Does anyone not hack?

[Eventing2022]

[QUOTE="smolmaus, post: 15001212, member:
If I was in your shoes OP and had the option to box out regularly I would be going to country parks or forestry to hack out rather than going to just a different arena hire. No cars being involved takes a lot of the fear out of it for me. Or bloody cows hiding behind hedges and then basically yelling BOO and racing up the field trying to get me killed[/QUOTE]
Even this is not so pleasant. Local forestry means mountain bikers whizzing about, loose dogs actually chasing and attacking horses, and screaming kids running about.

 

[Cortez]

I haven't hacked for 25+ years. I've mainly worked my horses in arenas (grass and surface), haven't jumped either. I occasionally used to have a little amble about the fields, and when out at shows and displays they would of course be in all sorts of different situations, but actual on-purpose hacking? Nah, not for me. The horses have all been fine.

 

[Auslander]

Regarding your comment about artificial tarmac surfaces, that's not the same at all. Arena surfaces shift considerably underfoot, some more than others, and it is this, combined with always circling/turning that contributes to joint problems. It's a well known fact, backed up with research, that working exclusively on a surface isn't great for horses joints.
If, as your username suggests, you event/want to event - I don't see how you can get your horse fit enough to event without hacking. Without hacking, to do the amount of both steady strength work and fast work that you need to do to get a horse fit enough to event properly is going to mean a lot of work on a surface, on the turn, which isn't good for them - and it's work in all paces on varying terrain that conditions tendons and ligaments. Also, how is your horse going to run cross country if he's not happy/confident out in the real world. Pretty sure you could ask every event rider competing at a high level if their horses hack and you will get a resounding Yes from all of them. It's a really important part of a sport horses workload.
Hacking isn't my favourite thing - but I see it as a necessary evil for getting horses aerobically fit, and conditioning tendons and ligaments.

 

[Eventing2022]

Regarding your comment about artificial tarmac surfaces, that's not the same at all. Arena surfaces shift considerably underfoot, some more than others, and it is this, combined with always circling/turning that contributes to joint problems. It's a well known fact, backed up with research, that working exclusively on a surface isn't great for horses joints.
If, as your username suggests, you event/want to event - I don't see how you can get your horse fit enough to event without hacking. Without hacking, to do the amount of both steady strength work and fast work that you need to do to get a horse fit enough to event properly is going to mean a lot of work on a surface, on the turn, which isn't good for them - and it's work in all paces on varying terrain that conditions tendons and ligaments. Also, how is your horse going to run cross country if he's not happy/confident out in the real world. Pretty sure you could ask every event rider competing at a high level if their horses hack and you will get a resounding Yes from all of them. It's a really important part of a sport horses workload.
Hacking isn't my favourite thing - but I see it as a necessary evil for getting horses aerobically fit, and conditioning tendons and ligaments.

We do and have competed successfully at 80 and 90 actually. Xc schooling, hunter trials, trips to gallops all work fine for a tb at this height and mean he has seen the world enough to get round just fine! The things you see out hacking and the things you see at a xc course are worlds apart!

 

[Auslander]

We do and have competed successfully at 80 and 90 actually. Xc schooling, hunter trials, trips to gallops all work fine for a tb at this height and mean he has seen the world enough to get round just fine! The things you see out hacking and the things you see at a xc course are worlds apart!

I regret the 10 minutes of my life I wasted, trying to help.

 

[Eventing2022]

I regret the 10 minutes of my life I wasted, trying to help.

lol ok! 10 minutes?!

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

I’ve got a couple of warm-bloods that in a previous life didn’t do much if any hacking mainly show-jumping. Both lacked a lot of confidence hacking and practiced spinning, planting and shying until they built up miles and therefore confidence. They’re now horrified if I take them towards the school instead of out hacking as they’ve learnt it’s less effort.

BUT I am in the most fantastic location for teaching them how much fun it can be. I’ve only about 100 metres of roadwork before entering thousands of acres of woodland and Downland rideable in all weathers and a safe (as you can be) place to get them through there tantrums as virtually no traffic, ditches to fall down, barbed wire to get entangled in while they are pratting about. I get off if need be. Now I hack for miles although Edward does love his emotional support dog to lead the way.

