Does the Horse World disproportionately attract abusive people?

[Mrs B]

I think it is human nature, this sort of behaviour appears at dog shows, dance and gym competitions etc

This. I think there are abusive people in all walks of life.

Generally speaking, the people on this forum simply spend more time with/observing horse-people.

In all walks of life, though, I do get worried by this concept of micro-aggressions.

It assumes that Person B should KNOW what might offend Person A, even down to the last detail ... and share exactly their viewpoint or way of behaving... whereas Person B is most likely going about their daily life, with no offence intended in the slightest.

Just because Person A happens to find some aspect of something person B does/says offensive, doesn't make it Person B's fault, nor problem.

It just makes for a very stressed and unhappy Person A.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Easier said than done.

There’s a lot more choice in some places compared to others.

Here there is very very limited choice in a 40 mile radius (3 trekking centres and not even sure about any stabling).

Well it seems that the alternative is to turn a blind eye to abuse. Why would you want to do that? The owner has to be the advocate for their own horse. I couldn't live with myself if I thought someone could be abusing my horse and I left him/her on that yard.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

When does correction become punishment ?

I have mulled this over and I think my conclusion is that I don't see correction as a consequence of doing wrong, I see it as an indication of what I would like them to do next time and with appropriate force, whereas punishment can be disproportionate/delayed/as a consequence of doing wrong. Appropriate force of course is subjective, so this definition wouldn't work for someone that is not of reasonable/sound mind.

Eg: Dex is fresh at the mo and when leading him home from a hack this PM he kept bowling forward and trying to walk down the single track in front of me and was therefore walking on top of me, so I stopped and gave his verbal stop que and tapped his chest with my hunting cane to indicate that he must walk backward, he wasn't listening so I tapped him slightly harder, rinse and repeat as many times as necessary - correction. Dex bowling in front of me and me hitting him around the side of the head with said hunting cane, even just the once - punishment due to hit location, lack of instruction and roughness. Imo any one of those things being unreasonable is enough to make it punishment.

 

[WrongLeg]

This. I think there are abusive people in all walks of life.

Generally speaking, the people on this forum simply spend more time with/observing horse-people.

In all walks of life, though, I do get worried by this concept of micro-aggressions.

It assumes that Person B should KNOW what might offend Person A, even down to the last detail ... and share exactly their viewpoint or way of behaving... whereas Person B is most likely going about their daily life, with no offence intended in the slightest.

Just because Person A happens to find some aspect of something person B does/says offensive, doesn't make it Person B's fault, nor problem.

It just makes for a very stressed and unhappy Person A.

I am not so sure that horse people notice bad behaviour in the horse world because only they spend time in the horse world…

I stepped away for 15 years and did not experience the same kind of behaviour in any other workplace or sport. Plenty of really bad behaviour elsewhere but not of the same ilk…

Such as attempts to sabotage other people’s successes, stealing tack, aggression & violence - ((excluding sexual assault which happens regularly in the City)).

This would never ever happen in snowboarding, I would be v. surprised if a ski competitor tried to steal another competitors skis…

 

[teapot]

I am not so sure that horse people notice bad behaviour in the horse world because only they spend time in the horse world…

I stepped away for 15 years and did not experience the same kind of behaviour in any other workplace or sport. Plenty of really bad behaviour elsewhere but not of the same ilk…

Such as attempts to sabotage other people’s successes, stealing tack, aggression & violence - ((excluding sexual assault which happens regularly in the City)).

This would never ever happen in snowboarding, I would be v. surprised if a ski competitor tried to steal another competitors skis…

I've been looking at golf membership and while it's a small sample, the four I've considered locally I think all had sections in their membership T&Cs about standards of behaviour towards others - staff and fellow members - with immediate termination if found to break this rule. The two clubs I've made further enquries with have been nothing but professional, helpful and friendly.

A far cry from first impressions you regularly get in the equestrian industry, so I think there IS something about it that makes it a lot worse than other sports/hobbies.

 

[Cherryblossom]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot today, as I witnessed a mother being awful to her young son at a competition yesterday. I know the venue wouldn’t care about it, and I’m left wondering if there’s any point contacting the pony club that they’re part of, as I don’t any personal details to report to school or SS.

But if someone is that awful in public, I dread to think what her children and ponies suffer at home.

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

I am not so sure that horse people notice bad behaviour in the horse world because only they spend time in the horse world…

I stepped away for 15 years and did not experience the same kind of behaviour in any other workplace or sport. Plenty of really bad behaviour elsewhere but not of the same ilk…

Such as attempts to sabotage other people’s successes, stealing tack, aggression & violence - ((excluding sexual assault which happens regularly in the City)).

