Dog ears: genetics, breed standards and ethics

[Titchy Reindeer]

Hi all, it's a slow day at work and I'm musing about dog ears.
First of all, I'm not talking about cropping here but other methods to get dogs ears in the desired shape.
I have recently become the owner of a pure bread australian shepherd pup. Not having had pedigree dogs before, I've never really paid attention to breed standards before either. But I am now informed that sticky up pointy ears or completely floppy ears are not allowed for aussies. Ideally, they should form two equal triangles pointing forward when the dog is attentive. Uneven triangles or ears slightly to the side are accepted but not desirable apparently.
My breeder has recommender that I glue Liberty's ears to the side of her head to increase the chance of getting "perfect ears". I had never heard of this practice before but it seems to be quite common in breeders of showline aussies. I asked my vet about it when I took Libby in for her vaccinations. She isn't convinced about its usefulness and said to be careful of ear infections if I did decide to do it.
Additionally I've been seeing adverts for young dogs for ideally pointy eared breads (malinois, dobberman) which show photos of the dogs wearing what look like plastic or cardboard cutouts in / around their ears, presumably to make their ears pointy. Does anyone know about this?
I can't quite wrap my head around the ethics of these practices. Obviously, they're not as drastic as ear cropping, but the "ear props" in particular look uncomfortable. Also, it seems to me a bit weird to have to go to such lengths to get a dog to fit its breed standard, especially if it's with the intention of breeding. Surely you only get the "can possibly fit the breed standard if their ears are tampered with at a young age" gene passed on as opposed to a "perfect natural ears" gene?
Am I missing something?

 

[CorvusCorax]

A lot of people post ears in my breed. It's a nonsense and just means faulty dogs continue to be bred from. My young dog and her father had erect ears almost out of the womb.

 

[Clodagh]

I think it’s just really sad. I certainly couldn’t do it to one of my dogs.

 

[druid]

We work on ears a lot in Manchesters, I select for better ears but in a numerically small vulnerable breed throwing an otherwise excellent specimen of the breed out for needing some help with ear set is akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Ours would tend to fly and should be button. Ocassional gluing of one corner fold to keep the crease/break in the correct place during teething is all that is needed. The pups are never upset by it, no ear infections, no scratching or rubbing

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

A lot of people post ears in my breed. It's a nonsense and just means faulty dogs continue to be bred from. My young dog and her father had erect ears almost out of the womb.

Thanks, I did wonder whether this was a common thing. It seems so strange to me. And even stranger to have it in pictures used to try and sell the dog...

 

[Supercalifragilistic]

I have a border terrier who is (according to people who know more than I do) very smart - he is bred to show. It has been suggested to me that one of his ears has an undesirable kink and that could be glued….
Needless to say I’m not going to be showing him and his ears are just perfect for the job that he does (bestowing cuddles, going for walks and digging holes).
As has been mentioned above, if ears are mechanically altered, surely this just allows continued breeding from dogs with an undesirable trait….

 

[FestiveG]

There are 8 labrador ears in our living room just now. Four belong to two sisters, they don't sit exactly the same on their heads, another one has enormous ears and the fourth has one which sits perfectly, the other hangs most oddly, except on very rare occasions. Not one of them would be improved by interference.

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

I think it’s just really sad. I certainly couldn’t do it to one of my dogs.

I'm not planning on doing it to Libby, I'm just now paranoid that she's going to end up with little pointy ears! (well not really, but I just can't help but wonder).

 

[stormox]

A lot of people post ears in my breed. It's a nonsense and just means faulty dogs continue to be bred from. My young dog and her father had erect ears almost out of the womb.

I don't know what your breed is, CC but in Dobermans hanging ears are natural, but people crop and post to give them upright pointed ears, especially in USA and EE.

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

We work on ears a lot in Manchesters, I select for better ears but in a numerically small vulnerable breed throwing an otherwise excellent specimen of the breed out for needing some help with ear set is akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Ours would tend to fly and should be button. Ocassional gluing of one corner fold to keep the crease/break in the correct place during teething is all that is needed. The pups are never upset by it, no ear infections, no scratching or rubbing

Thanks for your input. I can see how it might be necessary in a numerically small breed, but I don't think that's a problem for australian shepherds or malinois for example.