At previous yards there were too many hazards to really crack it. No one wants to sit on a horse being an idiot on the road. I certainly wouldn’t be happy riding something out in those circumstances.

 

[Fieldlife]

We do and have competed successfully at 80 and 90 actually. Xc schooling, hunter trials, trips to gallops all work fine for a tb at this height and mean he has seen the world enough to get round just fine! The things you see out hacking and the things you see at a xc course are worlds apart!

Those are mostly all good things to do that involve working on natural surfaces. I do think if you are competing on grass, it is only reasonable to do a reasonable amount of regular training on grass.

Do you not have access to nice hacking? Though I have access to lovely hacking and still met a large lorry, a working tractor and digger and an out of control race horse this morning out hacking!

 

[MuddyMonster]

The things you see out hacking and the things you see at a xc course are worlds apart!

That very much depends on where you hack, I'd say

Out on some of our local routes we come across/have come across dog walkers, cyclists, runners, loud speakers/PA systems, route markers, organised sporting events, people on quad bikes, tractors, farm animals, the hunt, race horses out exercising - the list goes on!

In terms of actual obstacles we cross water, we can paddle in streams, fjords and ponds, we jump ditches and logs, have opportunities to canter up hill, to canter downhill, canter through woodland/fields/heathland ... all of which can be pretty reminiscent of a XC event.

I'm not saying you have to hack to event (or event if you hack) you obviously manage it so if it's working for you then great but I wouldn't dismiss it as being world's apart either

 

[palo1]

The fact that the vast majority of race horses, eventers, and increasingly dressage riders do hack out probably demonstrates that it is valuable both for training and soundness. But if you don't or can't hack your horse out you can do other things to add variety, stamina etc etc. Your horse, your choice really but I wouldn't want to have eventing aspirations if hacking out was an issue because as you go up the levels you need as much variety in both training and potentially for rehab from injury as you can possibly get.

 

[Tarragon]

Before I got my own ponies, I used to regularly ride for other people as I really enjoy hacking so would take out their horses for them; either because they didn't enjoy hacking or because they didn't have the time. Best time of all was when I would ride out for a hunting livery yard just to keep the hunters ticking over between meets!
May not be the solution for you though.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I

I just don't enjoy hacking. On road, off road....wherever. on roads I'm constantly expecting something to happen after friends have had accidents and incidents.
My horse will only hack in company and even then he doesn't seem to particularly enjoy it. He's a very well bred horse and it just seems to do nothing for him
At the moment I force us to go for 30/45 mins once a week. And I feel guilty if I don't. But is there any point?
We have a good varied life. Ride 5 times a week, jump once a week, trailer outings for lessons/clinics/comps once a week, poles, flat....but I really don't want him to go stale!
So does anyone else just not hack and how do you make it work?

I personally don't think you shouldnt if you don't want to. Riding it supposed to be fun for both of you. As long as your not going round in circles all the time!! A friend had a horse that was completely dangerous to hack. She got him fit enough for team chasing. I hack but not sure if horse enjoys it? I'm sure he would just rather go out in the field and eat!

 

[Fieldlife]

I'd be interested to know if the stated rule of thumb has any research behind it - it seems sensible but not necessarily gospel. I would think that a horse ridden in a way that is healthy for them with variety in their work and turnout the rest of the time would be well set up to stay sound without any hacking. Certainly much more so than a horse that had restricted turnout but spend half their working time hacking (hypothetical example, not related to anything anyone has posted!).
Edited to add: I do hack but have had to teach my last two horses how to do it and I didn't enjoy that part at all.

I don’t think it’s hacking versus working on natural surfaces. So could be long lining / schooling / jumping on grass etc.

I don’t think turnout replaces working on natural surfaces. As working under saddle is a lot more intensive than turnout, though turnout has clearly been shown to benefit long term soundness.

 

[ycbm]

turnout has clearly been shown to benefit long term soundness.

Has it?

I'd be interested to see those long term scientific studies, if they exist.

