Does riding need to be so complicated?

Auslander said:
But this is not the issue. The issue is the definition of an international competitor. It's not geographical as much as an indication that someone is good enough to represent their country. That's what people are trying to explain.
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Well...not since I was a Junior then....as an adult I have not represented my country as an official FEI representative.....as a YR...yes...but it was here I started to realize my limits and rehashed my future plans

Now...has any of my horses shown internationally under this defintion....yes....did I have anything to do with their training and rise until the rider was selected...you bet....I have started/broke/trained these kinds of horses yes.

But under the definition which Auslander finally decided to give to explain the differences in the terms...no..I have not ridden interantionally as an official long listed rider/country representative in over 33 years
 
PapaFrita said:
Say what?? You base this information on...? There may only be 2 countries in N America, but there are lots and lots in S Am and you really should not be tarring them all with the same brush. Not with school children being murdered in schools in the USA...
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I thought that comment might not sit well with you . . .
 
oldvic said:
In answer to the original question, no, riding and training horses neither should be or is complicated, it just isn't easy! We need to understand the theory which, in itself, is not so hard. When it comes to applying that theory the feeling for what is needed is required and the decisions have to become instinctive otherwise the moment has gone. There is time to think what exercises might help or to tell yourself to sit up or similar but there is not time to say to yourself anything too long winded or complex. Horses actually respond best to a simple set of rules. It is our responsibility to be consistent with our requests and keep things as understandable as possible. That means the combination of leg, seat and rein needs to be suitable for each horse's physical and mental needs but their job stays the same (inside leg, outside leg, inside rein, outside rein and seat).
If I got complicated with any of my clients (human or equine) they would just stand and look at me like I had come from Mars or tell me where to go in fairly plain terms! This is lucky as I'm a simple soul!
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That. :)
 
nieghham said:
Well...not since I was a Junior then....as an adult I have not represented my country as an official FEI representative.....as a YR...yes...but it was here I started to realize my limits and rehashed my future plans

Now...has any of my horses shown internationally under this defintion....yes....did I have anything to do with their training and rise until the rider was selected...you bet....I have started/broke/trained these kinds of horses yes.

But under the definition which Auslander finally decided to give to explain the differences in the terms...no..I have not ridden interantionally as an official long listed rider/country representative in over 33 years
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Call me Charlotte - now we've been formally introduced ;)
I has already explained the definition - as had several others...
 
meardsall_millie said:
See, this is where it's so much easier for you - you're on the right side of the country. We have so much further to travel.

Unless I went across the border to Norfolk - I'm sure that would count as they all talk funny.....

Perhaps Lolo could clarify? ;)
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We don't talk funny, we just freestyle. :D

Can Norfolk count as a separate country? Because then Al ad I would both be international riders... I mean, it takes us well over an hour to leave the bloomin place. It would almost be quicker to get to France than to Wales :D
 
Lolo said:
We don't talk funny, we just freestyle. :D

Can Norfolk count as a separate country? Because then Al ad I would both be international riders... I mean, it takes us well over an hour to leave the bloomin place. It would almost be quicker to get to France than to Wales :D
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I already declared it a foreign country. So yep, that's all of us riding internationally :)
 
PapaFrita said:
Say what?? You base this information on...? There may only be 2 countries in N America, but there are lots and lots in S Am and you really should not be tarring them all with the same brush. Not with school children being murdered in schools in the USA...
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TarrSteps said:
I thought that comment might not sit well with you . . .
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In all fairness, nieghham did say at the bottom of that spiel that she was being sarcastic and hoped it didn't miss the boat.

Look, there it is, her sarcasm on the dock, waving as the ferry rolls off across the waves to Rantland....:D
 
I wrote a long reply at work, then realised the time & thought I'd better finish my actual work & lost it. It basically said no, riding doesn't need to be complicated.
I am loving the way this thread has gone though, I always wanted to be an international rider when I was little, & it seems like I now am by the new definition of 'international'. I can even say I have represented my country sj abroad, in that I was the only person present competing that day with a British passport. (doesn't matter about the fact it wasn't even affiliated & I was on a borrowed young horse cos I was staying with a friends family on holiday). Plus Wales I've done affiliated stuff. Olympics here I come!
 
Lolo said:
We don't talk funny, we just freestyle. :D

Can Norfolk count as a separate country? Because then Al ad I would both be international riders... I mean, it takes us well over an hour to leave the bloomin place. It would almost be quicker to get to France than to Wales :D
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Awesome, not only do I travel internationally to work (get me :p) but apparently I'm bilingual too. :D On that basis I'll be asking for a pay review tomorrow. ;)

Back to the OP, I do think the best trainers are the ones that give you a clear and simple way to do something, then develop your feel by being alongside you at just the right time saying "yes, that's it!" when you put it all together and have the light bulb moment. A few of those moments and surely that's when you start to develop the automatic/instinctive side of riding?
 
