does it annoy anyone else when you see ......

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sophiebailey

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..... all manner of people at competitions (this is something I observed last night) who are jumping their horses/ponies in what I would call fairly strong bits (eg Gag's on the last ring, pelhams etc) but then have spurs on their boots and schooling whips? I feel very sorry for the poor horses ... they're being encouraged forwards by strong aids from behind into a bit that doesn't want them to move forwards as fast as the spurs are telling them too :( it can't be comfortable for them :(

I also saw a few people jumping in standing martingales which I always thought was a big no no!

Why do you think people over tack for events like this? I can wholly understand wanting a running martingale to jump in so as you have a neck strap to hold onto, but what's with all this extra?!

Might just be me having a moaning old poobag morning, just felt quite confused by it all last night!

Anyone else seen this and gotten annoyed?
 
Nope, I assume its for a reason. My daughter jumps her pony in a waterford gag as he leans & is very strong but has to also wear spurs as he does not always listen to her leg. The spurs aren't used to make him go faster.
 
OP, I agree with you. I have a friend who had a pony who was strong so she kept increasing the severity of the bits. Poor pony had so much metal in her mouth :( However, she also said pony was lazy and so used spurs to kick her on !!? I got her to have some lessons with my RI, who told her to take off the spurs, put pony in a snaffle and schooled pony to go forward properly.
 
Yep agree with the poster above it is normally for a reason. I had a pony who I think just preferred the action of the Pelham on the bottom rein! He hated snaffles and was really quite dangerous in one. However he also liked the spurs and they brought the refinement of my aids making it easier for him to know what was being asked,not to ask him to go faster.
I will agree with you though on the three ring gag said pony hated this and it made me look at it more closely. The leverage on it is massive making it (in my eyes) an extremely strong bit . I've seen it used probably far to quickly as a step up from a snaffle.
Every horse is different though my pony taught me that he also taught me that a snaffle is not always the mildest bit if the horse doesn't think so!!
 
I have used a pelham with a grackle AND spurs once, shock horror!!! Said horse was immensly strong when really going foreward and whilst he was very foreward going, he did have a tendency to run backwards or sideways when not allowed foreward. The spurs were only there as a back up to stop him running sideways or backwards, never forewards. If you ride in spurs correctly, the spurs only ever come into action when you turn your toes out slightly, they should never be in constant contact with the horse!
 
Yep this really annoys me and has done for years but mainly when used by people who don't know How to use them properly. Spurs can be good for refining leg aids and different bits may be needed for different horses but I hate seeing people who literally just use them to kick and pull.
 
Out annoys me when you can see the kid clearly can't ride effectively and hence the tack. The kid can't keep legs still and the spurs are being used incorrectly.
 
I don't like to see horses overbitted and going badly but it does not worry me to see well ridden horse say showjunmping in a gag ang spurs providing it is going and ridden well ,it is just as upsetting to see a horse in a cavesson noseband and snafffle with its head right up with the rider sawing at the mouth with their legs flapping.
Focusing to much on what used takes the focus away from how it's used and the skill of the rider which is really the key to a happy horse.
 
I'd better go and hide :o

I use a pelham with roundings, spurs and a martingale.
Little (big) sod gets a bit too excited so I need brakes to stop him tanking off with me. He also doesn't listen to my leg so I wear short spurs and I'd rather not have his ears up my nose, hence the martingale. :)

I would like to think that my instructor would have told me if I was yanking at his mouth whilst jabbing him in the ribs. :cool:
 
Don't be so quick to make assumptions. You don't know WHY some combinations go better like this and you are also overlooking what else a gag cam do. I jumped in a NS fulmer gag on my previous horse and spurs. He was very lazy but when jumping would simply bear his weight onto the forehand. He would school in a loose ringed snaffle but no chance when jumping. The gag kept him up and the spurs kept him forward. And before anyone yells schooling, this horse was out competing at Novice and working happily at elementary!
 
And I would add its much better to focus on your own riding horse management etc rather than wasting energy getting annoyed by what other people do .
 