This would never ever happen in snowboarding, I would be v. surprised if a ski competitor tried to steal another competitors skis…

I have honestly never seen anybody in the horse world try to sabotage someone else's successes or steal tack. Definitely some mumblings along the lines of "it's OK for her, her horse does everything on its own" kind of thing, but never anything worse.

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot today, as I witnessed a mother being awful to her young son at a competition yesterday. I know the venue wouldn’t care about it, and I’m left wondering if there’s any point contacting the pony club that they’re part of, as I don’t any personal details to report to school or SS.

But if someone is that awful in public, I dread to think what her children and ponies suffer at home.

I briefly worked in a school where very few of the kids if any were into horses. Some of the parents were beyond belief... in one case the school had to call in the gendarmes to protect a kid from her parent, and that was in front of staff. I hate to think what went on at home. That school was also the place I came the closest to receiving physical violence from one of the kids. He had serious mental health issues that I didn't know about because of confidentiality reasons and I wasn't trained in how to react even if I had known. That ended up with a broken glass door and another call out to the gendarmes.

Based on my experience, it would be easy to wonder if schools disproportionately attract violent and abusive personalities, which I don't think is the case either...

 

[SEL]

Absolutely not in my opinion - after 20 odd years working in HR, peoples ability to be unpleasant, inappropriate or downright illegal never fails to astonish me

There's good reason I stepped away from managing large teams of people in the workplace!

 

[TPO]

This is so true.

Why do people tolerate behaviour in the horse world that would be called out in all other worlds?

I'd guess because most horse owners don't have their own land/property to keep horses so you are always at thr mercy of someone.

Most people I know aren't on yards that they are completely happy with, I know I never was. It was always about finding thr most suitable that you could and what you/the horse could tolerate.

Thankfully my parents bought a place 6yrs ago meaning we could escape livery h3ll. Up until that point it meant safeguarding our own and keeping heads down. I moved yards several times always trying to find better for my horses. In my decades of being a livery there was only one yard where there wasn't someone actively abusive towards their horse(s); sadly that yard also came with a YO who constantly moved the goal posts and her very creepy (& secret camera installing) OH.

 

[I'm Dun]

People are horrible, it's just not often talked about. When I was a victim of, fairly mild in the big scheme of things, domestic violence, the amount of people who offered support and empathy because they had been through the same thing, left me reeling. And again, when I was stalked and harassed and nearly driven to suicide by it all, the amount of people who had suffered similar was horrific. In my case the person responsible did it for fun. He played with me the way a cat plays with a mouse, making sure I had no support and couldn't leave before he really upped the ante. He has huge issues.

I don't think its all men, because clearly its not. But it has coloured my view hugely and I tend to default to all men could be capable of that sort of thing, and keep away from them. I think a similar thing goes on with horses, and because we are all so invested it makes us think its a horse culture issue. Some of it is, but most of it is just a people issue.

When people have power over others they can behave badly with no consequence. When there's money or success involved, people behave badly because they see it as them having to do it to succeed. When something has always been done that way, seems to work and get results some people don't want to change, others aren't, and some cant. I don't even know how you go about unpicking that.

 

[LEC]

I just think things change but mentality takes time to catch up.

You only have to look at language as a good example. Words which would have been used frequently in the past like spastic and coloured etc are no longer acceptable but there is an element who don’t get it or just haven’t educated themselves as to why.

Most people go in with a love of horses, sometimes I think there is an element of doing what they have always done, and no clue that actually times have moved on as has science. There is also a pressure of money unfortunately and the need to get results.

 

[WrongLeg]

I have honestly never seen anybody in the horse world try to sabotage someone else's successes or steal tack. Definitely some mumblings along the lines of "it's OK for her, her horse does everything on its own" kind of thing, but never anything worse.

I am glad you have never come across this.
The grooms used to all take it in turns sleep with the tack at competitions.

 

[Gloi]

I have honestly never seen anybody in the horse world try to sabotage someone else's successes or steal tack.

Tack gets stolen all the time at shows

 

[I'm Dun]

Tack gets stolen all the time at shows

and wasnt there manes and tails cut at some big showing championship not so long ago?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Tack gets stolen all the time at shows

Indeed.

It was known horsey pros who were the culprits in this episode of thefts.

Two charged in relation to tack thefts at major show centres - Horse & Hound

Two men have been charged with theft in relation to tack stolen from Weston Lawns, Bolesworth and the David Broome Event Centre this year. Jamie Aston, 31, and Kieran Quinn, 35, both of Arthur Street, Blaengwynfi, have been charged with five counts of theft. Mr Aston was charged with a further...

www.horseandhound.co.uk

Two 'greedy' showjumpers have avoided jail after stealing £51,000 worth of horse-riding equipment from fellow riders taking part in major equestrian competitions across the UK.

Former Horse of the Year show winner Kieran Quinn, 36, and his partner Jamie Aston, 32, stole items including saddles, stirrups and riding boots as riders waited to compete in international events last year.

