Does everyone crate train??

SavingGrace

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 April 2010
Messages
1,595
Location
West Lothian
Visit site
I crate my dog overnight... He actually goes through there on his own when he decides its his bedtime... Its his bedroom, his cubby hole, somewhere he feels safe... You could easily fit 3 of him in his crate! He has a big comfy bed in there and his toys! It is never used as punishment!

During then day he has a free run of the sitting room, kitchen and his den under the stairs where his crate is... We tried taking the crate out once he had settled with us and just had the bed in there but he wouldn't settle.. he won't even settle at night with the door open and wines until you go and lock it... he is a rescue dog found on the streets of Wakefield and was rescued from the pound he went to a rescue centre in glasgow for 3 - 4 weeks before we brought him home and he has found comfort in the crate from day dot so has obviously been used to one in the past.
 

cobgirlie

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 November 2010
Messages
530
Visit site
Re read and I was my no means having a go at anyone mind u, just describing a difference of scenarios.:)

I'm glad you said that because as I'm damn sure you know I do not have the 'luxury' of picking and choosing the dogs I take in, I just happen to work full time in a paid job as well as work full time in this un-paid role so don't think a working home is a place for a puppy, I assume you agree with that or does your rescue rehome puppies to working homes? Luckily we have a solid reliable and dedicated team of foster homes who don't work so they take on the puppy's leaving me open to take the less 'cute' easy animals. I also take on dogs with behavioural issues,:rolleyes: (really you think we have a rescue that only has nice quiet well behaved dogs handed in..please show me the rescue that has that and I'll work for them!) 6 of my own were due to be PTS if I hadn't taken them. I just happen to be lucky to have an amazing secure and confident pack who have the ability to show new dogs the correct way to behave, therefore removing the need to separate and cage them.

I knew I should have kept out of this subject too many people have such blinkered opinions.
 

TGM

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 April 2003
Messages
16,465
Location
South East
Visit site
Judging from some of the replies, many people who are opposed to crates don't really have a true understanding of how they are meant to be used. Just because some people use them incorrectly doesn't mean crates are wrong!

We crate-trained our puppy from day one, following guidance from a puppy training book. To start with we used a plastic cat carrier that could be moved from room to room. Pup would sleep in that overnight, and during the day when I couldn't give her full supervision. Because it was portable I could have it by my feet if I was working on the computer, or in the kitchen if I was cooking, so pup never felt it was a place that she was put in just to be left on her own. I thought of it as being like a cot for a baby - somewhere she could sleep safely and I knew that if she woke up without me noticing she couldn't be getting into mischief or danger. The idea was that when she was out of the crate she could be given full attention and any undesirable behaviour such as chewing or soiling in the house could be corrected straightaway. The result was that she learnt very quickly and needed to be confined to the crate less and less.

As she got bigger we upgraded to a mesh crate which was put in the kitchen under a corner of the worktop - this created a very cosy den-like feel. For a while she was still shut in the crate when I went out (which would only be for an hour or so) and overnight, but as she got older the door could be left open. Interestingly, as soon as I picked up my keys and handbag she would pop herself in the crate automatically! We still retained the crate because it was still handy to have somewhere to shut her in on occasions - for example if the back door and gate were left open whilst bulky items were being delivered, or if someone visited who was scared of dogs. We don't have the luxury of a utility room and our ground floor is quite open plan, so the crate is the mini version of a utility room for us! Also I have found that most dogs prefer the den-like feel of a crate - we often have other dogs come to stay and they bring their own beds with them, but still end up trying to nick our dog's crate!

If we ever get another puppy I will definitely be crate-training it again!
 

Dormouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 January 2011
Messages
236
Visit site
I knew I should have kept out of this subject too many people have such blinkered opinions.

How to win friends and influence people :confused: Having kept out of this thread until now, I have read the whole thing and cannot understand your confrontational attitude cobgirlie. Cayla is well known on here as being an expert in her field, and whilst I completely accept that everyone can always learn something new, I find that Cayla puts her point of view across clearly and concisely but does not feel the need to ram her point of view down other peoples throats?