PapaFrita said:
Say what?? You base this information on...? There may only be 2 countries in N America, but there are lots and lots in S Am and you really should not be tarring them all with the same brush. Not with school children being murdered in schools in the USA...
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This is from post 208 and this is what I wrote




Quote:
Originally Posted by nieghham
On the bottom of this large continent is the South American one....I do not go there....it is a bit unsettled unless one is going to a caribean location


no where do I mention anything about countries only that Iwill not go onto any of the South American continent unless it is a caribbean location which is vacation locations like Jamaca or St.Pauls....where 10,000 of people go every year

And to compare the shootings of those children with what the ones in South America suffer daily....to them...that would be trivial....street gang fighting...the cartrell forcing them to work in the cocaine factories

Understand I am not trivializing the shootings or lives lost...but if you want to compare the Latin American part of that continent...you need to go to another country like say India o rAfrica/Hatia.

Outside the "tourists" areas is far worse than anything the US suffers....even the tourist islands poor make only a few dollars a day..and they do not have welfare of government assistance

Oh...and I base my information off my daughter who taught as a missionary there.

If one is truly interested just google South America Cartel/children sex trade/cocaine market/child labour

Then google the tourist places like Jamaca and see the difference
 
SpottedCat said:
In all fairness, nieghham did say at the bottom of that spiel that she was being sarcastic and hoped it didn't miss the boat.

Look, there it is, her sarcasm on the dock, waving as the ferry rolls off across the waves to Rantland....:D
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Thank you.....you see..I do not mind sarcasm in fun.

I will admit my use of sarcasm there was to drive home a point I was trying to make about how different countries use different terms sometimes for the same thing...and sometime not

This was after I had used several examples to explain how people across the pond....who from geographical location alone being separated by an entire ocean may be causing a miscommunication...several times in fact

And people mocked

It was either Tarr or Tonk who beratted me in a couple post stating how detail of everything is important...how it frustrates them and crosses them when left out or terms are different....I then went into detail (which now I find is wrong:confused:) and asked for patience while I learned your terms...they have expressed opinions/asked some questions and mocked a little but mostly asked

alot of the rest mocked

I explained I am not here to coach/change the world of riding/step on toes/intentionally disrespectmembers even apologising when I came unintentionally across like condendsending

And yet...some members still mocked

I have been accused of saying the word "you ride wrong/your way is wrong/you are wrong/my way is best/no only my way works" and yet when asked for the post in quote it was not given and this went on by of course...

Mocking

It took quite awhile for someone to explain the difference even after I explained what the terms meant here to the majority here several times....and even when I realized and explained the miscommunication

members mocked

This reminds me of a saying

It is not the worse thing I could do by bearing or raising a handicapped child....I could domuch worse by raising one that mocks/judges/bullies/scorns one

I find this is an umbrella term when describing the true colours people show at times though I will admit I do not feel I have been bullied here

I do not believe I have acted disrespectfully to any member nor named call them nor judge any unfairly nor asked any todefend a position/view/opinion....and when it was mentioned I sincerely apologised

I believe I have made every effort to answer questions for those who have asked

I do realize some people go with the phylosophy of life is hard...life is unfair...life is a bitch and so am I therefore I am strong...do not get in my way or I will knock you down....prove yourself to me you owe that

I just do not happen to be of that crowd

I think it takes more strength to be patient and ask kindly questions and find out things than to immediately judge/assume things

I think it takes more strength to think of others ...to take a moment... to put out your hand and help them up while dealing with life issues and not taking it out on others or blaming them for what life has done to you

I think it takes more strength to be kind and strong than judgemental and a bitch mocking people before really getting to know them....especially if they do not recipercate

But...that is just my phylosophy....it is not one for everyone...it is not the only on nor is it "THE" right....like all those who have them...this is just my mine and the one I try tolive by

I am only human though and do falter....we saw it here with the boat post and I am sorry but I ran out of options and realized with somepeople I need to speak their language.....soooooo....I am not always successful with my phylosphy.....but I most certainly never try to mock/judge/insult/belittle/whatever anyone and most certainly opologise if I have

Those of course who do choose to mock/judge/assume will continue to do so showing their true colours of character to me....the rest I ask again for some patience while I learn the difference...again loo-bathroom...and chips to us are french fries
As for any threads like this....sigh...is it details or is it not as I was told by a member who stressed exactly that it is in the detail of the explaination or is it like buying a car where you you know how to start it and push pedals but god forbid a tire blows or the oil needs checking sort of thing

Are differencesof styles/theory/tools/health/feed/whatever be allowed to be discussed or will they be mocked.