 

[Clodagh]

I accept that perfection is wonderful and breed standards are there for a reason. Much as I’m yet to see a breed improved by the show ring, that’s another matter.
Surely though you just show your dogs as they are, no cheating, and the one with the least faults, or nearest to standard, should win?

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

I have a border terrier who is (according to people who know more than I do) very smart - he is bred to show. It has been suggested to me that one of his ears has an undesirable kink and that could be glued….
Needless to say I’m not going to be showing him and his ears are just perfect for the job that he does (bestowing cuddles, going for walks and digging holes).
As has been mentioned above, if ears are mechanically altered, surely this just allows continued breeding from dogs with an undesirable trait….

I'm not really planning on showing Libby. I will probably take her to one to get her confirmed to keep my options open with regards to breeding from her later if I wish to. Her ears will probably be good enough for her to be confirmed. The otherwise fulfill their role of being completely adorable very well.

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

There are 8 labrador ears in our living room just now. Four belong to two sisters, they don't sit exactly the same on their heads, another one has enormous ears and the fourth has one which sits perfectly, the other hangs most oddly, except on very rare occasions. Not one of them would be improved by interference.

That's a lot of ears! A a good summary of them.

 

[Skib]

My daughter's Irish terrier was a reject as her ears are not equally raised. She is lovely.

 

[druid]

Thanks for your input. I can see how it might be necessary in a numerically small breed, but I don't think that's a problem for australian shepherds or malinois for example.

We do work to improve it with each litter, but you have to take the dog as a whole. My current show dog (who was a champion by 16 months of age!) did have his ears glued. His mother's ears are perfect as are sires...mother's had no work done, fathers got massaged at crease but no glue. My lad's ears are a throwback to a grand sire - not much I can do about that! His movement and hind angles are a big improvement on his parents, so overall I'm happy with what I bred and his health testing is all clear. For his mum's next litter I have selected a dog who has excellent natural ear size/set as well as improving on her weaknesses...we spend our time aiming for perfection but working with what we have.

There's also the element of being able to manipulate mediocre ears to look better when I can't change a dog's natural angles or bite etc so you have to pick you battles when breeding

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

I accept that perfection is wonderful and breed standards are there for a reason. Much as I’m yet to see a breed improved by the show ring, that’s another matter.
Surely though you just show your dogs as they are, no cheating, and the one with the least faults, or nearest to standard, should win?

That sounds like how it should be, but perhaps a bit idealistic...

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

My daughter's Irish terrier was a reject as her ears are not equally raised. She is lovely.

I'm sure she is! If a dog is going to have a "fault", at least as far as ears go, they're not going to impact it's overall health.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I don't know what your breed is, CC but in Dobermans hanging ears are natural, but people crop and post to give them upright pointed ears, especially in USA and EE.

German Shepherds, there are big problems in the showlines with huge/soft/floppy ears but instead of breeding better from dogs, they just fix them and carry on....

 

[Titchy Reindeer]

We do work to improve it with each litter, but you have to take the dog as a whole. My current show dog (who was a champion by 16 months of age!) did have his ears glued. His mother's ears are perfect as are sires...mother's had no work done, fathers got massaged at crease but no glue. My lad's ears are a throwback to a grand sire - not much I can do about that! His movement and hind angles are a big improvement on his parents, so overall I'm happy with what I bred and his health testing is all clear. For his mum's next litter I have selected a dog who has excellent natural ear size/set as well as improving on her weaknesses...we spend our time aiming for perfection but working with what we have.

There's also the element of being able to manipulate mediocre ears to look better when I can't change a dog's natural angles or bite etc so you have to pick you battles when breeding

It sounds like you spend a lot of time and thought on improving the pups you breed. I find it all fascinating in an academic way. As I said I'm new to the pedigree dog world, and it can be very strange at times but I love to hear from / about breeders doing their best. Good luck with your next litter.

 

[Gloi]

A friend was advised be the breeder to use wax to hold the pup's ears to the desired shape.

 

[blackcob]

I will admit to getting a bit antsy as my dog approached 16 weeks without reliably pointy ears - one of his siblings had them up at 4 weeks - but any jokes I cracked about glue were just that!

Additionally I've been seeing adverts for young dogs for ideally pointy eared breads (malinois, dobberman) which show photos of the dogs wearing what look like plastic or cardboard cutouts in / around their ears, presumably to make their ears pointy. Does anyone know about this?
I can't quite wrap my head around the ethics of these practices. Obviously, they're not as drastic as ear cropping

The dobermans are cropped, then posted up. I feel the same way about adverts for shar pei pups showing eye tacking sutures.