Personally I do not 'crate train' as such - I just use a crate as and when needed for my new rescues :) Sometimes I will crate a new rescue when I go out and leave them with the others for the first week or so; it very much depends on the dog, Amy didnt need that at all :)
 

cobgirlie

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 November 2010
Messages
530
Visit site
How to win friends and influence people :confused: Having kept out of this thread until now, I have read the whole thing and cannot understand your confrontational attitude cobgirlie. Cayla is well known on here as being an expert in her field, and whilst I completely accept that everyone can always learn something new, I find that Cayla puts her point of view across clearly and concisely but does not feel the need to ram her point of view down other peoples throats?

Personally I do not 'crate train' as such - I just use a crate as and when needed for my new rescues :) Sometimes I will crate a new rescue when I go out and leave them with the others for the first week or so; it very much depends on the dog, Amy didnt need that at all :)

Really???? Damn right she's clear and consise...very very clear in her attack and insuation. I WILL NOT stand back and let some person who doesn't know me make rude and damn right incorrect comments without responding.

The only 'ramming' I've seen is from those who cage their dogs. All I said was I agreed with one poster and left it at that, I'm sorry I haven't bleated with the rest of the herd but it so happens I'm perfectly able to make my own decisions and omg I might just not agree with you...so does it bother you that much???

It was Cayla who insinuated that I pick and choose the foster dogs I take in (HA HA) and how lucky I was to not have to have puppys to foster .....responsible here really shouldn't put dogs before myself now should I. :rolleyes: Say what you want about me as a person but come on and attack my passion and principles and I'll rip you a new one. :mad:
 

Dormouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 January 2011
Messages
236
Visit site
"An expert is someone widely recognized as a reliable source of technique or skill whose faculty for judging or deciding rightly, justly, or wisely is accorded authority and status by their peers or the public in a specific well-distinguished domain. An expert, more generally, is a person with extensive knowledge or ability based on research, experience, or occupation and in a particular area of study"

(Wikipedia - admittedly a pretty rubbish source to reference!)


I cannot be bothered to continue with this discussion, you are extremely rude and need to go on an anger management course cobgirlie ..... as it is, you are going on user ignore so I dont have to read your replies
 

cobgirlie

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 November 2010
Messages
530
Visit site
"An expert is someone widely recognized as a reliable source of technique or skill whose faculty for judging or deciding rightly, justly, or wisely is accorded authority and status by their peers or the public in a specific well-distinguished domain. An expert, more generally, is a person with extensive knowledge or ability based on research, experience, or occupation and in a particular area of study"

(Wikipedia - admittedly a pretty rubbish source to reference!)


I cannot be bothered to continue with this discussion, you are extremely rude and need to go on an anger management course cobgirlie ..... as it is, you are going on user ignore so I dont have to read your replies

Okay bye then..shame you are not able to speak for yourself though, would have preferred to hear exactly what qualifies Cayla as the all seeing 'expert' in all things doggie..but I'm sure she'll be on to speak for herself, well I hope she'll come on and qualify her comments and explain her attitude to someone who has tried to help her in the past.
 

Spudlet

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 April 2009
Messages
19,800
Visit site
You know, the reason I used to come on this bit was that people could have a discussion and differences of opinion without having a row - shame that is no longer possible. I'm off too - there's really no point to this place any more if all that's going to happen is that people get a new one ripped every time they disagree with someone else.:(
 

MurphysMinder

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2006
Messages
17,771
Location
Shropshire
Visit site
Cobgirlie, Cayla did add a second post explaining she wasn't having a go at anyone so I think you have overreacted a bit with talk of ripping people a new one!
People involved in rescue tend to be very passionate about their job, understandably, but if my 50 odd years of living with dogs has taught me one thing it is that there is always something new to be learned and opinions to be changed, and I will always keep an open mind to other peoples opinions.
 

cobgirlie

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 November 2010
Messages
530
Visit site
Cobgirlie, Cayla did add a second post explaining she wasn't having a go at anyone so I think you have overreacted a bit with talk of ripping people a new one!
People involved in rescue tend to be very passionate about their job, understandably, but if my 50 odd years of living with dogs has taught me one thing it is that there is always something new to be learned and opinions to be changed, and I will always keep an open mind to other peoples opinions.

