

Explosive behaviour can absolutely be a result of ulcers which could be due to stress from being sent away or from another underlying pain issue. Especially as it’s a drastic change in behaviour

 

[Patterdale]

Yes I thought that, although I'm intrigued by the fact that the OP has never seen him do this. What is he generally like at home to lead/ handle/ stable?

He's 100%, has been since he came back. He's quiet as a mouse. He was tricky to lead at first and has never enjoyed being in the school ever but has always been very good to do and hack out.

This is what bewilders me. I've known total nutters - but I really don't think he is one.

He's home now and I'm going to try lunging him one day and see what happens

 

[Patterdale]

Not a Connemara but BBP was well known for being insane and flipping out seemingly randomly. Investigations included head CT scan, bone scan, blood tests, muscle biopsy, back x rays and scoping. Outcome was no brain tumour but instead severe hayfever leading to headaches (dies your horse have enlarged temporalis/ forehead muscles?), muscle disease (RER), sacroiliac injury and gastric ulcers. I had to treat all of those things before I was able to uncover my wonderful beautiful amazing little horses potential.

Hay fever is a very interesting idea, thank you! How was it diagnosed?

He's booked in for scoping and I will get anything else that I can think of investigated too. He's a really lovely pony, I paid a lot for him as an unbroken 3 year old, and as well as being top class HOYS quality he has such a lovely nature. So I'm not giving up yet. There is a reason - I just need to find it!

 

[windand rain]

seen a few quirky ones but never one thats totally unpredictable until a mare I raised from a foal was reported to be being nasty. Always as sweet as a nut with me and when living with me but apparently in pain and reactive when away.

 

[millikins]

I'm sure you have done this but have his teeth been checked by a proper EDT? Tooth pain could even cause the behaviour when stabled if he chewed something and caught a nerve?

 

[minesadouble]

I don’t understand the “he’s a baby” comments. Yes he’s a baby, and absolutely therefore that should be a consideration regarding his behaviour under saddle. But this is a horse (if I’m reading correctly) whose turning himself inside out, randomly, in his stable with no meaningful trigger?

That’s not normal behaviour and I don’t think I’d even consider getting on something like that ever again (and I say this as the owner of a very tricky Connie whose now 90% of the time wonderful).

Kind of agree with this, I’ve known quite a few Connies and I tend to think of them as quite sharp but never known a lunatic and don’t think age is an excuse for such dramatic behaviour.

Michen - I thought yours was a part bred - my mistake 😱

 

[Patterdale]

I'm sure you have done this but have his teeth been checked by a proper EDT? Tooth pain could even cause the behaviour when stabled if he chewed something and caught a nerve?

Yes, this was the first thing, done by the vet then checked by VERY experienced EDT.

 

[BBP]

Hay fever is a very interesting idea, thank you! How was it diagnosed?

He's booked in for scoping and I will get anything else that I can think of investigated too. He's a really lovely pony, I paid a lot for him as an unbroken 3 year old, and as well as being top class HOYS quality he has such a lovely nature. So I'm not giving up yet. There is a reason - I just need to find it!

Partly by process of elimination (CT scan showed no tumour or any other abnormalities) and partly my own observations backed up by my vets and reinforced by changes over time.

He’d always been a bit nuts and scary but had a heart of gold, so when he got more and more unpredictable I started investigating. He was head flicking, not a lot but a bit, and would over react wildly if a bug touched his face. His eyes were dull with eyelashes always pointing down, not out at 90 degrees (this is a bit tell for me as to when he is in pain), he had huge temporalis muscles (the ones the sit over the eyes and form the v on the forehead). The tiniest noise, like me sniffing, or a bird scarer going off a mile away would send him into fits, like he was hugely over sensitised. He would panic on the yard or in the field and to ride he was plain dangerous so i didn’t try much as I knew something was wrong. I would say he looked like he had a massive migraine all the time, I am now a firm believer that horses get bad headaches, but it’s not something we ever consider when we think about behaviour, other than jumping straight to tumours. Once we hit late sept/October the explosive behaviour reduced, although he was still anxious, which is when I then scoped him. Over winter with treatment for ulcers he improved massively. Then in late feb/March the erratic behaviour and more head flicking returned and I started to think it must be linked the plants coming into flower. So after discussions with my Vet I started treating with antihistamines. He was so much happier that following summer and was no longer wild and unpredictable.

The following year I started the antihistamines in Feb, before symptoms started, and he was a complete delight last year, perfect to ride, doing everything bitless or bridleless, dressage and xc schooling, hacking on a loose rein, relaxed and happy and a real pleasure, the horse I always knew he could be. His temporalis muscles went from bulging to flat and his eyes softened and eyelashes pointed out not down. I think the headaches/hayfever and ulcers caused the most issues. Sacroiliac made him electric behind Saddle but rectified quickly, and the muscle issue is stress triggered so I just work with it in mind.