My pony is ridden at home in french link snaffle and sometimes a schooling whip. Jumping she gets very excited so has a gag to help contain the forward excitement. Sometimes she doesn't listen to me though coz she's so excited. In this circumstance, especially on a slippery surface, I may put spurs on to remind her to listen to my leg mainly on corners as it's my leg that will hold her up on tight turns. Nothing to do with speed.
 
My daughter jumps her boy in a universal gag but doesn't generally use spurs for jumping. Horse has a tendancy to get very speedy and strong and the bit helps hold him at a sensible pace without the need for pulling. For doing flatwork she has bit on snaffle setting and wears spurs but more as a backup to her leg than anything else.
 
I jump my horse in a Cheltnum gag because he gets strong at shows. However he is really spooky and can drop off my leg so I often wear a small pair of spurs. Does that make me a bad owner!?
 
I've seen a saint of a horse being ridden in a gag on the last ring and spurs. This horse could take you round a course in a headcollar, but because he's over bitted and they use spurs, he acts like a naughty horse and who can blame him!! When it's for a reason, then it's not so bad, but when people go over the top on such a good horse, it baffles me.
 
It only annoys me if i see them ride and its all pull pull pull/kick kick kick (strong bit and spurs). Not annoyed by just the wearing of a strong bit and spurs. If everything suits the horse and is used correctly with correct riding i have no problem with it. Standing martingales can be used quite successfully for jumping if fitted correctly.
 
sophiebailey said:
..... all manner of people at competitions (this is something I observed last night) who are jumping their horses/ponies in what I would call fairly strong bits (eg Gag's on the last ring, pelhams etc) but then have spurs on their boots and schooling whips? I feel very sorry for the poor horses ... they're being encouraged forwards by strong aids from behind into a bit that doesn't want them to move forwards as fast as the spurs are telling them too :( it can't be comfortable for them :(

I also saw a few people jumping in standing martingales which I always thought was a big no no!

Why do you think people over tack for events like this? I can wholly understand wanting a running martingale to jump in so as you have a neck strap to hold onto, but what's with all this extra?!

Might just be me having a moaning old poobag morning, just felt quite confused by it all last night!

Anyone else seen this and gotten annoyed?
Click to expand...

Oh dear... Al, aged 11-13 rode a 14hh pony in a cheltenham gag, flash noseband, running martingale. She wore spurs (maximum length allowed) and carried a whip. He was a little tank of a pony who'd go like a bullet and do what he liked if she didn't have the 'oomph' the cheltenham gag leant behind her commands. However, he was also very nappy and liked a joke so the spurs and whip helped act as a deterrent to that behaviour.

They were jumping 1.10m courses- at that height on a pony that small, the margin for error is very small. When people who have evented to 3* on home-produced horses can't control him in a snaffle, a skinny little girl had no hope.

Also, Reg has spent a week in a standing martingale. It was elasticated and loose fitting and just helped stop him run off with his head up every time something didn't go right. It came into action once, and that week turned his confidence around SJ. Before, he was nervous and sharp, and now he's happy and enjoys it...

There are ponies and horses who need what's being used. Bad schooling i part of the reason, sure, but often no amount of reschooling will help. Henry was a small cob who was kept very fit and allowed to be very arrogant- jumping the ehight he did, he needed to think he was invincible!- and schooling can't really take that away.
 
I think the emphasis has to be on misusing aids, which does really annoy me. If I see a lot of seemingly strong tack, being used correctly by a competent rider I assume there is a good reason.
The aid I see abused most commonly is peoples hands tho, which are misused in mild tack just as often.
I would be interested as to why anyone would be out showjumping with a schooling whip tho as opposed to a short one, can't say it would annoy me, i'm just interested in why.
 