 

[Polos Mum]

Tack gets stolen all the time at shows

I came back from XC at a ODE to find some S&%$ had stolen my headcollar from outside my box. I was on my own and stupidly didn't have a spare so I was lucky others around helped me get changed for SJ and then travelled him home loose.

 

[exracehorse]

Luckily I know many lovely horse owners. Have had the misfortune of being on yards with rude horrid scary light fingered individuals in the past. And a witch of a yard owner. I think we always remember the bad liveries more than the nice ones. In every sport. Profession etc there will always be the rotten apples. From working as an office junior to a super model.

 

[MuddyMonster]

Between our extended families we cover horses, sailing, skiing, cycling, dogs, golf and various arts as serious hobbies and sports - some have blurred the lines into professional careers too.

There isn't one of us that doesn't have stories to tell about outrageous, toxic or dangerous behaviour. Equally, every single one of us can tell stories of how nice people can be too. I can certainly claim meeting two of the nicest people I know through horse's.

So, I'm another not really that convinced that equestrianism attracts better or worse than most sports in the scheme of things.

 

[WrongLeg]

and wasnt there manes and tails cut at some big showing championship not so long ago?

Yes - and smaller shows too. I recall the forelock being cut off a Not so Hairy Highland at one of the amateur shows.

 

[irishdraft]

No I don't think the horse world disproportionately attracts abusive people, sadly abusive people are in all walks of life, abusive to animals of all types and other people. Power & money are often drivers but also you get people who abuse animals for fun or are just totally ignorant of basic necessities and couldn't care less anyway. I was in livery yards for about 15 years and couldn't say anyone was abusive to their horse, I've had my horses at home for the last 20 odd years but am still out and about regularly although it's in a non competitive environment and have never seen outright abuse of a horse. I don't think the average person with a horse does abuse them totally the opposite actually, they may be misguided with certain things but I don't think the average horse owner is going round punching their horse in the face, Andrew McConnon style or whipping them round the legs Charlotte style. Most people are bending over backwards to make sure their horses needs are met.

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

Tack gets stolen all the time at shows

Maybe its area specific... I live in rural France and the riding school doesn't even lock its tack room. I often leave my car unlocked with my tack in it at competitions and never had an issue. Hoof picks and riding sticks disappear all the time but more often than not reappear in a horse's stable or in the sand school. I am more careful at big multi day, out of area competitions though.

 

[dougpeg]

No, there are abusive people everywhere. Just look at DA stats.

 

[ponyclubcomplaints]

I think it is human nature, this sort of behaviour appears at dog shows, dance and gym competitions etc

 

[ponyclubcomplaints]

And in the Pony Club as well - particularly the mounted games side of things.

 

[ponyclubcomplaints]

A friend whose daughter was a very talented gymnast and competed for years all over Europe and further, had a terrible time with the club her daughter trained at. Jealousy, bitching, back biting all went on constantly. Then add in what I considered to be abusive training methods - it was horrendous. Years later the club was one of the ones that was highlighted when the sporting association found coaches to abusive. They were eventually hounded out of that club and joined another successful one but it was never the same. The cliqueyness and the backbiting reminded me of pony club at times.
I think as someone said up thread money, fame, power, ambition and success on any level are usually the root of these behaviours.

Sounds like the pony club

 

[Gloi]

Long time again, fortunately, at a jumping competition the pony did a bad round. The kid came out of the ring and the dad grabbed the kid's crop and thrashed both pony and kid.

 

[ponyclubcomplaints]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot today, as I witnessed a mother being awful to her young son at a competition yesterday. I know the venue wouldn’t care about it, and I’m left wondering if there’s any point contacting the pony club that they’re part of, as I don’t any personal details to report to school or SS.

But if someone is that awful in public, I dread to think what her children and ponies suffer at home.

So very, very true. A friend of ours saw a PC coach punch and pull her own child off a pony at a games practice session. You do have to wonder.....

 

[Nonjumper]

I am not so sure that horse people notice bad behaviour in the horse world because only they spend time in the horse world…

I stepped away for 15 years and did not experience the same kind of behaviour in any other workplace or sport. Plenty of really bad behaviour elsewhere but not of the same ilk…

Such as attempts to sabotage other people’s successes, stealing tack, aggression & violence - ((excluding sexual assault which happens regularly in the City)).

This would never ever happen in snowboarding, I would be v. surprised if a ski competitor tried to steal another competitors skis…

Actually that can and does happen. Anything that pits one human against another is fraught with cheating, nobbling, and outright theft. All sports are affected by it, particularly those that feature on a world stage.

 

[onemoretime]

Long time again, fortunately, at a jumping competition the pony did a bad round. The kid came out of the ring and the dad grabbed the kid's crop and thrashed both pony and kid.

OMG did anyone intervene?