I am extreamly opened minded and if people cared to read I did put that I understood others need to use cages AND I do have one in the house so I'm sure why they felt the need to attack me and my dogs and my work??? I've worked long and bloody hard to ensure the dogs in my care do not need to be caged away from the house and it's occupants and for someone who I actually though might just understand the horrible daily battle we have, by line excusing her comments or not, I'm deeply offend and extreamly angry she felt the need to make sarcastic remarks..but it's okay cos she didn't mean it. So yes I will be defensive and I will fight back...don't work in rescue as long as I have without learning to give it back. It's hard enough without those who actually are supposed to working for the same team get clever, but then again I guess I should also be used to that as rescue seems to attract alot of egos.

Bowing out as Spudlet said there really is no point. I do hope Cayla finds the time to come and openly comment on why she felt the need to respond in such a manner.
 

TGM

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 April 2003
Messages
16,465
Location
South East
Visit site
Am I missing something? I've just read through Cayla's post and I really can't see what is quite so offensive about it! I'm convinced people sometimes see insults and attacks where none were actually intended on this forum.:cool:
 

MurphysMinder

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2006
Messages
17,771
Location
Shropshire
Visit site
Am I missing something? I've just read through Cayla's post and I really can't see what is quite so offensive about it! I'm convinced people sometimes see insults and attacks where none were actually intended on this forum.:cool:

I've just done exactly the same, no where can I see that Cayla has attacked you Cobgirlie. The only time you are mentioned is when she says that unlike you she doesn't kennel rescues at her home.
As to Cayla coming on and replying, I am sure she will, but I suspect her post last night was return whilst she was on nights, and she is probably catching up on her sleep at the moment.
 

cobgirlie

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 November 2010
Messages
530
Visit site
Crates do have a fab use, and some may never need them, they have been a god sent for us as a rescue, (why I started using them) also more dogs would be pts if crates where not available.
Unlike cobgirl, I would not kennel a rescue at my home, I dont take in "straight forward" cases, I take in dogs that need behavioural guidance and dogs with aggression (maybe towards other dogs), usually big [unacceptable term removed] capable of alot of damage:p and to kennel them would heighten their aggression/stress, so to either leave them to run of my doggy room or crate them to keep other dogs safe (then that is what I do) I also dont have the luxury no to take puppies:( so again for (safety) they are crated, the pups we let go are also 100% clean (you cannot say that for all rescues ;) it also means the owner does not have to tackle to whole "crate training issues" sleepless nights, urinating, deficating, because I did it before they went (no laziness on my behalf either) it's bloody hard work.
We let alot of puppies go to homes with adult dogs, so again the crate is a good place to keep the puppy safe but keep the dogs together when unsupervised.
Again, the difference between a dog that has been crated or not when we have them in at work (is very apparent) even though I do not need to crate my own dogs I still think crates are invaluable.


Translated : 'she takes in easy dogs with no behavioural issues and I'm a saint because I take in the nasty horrid creatures no one wants and how terrible putting a dog with behavioural issues in a kennel'...although hold one its a heated kennel with run, canine company and one to one professional behavioural training:rolleyes:...cos she knows me and my rescue how???? Plus all the photos I've seen on this site and her 'rescue' site don't look like killer beasties or are those just the nice ones rolled out for the camera?

'she can pick and choose the dogs because we are so good we never turn a needy dog from our doors'...as explained I WORK FULL TIME so you suggest how that is an ideal home foster home for a puppy?????


'her rescue puppies are obviously dirty creatures not house trained and just handed out without any form of training'...again she knows this how???


Maybe I'm reading into the comments I'm sure they were completely innocent....
 