I can understand that there may be some reason why the riders are using certain bits, martingales and spurs and that's fine as long as they are for a genuine reason and are used sympathetically by a rider who knows what they are doing. What does annoy me is when you see riders using the gags, martingales and spurs and they don't know how to use them properly or when there horse doesn't need them and they are merely a 'fashion' statement. These tend to be the ones that are being hauled in the mouth, booted in the ribs and as a result get confused and stop/buck/rear etc and the rider then leaves the ring complaining loudly to their friends that there horse is 'so naughty' and he needs whatever bit they think is stronger, when in fact their horse is simply confused and trying to let them know in the only way it knows how.
 
OP, you seem to be thinking that

bits/martingale = brakes
spurs and whip = go faster

which shows a lack of understanding of the purpose of them... Are certain combinations abused with certain people? Undoubtedly.

Standing martingales are allowed by the BSJA, and are almost obligatory in hunter classes in the US, so yes, they are fine for jumping.
 
You best shoot me now I use pelham, rounding standing and running martingale, plus spurs and whip... I think until youve ridden the horse you cant really comment on what the owner/rider is using. Mine is in a pelham at shows as hes strong into the fences and will rush, martingales are there to stop him smacking me in the face which he has done many times, and whip/spurs are to tell him to stop being a tit and spooking and concentrate on what im asking plus hes a warmblood, hence lazy and backs off leg
 
One image that's always stuck with me from when I was small was a competitor in an equitation class at a local show. She had a standing martingale on a hunting-style breastplate, what I now think was a dutch gag (but it may not have been - I was very young and it was about twenty years ago - I thought it was a funny looking pelham) with a flash and two reins, the rider had spurs, etc etc....it looked like alot of *stuff*

The kicker?

The pony was about 12hh, the rider was about four, and the whole class was a lead rein class. I only remember it because I stood thinking "oh, she must be a brilliant rider, look at all that tack!" and thought it was outrageous that she didn't win!
I can't have been more than 10 at the time though and didn't know any better. Nowadays, I remember it and think "who the heck makes spurs THAT tiny???"
 
As others have said it all depends on the horse, as long as the equipment is being used correctly & horse is happy then so be it. I ride my youngster in a hackamore, martingale, spurs & whip. I have been asked why am I riding him in a hackamore not that I have to explain myself to others, but the reason he is in one is because he is very unhappy in a bit & goes so much better in the hackamore & as for the martingale like someone else mentioned don't fancy his ears up my nose :p
 
rhino said:
OP, you seem to be thinking that

bits/martingale = brakes
spurs and whip = go faster

which shows a lack of understanding of the purpose of them... Are certain combinations abused with certain people? Undoubtedly.

Standing martingales are allowed by the BSJA, and are almost obligatory in hunter classes in the US, so yes, they are fine for jumping.
Click to expand...

Agreed -

I school my mare in a standing Martingale - in my opinion running martingales are horrible and the action of them puts pressure on the mouth and bit and causes a kink through the rein in an otherwise good hand position - not in my opinion the best way to stop a sensitive horse from chucking its head up. I have an elasticated one that I jump in and when I started using it the difference was remarkable. Do you understand the martingale or do you assume that because running ones are fasionable they are somehow kinder ?

I also school in spurs as it refines my leg aid which allows me to focus on other aspects of my riding other than having to nag with my leg - I don't jump in them as I don't actually have to use my leg into a fence, unlike on the flat.

I use a schooling whip to ask her to engage her behind on the flat and come off the forehand - If I ever dared to USE it she'd deck me quite frankly
 
I think I would like to see OP ride mine over a 1.10course without a standing martingale or spurs and see what happens!....... If you fancy the challange?! ;)
 
Ladylina83 if a running martingale makes a kink in the rien when the head and hands are in a correct place it is fitted to short it should only come in into action when the head is raised above the point of control.
 
rhino said:
OP, you seem to be thinking that

bits/martingale = brakes
spurs and whip = go faster

which shows a lack of understanding of the purpose of them... Are certain combinations abused with certain people? Undoubtedly.

Standing martingales are allowed by the BSJA, and are almost obligatory in hunter classes in the US, so yes, they are fine for jumping.
Click to expand...

Agree with this too.

Also i'm suprised noone has mentioned the OP's horse in a pelham and roundings on her sig?:rolleyes:
 
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