Will term differences/miscommunications be sorted with civil attempts or is mock the talk here

Any clue from members is apreciated and I thank those who have already made the sincere attempt
 
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Uh oh. . . .

PF does LIVE there. ;)


I'm sure there are awful things in South America but I think that post does sum up why some people have their knickers in a twist, neighman. I'm sure there is validity in what you wrote but to say to someone who LIVES there that this is all there is to it is, well, offensive.

I actually know who you are and I do understand that you are not trying to offend or to assume that anyone on here is somehow too dense to understand what you're talking about but it is coming across that way, a bit. And I've had about 30 years of instruction in Canada - probably from some of the same people as you! - and have never had things explained in such an impenetrable way. I've had people asking me this week if this is how Canadians teach!? I am confused by this idea that location/culture is behind the confusion . . .mostly here they mock me for my slang and my spelling! I have simply never had or heard these conversations talking to riders, trainers and judges at home. Not even at Balkenhol's seminar or in discussion with Team riders. I'll admit I have only seen Walter teach once and while I admire his take on things, I find some of his hard core followers a bit hard to take. No reflection on the man himself!

I realise this is your way and it works for you. I also realise that this is a discussion and not a lesson (lost of a few people originally, I think). I even actually agree with the details of much of what you have written - those fine adjustments to position and balance are the details of good riding. But what is the end to making things so complicated that good, educated riders - let alone riders who may not yet have that level of experience - can't follow. There are people on this thread that have ridden and judged well into the FEI levels, who take training with - and even train top people. You have said that is your positions too, so fair enough they asked for proof. I know you haven't SAID they are numpties (roughly, idiots) who do not ride at a high enough level to "get it" at the level you are discussing things, but that is how it has come across. I'm sure they would be happy to discuss theory with you - they put up with me, or at least they are polite enough to pretend to - it's all just gone a bit wrong. And, to be honest, at this point "they" have Olympic dressage medals and we do not! I'm not saying everyone here rides better than everyone in Canada but I would say yes, more people here have been exposed to very good dressage riding and training. And that is really saying something as anyone I know who regularly goes to the Continent to train would roll their eyes at that statement! ;)

And, for what it's worth, I don't think the natives have all covered themselves in glory either. I know it's all a joke but some of it has verged on bullying. After all, what does any of it mean to any of us? We go away and ride our horses and do what works for us and leave others to what works for them.

I blame the weather. If we were all out riding we wouldn't have time to split hairs!

Well, except for PF who is baking in the South American sun. :)
 
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Baydale said:
Back to the OP, I do think the best trainers are the ones that give you a clear and simple way to do something, then develop your feel by being alongside you at just the right time saying "yes, that's it!" when you put it all together and have the light bulb moment. A few of those moments and surely that's when you start to develop the automatic/instinctive side of riding?
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This! This this this! Exactly.

Nieghham, I hope you'll stick around, and I hope that maybe you'll be able to slightly simplify the way you post on here to enable us all to understand you.
Fwiw I can talk dressage theory for hours, happily, but I have never read anything as impenetrable and obfuscatory as your posts! Maybe your passion to get the message across means that you type in a 'stream of consciousness' way, or something? I don't consider myself stupid, I read fast and have a Degree in English Literature fgs, but I honestly couldn't get through some of your paragraphs! So, please, if you could just make them a bit easier, that would help.
You took the ganging-up on here very well, for which I applaud you. I hope you realise that the Brits' default setting is to mock, including their friends... don't take it personally!
 
TarrSteps said:
Uh oh. . . .

PF does LIVE there. ;)


I'm sure there are awful things in South America but I think that post does sum up why some people have their knickers in a twist, neighman. I'm sure there is validity in what you wrote but to say to someone who LIVES there that this is all there is to it is, well, offensive.

I actually know who you are and I do understand that you are not trying to offend or to assume that anyone on here is somehow too dense to understand what you're talking about but it is coming across that way, a bit. And I've had about 30 years of instruction in Canada - probably from some of the same people as you! - and have never had things explained in such an impenetrable way. I've had people asking me this week if this is how Canadians teach!? I am confused by this idea that location/culture is behind the confusion . . .mostly here they mock me for my slang and my spelling! I have simply never had or heard these conversations talking to riders, trainers and judges at home. Not even at Balkenhol's seminar or in discussion with Team riders. I'll admit I have only seen Walter teach once and while I admire his take on things, I find some of his hard core followers a bit hard to take. No reflection on the man himself!