Last edited by a moderator:

MurphysMinder

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2006
Messages
17,771
Location
Shropshire
Visit site
You are reading the whole paragraph as being directed as you, I suspect many others, like me, will have read the first part of the first sentence "Unlike Cobgirlie I would not kennel a rescue at my home" as being in comparison to you, and the rest as just a general description of how her rescue works. She even goes as far as saying it is not aimed at anyone in particular, so I think your translation is perhaps taken as a personal attack because as you admit you have had grief in the past and have had to "give it back". I can imagine working full time and having a number of rescues is a pretty tough job so can understand you are perhaps under pressure but yes I do think you are reading things into the comments that aren't there (and I realise your last sentence was meant to be tongue in cheek).
Just to add, I am pretty sure Cayla's mum does kennel her rescues, so I don't for a minute think Cayla is against rescues being kennelled per se.
 

blackcob

🖖
Joined
20 March 2007
Messages
12,161
Location
Shropshire
Visit site
I think you need be careful in interpreting Cayla's somewhat errant grammar (*ducks* :p) because to me that reads:

"Unlike cobgirl, I would not kennel a rescue at my home. I don't take in "straightforward" cases, I take in dogs that need behavioural guidance and dogs with aggression (maybe towards other dogs), usually big [unacceptable term removed] capable of a lot of damage and to kennel them would heighten their aggression/stress, so to either leave them to run of my doggy room or crate them to keep other dogs safe (then that is what I do)."

She is explaining why she takes a different approach.

Again, with the puppies bit I interpreted it as being a totally new paragraph, nothing to do with cobgirl, just pointing out that she gets in a lot of puppies and crate training is a good solution for having them all clean and safe by the time they are rehomed.

Personally I use a crate because the alternative would be thousands of pounds worth of damage, not sure why everyone's so tetchy about it. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Alec Swan

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 October 2009
Messages
21,080
Location
Norfolk.
Visit site
Translated : .......Maybe I'm reading into the comments I'm sure they were completely innocent....

cobgirlie,

I'm quite sure that you have misunderstood the previous posts. For me, one of the pleasures of this particular section of the forum, is that I've rarely read a word, which has been spoken in anger. We don't always agree, but that's because, in the main, we're a bunch of knowalls!!:)

The original question was about crate training. For me, it is a complete anathema. I've never done it, and I never will. However, there will, without question, be those dogs, and those situations, where a crate may be the only practical answer. If I dealt with dogs, on a short term basis, then I suppose that I may consider it an option.

I don't agree with Cayla's thoughts on "crating". That doesn't make either of us, right or wrong. We don't agree, but then we both accept that!!

As I get ever older, I see people do things with dogs which fill me with horror. I never have, and never will use food as an inducement. People wearing little bags, on a belt, dishing out titbits, when the dog pleases them, is beyond me. The point is, that they sometimes achieve results. Who am I to sit in judgement, just because it's something which I don't agree with?

I feel certain that you've misunderstood the previous posts.

Alec.
 

brighteyes

Pooh-Bah
Joined
13 August 2006
Messages
13,013
Location
Well north of Watford
Visit site
Alec yes, but a bed is a bit more 'open plan' and less private. I share a bathroom with the family, but I am glad it has a door!

Until this dog I never considered using one but now wonder why did I never think of it before! If you use them properly, they are invaluable. She never seems upset when she is in it and never explodes out of it either. I am certain she appreciates her 'den'.
 

cobgirlie

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 November 2010
Messages
530
Visit site
So I put it down to someone not knowing where a comma or full stop is to be used? I'll wait for her to explain the comments herself before reading more into it. Having it clarified that is her mother that runs the rescue helps, I'd prefer her mother to come and comment on another rescues methods and fostering procedures in that case as I presume she will have a more experienced outlook.

And just to clarify I don't just have rescue dogs (well I do but those are my dogs) I assist running a rescue and the dogs in my care in my home are foster or over flow dogs that otherwise we'd have to turn away as we only have 7 kennels available. The rescue is run by a private family who only rehome in the local area, we have been operating for 35 years, I've been involved for 25 and even now certainly wouldn't ever pretend to know what I'm doing or call myself an expert of any manner. We've rehomed 100's if not 1000's of dogs and working with many other reputable rescues moved dogs to rescues who can rehome for us. And we do not need to advertise, we do not ask for money or fundraising because our community and private founder are wonderful enough to support us 100%. I certainly do take offence very easily and will defend it passionately. I'm extreamly proud of my partnership with this rescue and the family who run it go above and beyond anyone I've ever met in this god awful vocation. And anyone questions our methods and I will expect a explanation to why.