 

[Michen]

Kind of agree with this, I’ve known quite a few Connies and I tend to think of them as quite sharp but never known a lunatic and don’t think age is an excuse for such dramatic behaviour.

Michen - I thought yours was a part bred - my mistake 😱

Nope, he is a full registered connie out of the rather yummy (and sadly now late) sure Westside Mirah. Mine is not a good example of the breed in terms of looks!!

 

[kimberleigh]

Funny you say he is out of Westside Mirah - a friend of mine has over 100 connies with a lot being by WM. The good ones are great, he has a stallion by him who has a bloody impeccable temperament, runs with mares and foals and yet will still come up for a good cuddle even when they're all bang in season and his mind is on covering, he's an angel!

But there seems to be a huge trend in "quirky" progeny too! He has quite a few that it is lucky they are brood mares because its unlikely that anyone would even bother with trying to back them...one particular mare is stunning but god does she have a temper.

I think perhaps it may be the fact that there is so much outcrossed blood in that particular line, people treat them as natives when really they need treating like more blooded horses? Just a musing! What people/professionals "get away with" in backing/breaking a native, they may not if it was a TB for example.

WM himself is 12.5% TB on dam side alone - also has TB on sire side. So depending on damline you could actually end up with progeny who are not really Connie after all!

 

[Crackerz]

He is 4, if you are sure it's not pain related then clearly something has gone wrong in his training when he was away from home. I'd turn him away, then next year have a trainer come to YOUR yard to start from scratch again.

We have a yard full of Connies, none of them are dangerous and only 1 i would class as sharp and he is from Ireland. 4 of the Connies on the yard are from the same family and are fantastic, including a stallion and 2yold colt. They are however, very clever, more so than any New Forest i have met

 

[MotherOfChickens]

His temporalis muscles went from bulging to flat and his eyes softened and eyelashes pointed out not down. I think the headaches/hayfever and ulcers caused the most issues. Sacroiliac made him electric behind Saddle but rectified quickly, and the muscle issue is stress triggered so I just work with it in mind.

I think this is very interesting, I remember the photos of his temporals muscles I think? glad you managed to get on top of it. I am very interested in grimace scales etc generally and we need to be applying them to all farm and companion animal species (sorry, going off topic OP).

 

[bubsqueaks]

Thanks very much for all the replies.

Brain tumour/some kind of neurological issue is what the trainer thinks. I asked the vet who pooh-poohed it saying it's an urban myth to explain bad behaviour and that he'd never seen one in 30 years of practice. So I dunno.

Since he's come back I've been reminded of what a lovely pony he is to deal with. He was such an easy breaker, my kids were riding him round the yard after a few weeks, just very kind. He's always had a bit about him, never been a dope on a rope but he's always been kind. Which is why I struggle with what everyone here is telling me.

My options are pretty limited;
1. start working him again myself
2. send to another trainer
3. turn away
4. sell
5. investigate
6. PTS

1. I'm not allowed as he's been branded dangerous. I also don't want to for the same reasons. Not an option.
2. I think it would be irresponsible to put someone else in danger, and would also stress him beyond belief. Not an option.
3. I don't have endless space and grass for useless horses but it could be done. But then what!?
4. I would actually consider this to the right home - if he wasn't what he is. But a well bred, nice colour 14.2 Connemara with amazing paces, a massive jump and a lovely nature is a dodgy dealers dream. If he was 16hh and I didn't think a child might get him, I might. But as it is - not an option.
5. Expensive - and to what end? Even if he has terrible ulcers, should something with such extreme reactions be ridden?
6. Probably the most sensible and safest option on paper - but I just can't. He's a nice, kind healthy pony. Not an option.

Personally, I think it's pain. I think he's screaming at us. I don't think he's just a wrong un.

I think I'm going to get him scoped for ulcers and any other diagnostic things we can come up with. He's insured. He'll then have had a good chance?

Any thoughts very welcome!!

Hi Patterdale, please please get him scoped for ulcers especially if he was transported over from Ireland - we have an 8 year old Connemara who had glandular ulcers (very different & difficult to treat from the more normal squamous ulcers) - they caused him to bronc my 16 year old daughter off & our instructor - after 4 rounds of treatment he has just been turned away to give us all some breathing/decision time - it was explained to me as like having acid splashed in your face & produces very explosive reactions on what are already quite highly strung Connemara ponies - good luck.

 

[Farma]

My sister has a connie, she bought her and she was a total dream, the easiest horse ever even as a 4 yr old, but with a few breaks here and there and having my sister who is very nervous ride her she has turned into a bit of a nut a few times, she went from a quiet plod to a sharp broncing rodeo bull a couple of times, put someone more experienced back on a few times and she goes back to her quiet self.
So as kind as she is she just doesn't cope well for long periods with a nervous/novice on her, to be fair mine is a wb and is exactly the same.