I realise this is your way and it works for you. I also realise that this is a discussion and not a lesson (lost of a few people originally, I think). I even actually agree with the details of much of what you have written - those fine adjustments to position and balance are the details of good riding. But what is the end to making things so complicated that good, educated riders - let alone riders who may not yet have that level of experience - can't follow. There are people on this thread that have ridden and judged well into the FEI levels, who take training with - and even train top people. You have said that is your positions too, so fair enough they asked for proof. I know you haven't SAID they are numpties (roughly, idiots) who do not ride at a high enough level to "get it" at the level you are discussing things, but that is how it has come across. I'm sure they would be happy to discuss theory with you - they put up with me, or at least they are polite enough to pretend to - it's all just gone a bit wrong. And, to be honest, at this point "they" have Olympic dressage medals and we do not! I'm not saying everyone here rides better than everyone in Canada but I would say yes, more people here have been exposed to very good dressage riding and training. And that is really saying something as anyone I know who regularly goes to the Continent to train would roll their eyes at that statement! ;)

And, for what it's worth, I don't think the natives have all covered themselves in glory either. I know it's all a joke but some of it has verged on bullying. After all, what does any of it mean to any of us? We go away and ride our horses and do what works for us and leave others to what works for them.

I blame the weather. If we were all out riding we wouldn't have time to split hairs!

Well, except for PF who is baking in the South American sun. :)
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Bravo!! I agree with every word of this - apart from the comments on Canadian training/trainers, of which I have no experience and hence can't comment. I apologise if I contributed to the confusion regarding the relevance, or lack of, of transatlantic cultural differences - my OH who used to be a MD of RBC disagreed too so I am clearly wrong :rolleyes: Now come on, girls, let's play nicely from now on :cool:
 
Was there nothing good on TV last night? I watched Silent Witness, the plot, as usual was as complicated and impossible as some posts on here.

Having just read the lot I would like to announce that I too am an international rider. I am Welsh but live in England. I have competed in both countries. I also have competed for a UK Student team in Switzerland (that even had a 'selection process')

My breeding is such that my children could compete internationally for any of the home nations seeing as my OH is Irish/English, with Scottish ancestry and last name!
 
WellyBaggins said:
Blimey :eek: that was a heavy 15 mins, need gin..............
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Wow at this time in the morning as well , try going for a ride instead if you can I don't know about with you but here the sun is out I can see lots of blue sky and the wind has gone , life feels good.
By 7pm I'll prob be after the gin again though.
 
I was planning on going for a ride but that now seems a little straight forward, can I do that? Just tack up, hop on and go? Doesn't now seem like much prep??? :p ;) See, I need the gin to clear my head :D
 
peeing down here, horses still in with extra rations. Will go to farm shop to stock up for weekend (they sell gin!) and turn out when I return.

Just realised my whole family are international competitors, kids did ski school races when they were little. OH is just competitive anyway, esp when driving abroad!
 
What about my issues first job is my six yo who I thought did pretty neat leg yielding until yesterday seriously I am scared to get on.
 
Baydale said:
Back to the OP, I do think the best trainers are the ones that give you a clear and simple way to do something, then develop your feel by being alongside you at just the right time saying "yes, that's it!" when you put it all together and have the light bulb moment. A few of those moments and surely that's when you start to develop the automatic/instinctive side of riding?
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Ignoring tangent this post has gone off in, I totally agree with this.

My "simple" brain cannot register everything at once and cannot work on changing everything at once or being perfect, you need to build the blocks / feel in the right order so each one becomes "normal / instinctive" and then work on the next.

Some people / good riders maybe get some of the blocks automatically so progress quicker than others.

Luckily I have an instructor that helps me build and establish the blocks and then pushes for the next one - does that make sense?

Finally whilst I agree that you need to think and be aware of your riding, sometimes over thinking is not a good thing esp. when jumping as it does slow your reactions down.
 
kerilli said:
This! This this this! Exactly.

Nieghham, I hope you'll stick around, and I hope that maybe you'll be able to slightly simplify the way you post on here to enable us all to understand you.
Fwiw I can talk dressage theory for hours, happily, but I have never read anything as impenetrable and obfuscatory as your posts! Maybe your passion to get the message across means that you type in a 'stream of consciousness' way, or something? I don't consider myself stupid, I read fast and have a Degree in English Literature fgs, but I honestly couldn't get through some of your paragraphs! So, please, if you could just make them a bit easier, that would help.
You took the ganging-up on here very well, for which I applaud you. I hope you realise that the Brits' default setting is to mock, including their friends... don't take it personally!
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Ditto this, K. I hope Neigham does stay around as I like her passion for all things equestrian and it would be a dull old world if we were all the same, wouldn't it? :D As for the mocking: personally, I see the gentle ribbing as a sign of affection from my friends and would be more offended if they didn't take the mickey out of me. ;)
 
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