While you may read the comments not directed at me if my user name is the only one written then why would I not be the one the post is about? She quiet obviously realised the comments would be taken badly otherwise why write a half hearted foot note?
 

CAYLA

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 January 2007
Messages
17,392
Location
in bed...mostly!!!
Visit site
Fooking nora, Im having to scroll back fast jsut to see the "insults flung my way" :D and indeed how the written word or a comment someone has acutally took to heart that was not even aimed at them (makes me think is this some sort of paranoia)
Cobgirl I know u rescue and I damn well know all rescues "work" different methods, AM I NOT ALLOWED?, a different method without being accused of being a friggin Saint, up me arse, a liar practically (portraying angelic like set up's) in pictures.
I only bloody explained why I do not put rescues in kennels :confused: what in the hell does that have to do with what you do? my reply was was meant as some cases i.e a DDB x staff with severe aggression (my example of not straight forward), would you leave this type of dog with yours whilst you popped out an hour after taking it in, or at all:confused: and it was for the attention of the OP (not you) actually, or others on the post that maybe thought (why can't all rescue dogs be put in kennels?), we do KENNEL rescues (at the rescue), I just don't personally in my home, because Im working with their behaviour and being in a kennel (I PERSONALLY FIND) does not help, and we predominantly rehome into homes where the dog will live indoors! so again me having the dog indoors helps me help the owner to intergrate the dog in better (christ we all know as rescues), dogs are returned for as little and as natural as barking in the back garden at someone passing by the fence) let alone anything else more taxing.

I also take alot of greyhounds to cat test/train them and placing them in a kennel, serves no purpose, as (my cats dont live in a kennel):confused: crating them indoors whilst they are here means they can see my cats every second they are here as they are roaming right by them. (when you train greys) maybe you still use kennels?

If I take a dog from a pound that has been kenneled and is a (put to sleep) because it's aggressive and attacking other dogs through a kennel/barrier for aslong as a year, how on earth is me putting it in a kennel going to help it's aggression:confused:, esp as it would be kenneled beside dogs still, (my own dogs) as I have 4 kenneled, why would I want to put a dog that will lunge at them everytime they step out of their own door:confused:
Not to mention my neighbours dismay at a new dog (not used to a kennel) screaming the place down) which then puts any rescue at all in jeopardy, as I would have complaints against me.

I have a very laid back pack (you have seen pics/videos) oops sorry (you have seen well framed set up's and photo shops of them):rolleyes:, but I also have a duty of care to protect them, I will not bring a staff x mastiff in here and pop out leaving it running with mine when I have taken it in because it's maimed or killed other dogs, that would be highly irrisponsible of me (no matter how superbly well behaved my dogs are), they can not be expected to "play dead" whilst a dog rives them apart. (and yes mine to where put to sleeps) but I was not aware it was a competittion.:confused:

CB, just from reading your many replies and insults towards me, im lead to believe now you always had an issue with me?, as some of the things you have wrote are like some pent up blow out :eek: (so that exactly how im going to take it) as like others have suggested this post was IN NO WAY HAVING A POP AT YOU) believe me!!, and the puppy comment, had a sad face at the end for a reason, I do not like taking puppies in, (they are bloody hard work, and need to be crated )again I do not have a kennel for puppies and I cannot toilet train them in a kenneled environment, and I will not leave them with my dogs to crawl all over them when im not here, again very unfair of me to do so. (again, they would be handed back pretty sharp for being dirty in a home) in alot of cases (as mentioned), people for some reason expect to much from puppies/dog) from a rescued environemt, so I try and make te transittions as easy as I can to stop the dog being returned and give the owner "no excuse".

I know the pups I rehome remain or are clean because I keep in contact with the owners and actually ask :confused: (so thats was a strange question):confused:

Should I have took the "me casa, su casa" (sp) bit from your post and said something like "how dare you say my home is not my dogs" are you some kind of saint and im not because my rescues and my dogs dont all roam together" how damn well dare you! no I did not because it's your home not mine.

