TPO
🤠🏴
I didn't want to derail the current livery thread so I've started this to ask some of the random thoughts floating about inside my fairly empty noggin.
"Back in the day" having a horse was a luxury item and there were a lot less people with horses than there are these days. The culture of horse ownership seems to have changed a lot even in my lifetime (I'm 37). Horses appear to be so easily got and aren't terrifically expensive to buy based on the disposable income of many. Comparing the cost of keeping a horse to have at your disposal full time often works out cheaper, in monetary terms only, than a couple of hours at a riding school weekly.
As more people have horses the demand for livery has increased however there is a finite amount of land in the UK with a LOT of that being turned into housing. Climate Change seems to be a real thing in so far as seasons, and the weather within those seasons, seem to be merging into one; certainly in Scotland! I haven't fact checked and can't reference sources but I'm sure in the past couple of years all sorts of records for rainfall have been broken plus we seem to be experiencing a lot more extreme weather like the recent storms.
The weather impacts on keeping horses from producing hay, straw & grain and the price that we pay for it, grass growth and the management of land. As the weather turns wetter fields are damaged and it appears that more and more yards either don't offer winter turnout or it is severely reduced (either in the field or an all weather turnout set up). In turn more forage is required for horses in longer and/or when there is no grass.
It's widely accepted that stabling 24/7 isn't a fair way to keep a horse but more and more it appears that choice is being removed. So what happens, do you just not have a horse if you can't keep it appropriately? Then who decides what is appropriate because there are people who keep their horses in 24/7 through choice despite turnout being available.
If the future is no winter turnout is it fair to keep horses simply because we want them despite not being able to meet their needs?
With the horse ownership numbers ever increasing will there be a saturation point? Will there be a time when there simply aren't spaces at yards or space for yards?
A few yards in my area were owned and run by non-horsey people/farmers. If some horses = some money then more horses = more money. You can see their logic!
One example I know of is a yard that started off with 20ish horses and each field group had a winter and summer paddock to swap between April/May time and Sep/Nov time. More stables were built and as the numbers hit 35+ it changed to one field that was to be managed by the field group year round. The last I heard there were even more horses and now the fields were smaller to fit everyone in. So already you've gone from rested ground to ground that doesn't get a break and then the size has been reduced. As a livery you work out the pros and cons of staying vs going and given the lack of good alternatives most people have no choice but to accept the changing terms.
So that's another consideration. It's fine to say that "you are the customer" but if you need to buy livery and there are very few shops selling livery what do you do? People accept less because they need livery and then that become the norm. There is no incentive for yards to invest money or change because they are already full and have a waiting list.
Circling back (FYI never used that term in my life before) to what I perceive to be a change in people getting horses before they really know enough to have that responsibility [puts on tin hat] it means they don't know enough to know that something isn't good. Therefore when someone with legit concerns raises them it's very easy to dismiss them down when Beginner Belinda, Novice Norman and Just Want what Cheapest Chris are the personification of ignorance is bliss.
It's often suggested on here that people "find a hill" and turn a horse away and I've often wondered where all these hills are. Farmland seems to be going for housing at an alarming rate in the livery areas that I know of. The chances of chapping doors and finding a farmer willing to rent out a few acres is a real rarity in these areas too. Are there lots of hills and horse loving farmers (if such a thing exists!?) out there just waiting to have a few corner acres destroyed with hooves?
I appreciate that there will be yards running just now that will manage just fine. They had adequate acreage and are well managed but whilst their costs are their costs not many "average joe's" can afford 1k a month* on a livery bill. So does it go back to only people with a lot of disposable income being able to keep horses? *someone posted links to beautiful dream yards on a post and that was one of them. Facilities were second to none and I believe it was close to London.
I know how soul destroying being on a bad yard can be and how distressing it can be trying to find something better when there really isn't much out there. I never found the magic answer and I'm beyond fortunate that the olds now have land. Even that isn't without it's fair share of issues, massive costs in maintenance and improvements but the pros outweigh the cons. Despite it having been talked about for years I didn't think that it was ever going to actually happen and was all but ready to give up horses because I was struggling with the livery aspect of it; all horse related not people. I'm not saying that money wasn't an issue but I certainly would have paid through the nose for a decent place and made do without esses like food and electricity
"Back in the day" having a horse was a luxury item and there were a lot less people with horses than there are these days. The culture of horse ownership seems to have changed a lot even in my lifetime (I'm 37). Horses appear to be so easily got and aren't terrifically expensive to buy based on the disposable income of many. Comparing the cost of keeping a horse to have at your disposal full time often works out cheaper, in monetary terms only, than a couple of hours at a riding school weekly.