I can find only one small one year old study of one small group of horses from the same location which hasn't, afaik, been peer reviewed, and uses a pretty arbitrary above 12 hours/below 12 hours cutoff and doesn't seem to allow for the fact that horses may be turned out for shorter times because they are working harder, which may account for more soft tissue injury better than less time turned out does.

The UK, ime, is a lot more concerned about turnout than other countries. I'm not aware that there are more injuries associated with that, but I would very much welcome some proper research.
.

 

[SBJT]

I haven't hacked for 25+ years. I've mainly worked my horses in arenas (grass and surface), haven't jumped either. I occasionally used to have a little amble about the fields, and when out at shows and displays they would of course be in all sorts of different situations, but actual on-purpose hacking? Nah, not for me. The horses have all been fine.

Speaking as someone who is forced to use an arena for 6 months of the year with limited outdoor options, I second your point. In the midst of winter it’s either too cold or too dangerous with ice so 85% of horses here end up as only indoor ponies in the winter. I haven’t seen the effects of it really hurting them but it sure does make it interesting in the spring.

 

[Fieldlife]

Has it?

I'd be interested to see those long term scientific studies, if they exist.

I can find only one small one year old study of one small group of horses from the same location which hasn't, afaik, been peer reviewed, and uses a pretty arbitrary above 12 hours/below 12 hours cutoff and doesn't seem to allow for the fact that horses may be turned out for shorter times because they are working harder, which may account for more soft tissue injury better than less time turned out does.

The UK, ime, is a lot more concerned about turnout than other countries. I'm not aware that there are more injuries associated with that, but I would very much welcome some proper research.
.

https://thehorse.com/1101677/turnout-time-can-reduce-horses-risk-of-soft-tissue-injury/

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/conversations-in-equine-science/id1519509568?i=1000566834654

 

[ycbm]

https://thehorse.com/1101677/turnout-time-can-reduce-horses-risk-of-soft-tissue-injury/

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/conversations-in-equine-science/id1519509568?i=1000566834654

That's the study I referred to, small numbers, all in one riding centre, takes no account of differences in the amount and level of work the horses are actually doing, has an arbitrary above/ below 12 hours cut off, doesn't standardise on or analyse by age, and is not peer reviewed.

Proves nothing I'm afraid.

ETA it also isn't the full story. Horses frequently break bones on turnout, especially group turnout, and rarely ever do in a stable, for one example.
.

 

[spotty_pony]

I could change the title of this post to ‘does anyone not school?’ As hacking is all we do these days. It’s so beneficial I couldn’t imagine not doing any at all with a horse. They learn so much from hacking out.

 

[Pmf27]

For a few months I couldn't get my loan pony out on a hack alone, she would nap like crazy and it was just a horrible experience.

As a result, I barely hacked. I was miserable, because it was all I wanted to do. I'd much rather hack than school, though I do enjoy my riding lessons.

 

[ponynutz]

I never used to bc mine wouldn't hack alone for years so she got a day off instead. Never harmed her and she's never had any issues. I'd say going for one occasionally with friends is a good idea to get them out and about in new scenery but they're not humans, all horses I've met have loved some form of routine.

 

[Jango]

I’d ask on the competition section I think you’ll get different answers! Plenty of purpose bred warmbloods just aren’t safe to hack in normal uk hacking conditions, remember Carl Hester won’t be navigating A roads, cyclists, bin lorries etc, when they say hacking it will be around their property. So they can control the obstacles. Not many SJers hack or do much turnout, it does make me sad for the horses but it doesn’t seem to cause issues for them. The vast majority of cobs/ponies/all rounder types etc will be fine to hack as long as they are taught properly.

Personally I love hacking and exploring, but I couldn’t do it every day and I wouldn’t love it if it was just roads. I prefer hacking alone, I don’t mind company occasionally but I have to talk to people constantly at work and actually some quiet down time out hacking is wonderful!

if you just don’t like hacking I’d suck it up once or twice a week, but if it isn’t safe then I would focus on varying surfaces as much as possible and incorporating training that doesn’t involve circles as much as you can.