Also do you want me to show you videos of dogs fighting, as to your comment of, all the dogs looks pretty laid well behaved in any vid/pic I show) I actually take that as a (compliment) by the way, as that is exactly what we aid for:D, and no I personally don't see many rescue that have so many dogs together free playing, they are usually in rows upon rows of kennels and seperated till the day they are rehomed. (I totally understand that too) but its not for me.
We are contacted by other rescues if im to be honest our number given out in regard to "aggressive dogs" so I do believe not all rescues deal with behavioural issues (not that im saying your don't)

Anyhow, Im taking my saintly self off to get some plastic cladding for our doggy room, that has crates in it) :D:p

Ps I don't deem myself an expert in the field lol! but I do try my best to help people with issues with their dogs, which is better than no answer at all except, ah, they will grow out of it, or ah let them out every 5 mins or, ah dont worry, it's ok saying dont's use something (like me, I dont need to crate mine) but it will not stop me giving advice as how best to use a training impliment or why not (in some detail)!!!!DISCLAIMER!!!! (NOT AIMED AT ANYONE) in particular.

Im also baffled and did chuckle a bit at the "cayla Im glad you said blah blahh" but then still proceeded into a full on rant.:confused:
 
Last edited:

cobgirlie

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 November 2010
Messages
530
Visit site
I don't know you, as I said knowing now your mother runs the rescue says alot. As I said if she'd like to come on the forum..I assume she supports and reads your post regarding rescue issues?

I'm not quiet sure why you feel I've got some problem with you in any other incident :confused: maybe that's your paranoia about a situation that is unresolved or hasn't been dealt with accordingly and that's obviously not something I can assist you with?

I can't be arsed to comment on the rest of your 'rant' to be honest I've said what I think and oh dear have your read something in my comments that offended you?

I wish your mum continued success with her rescue and applaud her work, she obviously does fabulous work with dogs.
 

Spudlet

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 April 2009
Messages
19,800
Visit site
I don't know you, as I said knowing now your mother runs the rescue says alot. As I said if she'd like to come on the forum..I assume she supports and reads your post regarding rescue issues?

I'm not quiet sure why you feel I've got some problem with you in any other incident :confused: maybe that's your paranoia about a situation that is unresolved or hasn't been dealt with accordingly and that's obviously not something I can assist you with?

I can't be arsed to comment on the rest of your 'rant' to be honest I've said what I think and oh dear have your read something in my comments that offended you?

I wish your mum continued success with her rescue and applaud her work, she obviously does fabulous work with dogs.

Wind your neck in love...:rolleyes:
 

CAYLA

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 January 2007
Messages
17,392
Location
in bed...mostly!!!
Visit site
I don't know you, as I said knowing now your mother runs the rescue says alot. As I said if she'd like to come on the forum..I assume she supports and reads your post regarding rescue issues?

I'm not quiet sure why you feel I've got some problem with you in any other incident :confused: maybe that's your paranoia about a situation that is unresolved or hasn't been dealt with accordingly and that's obviously not something I can assist you with?

I can't be arsed to comment on the rest of your 'rant' to be honest I've said what I think and oh dear have your read something in my comments that offended you?

I wish your mum continued success with her rescue and applaud her work, she obviously does fabulous work with dogs.

CB, I thinking now, you never read my first reply, as you cannot be bothered to read this:rolleyes:
It is indeed my mams rescue, and I will indeed get her to come on the forum, she needs to anyhow to thank those who have been involved in the hoodies, she is technophobe, but still I will get her on here (it will be like the RTE and SB post in SB) where Rosies mam came on LMAO:D but it that what makes you happy, I will do it.
Im not offended at all by the way, you complimented me aswell as slating, Im a big girl, I prefer my debates to be face to face, the spoken word for me is always better than the written.

By the way CB, do you use any rescue forums?, I have indeed taken very difficult dogs from them (I wont put it on the forum) but the pics of the dogs and the scenarios they where taken from b4 they came to me, this may give you some evidence you so desperately seek;)
 
Last edited:
Top