 

[Btomkins]

This video was highlighted to us by the breeder of my girl (Doberman, not sausage!). They tend to have flyaway ears after teething and if you want to show you really don’t want that. I don’t really see any issue with it, just couldn’t be bothered myself as we won’t be showing and think her crazy ears are adorable

 

[Jenko109]

You see it with the Shetland Sheepdog. To create the little desired folded over ear tips.

Not something I would do personally, however I cannot see that it would cause any detriment to the puppy, so it does not bother me.

 

[Patterdale]

My Manchester has had her ears taped, I just put two thin strips of medical tape across the fold in her ear. She’s none the wiser and after Crufts her ears can do what they like! I wouldn’t do it if it upset her or was detrimental to her health though, obviously.

 

[MurphysMinder]

A lot of people post ears in my breed. It's a nonsense and just means faulty dogs continue to be bred from. My young dog and her father had erect ears almost out of the womb.

It’s always gone on in GSDs , although no one admitted to it, but nowadays people blatantly post pictures of pups with foam etc in ears . It’s wrong because these dogs will go on to produce the problem . My Gsd has a weak ear which took a long time to go up and flops when she moves fast . I never intended to breed from her but if I had this to me would have made me change my mind .

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Thanks for your input. I can see how it might be necessary in a numerically small breed, but I don't think that's a problem for australian shepherds or malinois for example.

I can't see that it is necessary to mess about with dogs' ears no matter how few specimens are left. Better, imho, to modify the breed standard to reflect the reality of the breed as it has survived.

 

[Muddy unicorn]

Our lovely departed smooth collie girl had perfect ears for her breed - upright but tipped over. They were completely natural and didn’t need any interference but they weren’t obviously ‘perfect’ when she was tiny and the breeder told us to tape and glue them - we didn’t. However virtually every smooth collie breeder in America seems to tape and glue as a matter of course which means that nobody knows which lines have ‘perfect’ ears and which don’t

 

[druid]

I can't see that it is necessary to mess about with dogs' ears no matter how few specimens are left. Better, imho, to modify the breed standard to reflect the reality of the breed as it has survived.

That is how you lose a breed's type - it's like saying we should allow over height connemaras be bred from and then suddenly they aren't ponies anymore

A percentage of the breed have natural perfect button ears, and in fact Finn did as a pup. Ears tend to fly during teething due to the calcium demands on the pup's system. Supporting the correct structure during that period doesn't bother me. You cannot make a bad ear good; the set, fold and leather shape/size must all be naturally good before teething or you are at nothing trying to work with them.

 

[Clodagh]

That is how you lose a breed's type - it's like saying we should allow over height connemaras be bred from and then suddenly they aren't ponies anymore

A percentage of the breed have natural perfect button ears, and in fact Finn did as a pup. Ears tend to fly during teething due to the calcium demands on the pup's system. Supporting the correct structure during that period doesn't bother me. You cannot make a bad ear good; the set, fold and leather shape/size must all be naturally good before teething or you are at nothing trying to work with them.

It’s interesting, and thought provoking, what you say. My opinions on ear treatment are dated and largely based on ‘Lad, A Dog’ (fabulous book about a collie). I assumed you tape, glue, staple, whatever and distressed the dog and it wore a cone for a couple of months while the conformation was improved.
I take your points on board, I’m still unconvinced, but maybe reassured as at least you aren’t causing pain or discomfort.

 

[druid]

It’s interesting, and thought provoking, what you say. My opinions on ear treatment are dated and largely based on ‘Lad, A Dog’ (fabulous book about a collie). I assumed you tape, glue, staple, whatever and distressed the dog and it wore a cone for a couple of months while the conformation was improved.
I take your points on board, I’m still unconvinced, but maybe reassured as at least you aren’t causing pain or discomfort.

No cones, no pain. Pop him on the grooming table (something our pups are taught about from early during nail trims and "practice" for the vets etc), fold ear back and wipe clean with standard ear cleaner. Pop a drop of fabric/latex glue in outer corner and close over the fold. Give pup treats. Pup returns to his normal life. Sometimes we use a small strip of surgical tape instead. Pups continue to be walked, play with house mates etc. It has zero affect on their day to day living