 

[scats]

Personally I get every horse out hacking. I think it’s a great way to get them to encounter new things, go on different terrain and just gives them something different to see and do.
I’ve got some seriously nappy horses to be happy hacking alone and all of them ended up loving it. Millie used to treat the neighbours to a full on rearing display, but now happily hacks out on the lane and roads with no issues. It’s a fair bit of work to get them through it, but so worth it. I also find that hacking strengthens my relationship with a horse in general.

 

[ycbm]

Personally I get every horse out hacking. I think it’s a great way to get them to encounter new things, go on different terrain and just gives them something different to see and do.
I’ve got some seriously nappy horses to be happy hacking alone and all of them ended up loving it. Millie used to treat the neighbours to a full on rearing display, but now happily hacks out on the lane and roads with no issues. It’s a fair bit of work to get them through it, but so worth it. I also find that hacking strengthens my relationship with a horse in general.

I could have written this, and would have, before I met the one horse I've ever owned who genuinely hated being taken off the yard under his own steam (as opposed to in a lorry). He was better taken to a new place but you can only go to a new place once! When he died at 10 after 6 years of ownership and hacking training, I was about to admit defeat and never hack him again. If he'd lived, he would have breathed a huge sigh of relief.

There really are horses who can't be trained to like it, only to reluctantly accept it.
.

 

[scats]

I could have written this, and would have, before I met the one horse I've ever owned who genuinely hated being taken off the yard under his own steam (as opposed to in a lorry). He was better taken to a new place but you can only go to a new place once! When he died at 10 after 6 years of ownership and hacking training, I was about to admit defeat and never hack him again. If he'd lived, he would have breathed a huge sigh of relief.

There really are horses who can't be trained to like it, only to reluctantly accept it.
.

Oh I totally agree, there are bound to be those out there. I’ve just been lucky in that 30 years of ownership (and a lot of horses), I’ve not met one yet. I’ve definitely had those that are less enthusiastic about it than others, mind.
I do find, however, that some people who say their horses hate hacking seem to end up with lots of horses who hate hacking. That’s when I think there might be a common denominator at play.

 

[Peglo]

I didn’t much enjoy solo hacking when my horse didn’t enjoy it. She was great in company. But we’ve persevered this year, sometimes we’d meet up with other horses on our hack and sometimes we’d go alone. But now my mare is so much more confident and happy to hack I’m back to loving it. I enjoy a lesson but without someone there I’m useless at schooling so I’m delighted to have something we enjoy doing. There’s nothing quite like a good gallop on the beach or grassy track.

 

[cauda equina]

I've never had one that wouldn't hack, and a couple who seem to positively enjoy it
Instead of hanging towards home they hang away from home as if keen to explore

 

[ycbm]

I do find, however, that some people who say their horses hate hacking seem to end up with lots of horses who hate hacking. That’s when I think there might be a common denominator at play.

Absolutely agree. I've also seen people who always seem to have horses that are bad in traffic, even if they weren't when they were bought.
.

 

[ycbm]

I've never had one that wouldn't hack, and a couple who seem to positively enjoy it
Instead of hanging towards home they hang away from home as if keen to explore

I had one once who would march straight past the gate and carry on up the road!
.

 

[Barton Bounty]

All horses I have had as an adult, I have had to teach to hack, its just perseverance at the end of the day ?

 

[Auslander]

I’d ask on the competition section I think you’ll get different answers! Plenty of purpose bred warmbloods just aren’t safe to hack in normal uk hacking conditions, remember Carl Hester won’t be navigating A roads, cyclists, bin lorries etc, when they say hacking it will be around their property.

Not sure he's the best example, as his horses have very normal lives, and hack on just the same roads as most "normal" horses do! Probably not A roads, but you wouldn't catch me hacking on an A road either! Not denying that some competition horses don't get hacked, but a lot do, despite their breeding!

I've worked for a few Olympic/high level riders. We did a lot of hacking, and the horses were expected to get on with it in the face of "terrifying" stuff, far more so than amateur horses.

I cant speak for showjumping, as I've never worked in that sector - but eventing, everything hacked for up to 2 hours a day to condition their legs, and the dressage horses all went out a couple of times a week - we even galloped some of them when ground conditions were good!