 

[Michen]

Not quite sure I understand the logic of breeding from mares you wouldn’t ride due to behaviour!

Mine is quirky no doubt, but it’s his quirkiness that also makes him talented and very engaging.

Funny you say he is out of Westside Mirah - a friend of mine has over 100 connies with a lot being by WM. The good ones are great, he has a stallion by him who has a bloody impeccable temperament, runs with mares and foals and yet will still come up for a good cuddle even when they're all bang in season and his mind is on covering, he's an angel!

But there seems to be a huge trend in "quirky" progeny too! He has quite a few that it is lucky they are brood mares because its unlikely that anyone would even bother with trying to back them...one particular mare is stunning but god does she have a temper.

I think perhaps it may be the fact that there is so much outcrossed blood in that particular line, people treat them as natives when really they need treating like more blooded horses? Just a musing! What people/professionals "get away with" in backing/breaking a native, they may not if it was a TB for example.

WM himself is 12.5% TB on dam side alone - also has TB on sire side. So depending on damline you could actually end up with progeny who are not really Connie after all!

 

[SEL]

Not quite sure I understand the logic of breeding from mares you wouldn’t ride due to behaviour!

I thought that! Mainly because I deal with PSSM every day and we know now that leads to behaviour issues and is passed on through untested breeding. If this stallion is throwing some challenging offspring then there's every chance there's a genetic link to something nasty. Let's hope for OP its 'just' a case of mishandling at the training yard and can be overcome with patience and TLC.

 

[Michen]

I thought that! Mainly because I deal with PSSM every day and we know now that leads to behaviour issues and is passed on through untested breeding. If this stallion is throwing some challenging offspring then there's every chance there's a genetic link to something nasty. Let's hope for OP its 'just' a case of mishandling at the training yard and can be overcome with patience and TLC.

I’ve onky ever heard good things about Westside Mirah personally... they are competition bred horses so unlikely to be dobbins hence why he was such a successful stallion. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with quirky and sharp when they do the job they were bred for very well. Not that this is anything to do with Op so off track!

 

[Bellalily]

We've had ours almost 18 1/2 years, bought as an almost 5 year old from a dealer who had backed him. They are the most intelligent and quick thinking equine I know and our wonderful Connie has taught us both so much. He's been there and done it and the last 7 years has been a happy hacker and loved it. If his behaviour is that bad, then he is trying to tell you something. I have never ridden anything that felt so safe and as tho I was being looked after so well. Yes, he has a buck in him, yes it comes out of nowhere, but I wouldn't change a hair on his body. Please, please contact a behaviourist or a really experienced Connie owner, or someone out there who can help you.
Having now read your post about scoping, please, please do. All Connies are quirky, but he is definitely trying to tell you something.

 

[kimberleigh]

I can only comment on ground behaviour, as none have ever had any form of backing and seeing as most are unhandled you cant be sure that it isnt purely from lack of handling that some are pretty wild!!

But anyone who has bought connemaras from ireland is more than likely to have one from a mare that has done no more than stand in a field - therefore technically they could be absolutely anything behaviour wise under saddle.

It is the way things are done in ireland with Connemara breeding - rightly or wrongly!

 

[Yuki1290]

They don't tolerate abuse. My guess is he has either been pushed beyong a point he didn't understand (he is only just 4) and flipped, or has a painful stimulus somewhere.

I'd work very slowly and build up his confidence at teeny tiny steps - very few horses are 'bad' just misunderstood or overdone.

This ^^^

I bought my Connie after he had been chucked out in the field for a couple of years and nobody was willing to touch him, after having been sent to a pro that just sent him back! I re-backed him VERY slowly to built his trust in me; we only hacked for a year (first 6 months only walk in company!) and slowly progressed from there. I guess that your boy, like mine, is a sensitive soul and that you might need to take things a bit slowly with him.

Also, please consider the horse that you have in front of you and have known, rather than simply listen to other "people/professionals" words. I heard a lot of horror stories about my Connie that made me wary of him and never matched up to the horse that I had/have! Sometimes horses build stronger bond with their owner than we give them credit for and, therefore, behave differently when with them/someone they trust.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[Laika]

I have a connie x appy and we have had quite a few problems but he's come on leaps and bounds. He was a nightmare throughout winter but now I can honestly say he's my pony of a lifetime. He's taught me an awful lot.

From what I have read my thoughts are; 1. he's either in pain and is trying to tell you this 2. he needs to do some maturing and could do with some time turned away. I think I'd personally start ruling anything out with his health as a priority and then tackle his maturity if nothing shows up. I'm not sure I would put an animal down at this stage without doing any investigating - UNLESS that is what YOU want to do.