As more people have horses the demand for livery has increased however there is a finite amount of land in the UK with a LOT of that being turned into housing. Climate Change seems to be a real thing in so far as seasons, and the weather within those seasons, seem to be merging into one; certainly in Scotland! I haven't fact checked and can't reference sources but I'm sure in the past couple of years all sorts of records for rainfall have been broken plus we seem to be experiencing a lot more extreme weather like the recent storms.
The weather impacts on keeping horses from producing hay, straw & grain and the price that we pay for it, grass growth and the management of land. As the weather turns wetter fields are damaged and it appears that more and more yards either don't offer winter turnout or it is severely reduced (either in the field or an all weather turnout set up). In turn more forage is required for horses in longer and/or when there is no grass.
It's widely accepted that stabling 24/7 isn't a fair way to keep a horse but more and more it appears that choice is being removed. So what happens, do you just not have a horse if you can't keep it appropriately? Then who decides what is appropriate because there are people who keep their horses in 24/7 through choice despite turnout being available.
If the future is no winter turnout is it fair to keep horses simply because we want them despite not being able to meet their needs?
With the horse ownership numbers ever increasing will there be a saturation point? Will there be a time when there simply aren't spaces at yards or space for yards?
A few yards in my area were owned and run by non-horsey people/farmers. If some horses = some money then more horses = more money. You can see their logic!
One example I know of is a yard that started off with 20ish horses and each field group had a winter and summer paddock to swap between April/May time and Sep/Nov time. More stables were built and as the numbers hit 35+ it changed to one field that was to be managed by the field group year round. The last I heard there were even more horses and now the fields were smaller to fit everyone in. So already you've gone from rested ground to ground that doesn't get a break and then the size has been reduced. As a livery you work out the pros and cons of staying vs going and given the lack of good alternatives most people have no choice but to accept the changing terms.
So that's another consideration. It's fine to say that "you are the customer" but if you need to buy livery and there are very few shops selling livery what do you do? People accept less because they need livery and then that become the norm. There is no incentive for yards to invest money or change because they are already full and have a waiting list.
Circling back (FYI never used that term in my life before) to what I perceive to be a change in people getting horses before they really know enough to have that responsibility [puts on tin hat] it means they don't know enough to know that something isn't good. Therefore when someone with legit concerns raises them it's very easy to dismiss them down when Beginner Belinda, Novice Norman and Just Want what Cheapest Chris are the personification of ignorance is bliss.
It's often suggested on here that people "find a hill" and turn a horse away and I've often wondered where all these hills are. Farmland seems to be going for housing at an alarming rate in the livery areas that I know of. The chances of chapping doors and finding a farmer willing to rent out a few acres is a real rarity in these areas too. Are there lots of hills and horse loving farmers (if such a thing exists!?) out there just waiting to have a few corner acres destroyed with hooves?
I appreciate that there will be yards running just now that will manage just fine. They had adequate acreage and are well managed but whilst their costs are their costs not many "average joe's" can afford 1k a month* on a livery bill. So does it go back to only people with a lot of disposable income being able to keep horses? *someone posted links to beautiful dream yards on a post and that was one of them. Facilities were second to none and I believe it was close to London.
I know how soul destroying being on a bad yard can be and how distressing it can be trying to find something better when there really isn't much out there. I never found the magic answer and I'm beyond fortunate that the olds now have land. Even that isn't without it's fair share of issues, massive costs in maintenance and improvements but the pros outweigh the cons. Despite it having been talked about for years I didn't think that it was ever going to actually happen and was all but ready to give up horses because I was struggling with the livery aspect of it; all horse related not people. I'm not saying that money wasn't an issue but I certainly would have paid through the nose for a decent place and made do without esses like food and electricity
