Dog fighting

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As Kimberleigh was rightly keen not to distract the Family Protection Dogs thread from its original discussion I thought I’d bring this onto a new thread - to summarise briefly, I was surprised by K’s response to a comment I’d made on that thread, which turned out to be a simple omission as she explains in the quote below.

I must admit that I was absolutely sickened by the idea that anyone could come up with any justification or defence of dog fighting but am I over reacting in that? Granted the audience in AAD will be likely to be dog lovers, but I know from experience that HHO also loves a lively debate 😄
 
kimberleigh said:
In all honesty, I had to go back andread your comment to which I had replied to - so probably a simple omission as I felt it irrelevant at the time.

There is debate about absolutely everything in the world...and I'm sure if there were members on here (im not sure if there are?!) who come from countries where dog fighting is legal and even widely supported, they would be able to contribute points which we in the western world would never be able to consider, purely because we have never been brought up that way. Cultural differences are huge and I'm not the type of person to dismiss anyones views without hearing them first.

I have friends of Pakistani origin, where in their home countries both cock and dog fighting happen regularly. Do I think its right, or ok, or acceptable - no. Do they participate when visiting home, certainly not that Im aware of! But they have spoken to me at length about it and the general consensus is vastly different than if you asked 99.9% of my white british friends.

You're right, it does make for interesting threads when deviating...but these sorts of posts tend to get lost because the original post is what people are reaponding to
Click to expand...
 
Ergh, not dog fighting (although the way they treat dogs - and all animals in fact - is despicable over there) but when I was in Mexico last December, we were sat on the beach in the town of Mazunte, and a guy came onto the beach with two cocks and started goading them to fight each other. Just practising (!) my friend's cousin and I were outraged and shouted over to him to stop it - my friend and her Mexican husband were quite embarrassed at us doing this, because over there it is fine and culturally acceptable, even desirable. Vile. I never want to go back there, or any country where I will have to see people openly abusing or neglecting animals to that sort of extent. I know cruelty goes on everywhere but that holiday was such an eye-opener, I cried almost the whole journey home (poor OH, we were travelling for 36 hours!) because I'd had to leave a dog that i desperately wanted to rescue; when I got back I made a large donation to one of their dog rescue charities to try to make myself feel better :(

How anyone can defend dog fighting, I really don't know - the point is that they fight to the death, is it not? It isn't a sport, neither dog has a sporting chance as they are forced into it with no escape; and it's a slow horrible painful death, as far as I can imagine. Even if it's not to the death, the injuries sustained must be absolutely horrific.

About 12 years ago, when my life was very different to now, I lived in a dodgy area of Birmingham and on a late night walk to the off-licence, spotted a guy (incidentally of Asian origin - probably Pakistani as this area was/still is mainly populated by those of Pakistani origin) outside it with two Staffie types on chains - not chain leads, actual chains - a dog and a bitch. I had already had quite a bit to drink, and I crouched down and started talking to the dogs; the guy tried to stop me but I ignored him and carried on talking to them, and they were both so sweet and submissive, terrified but wagging their little tails tentatively and clearly happy to hear a kind voice. The bitch looked ok, if thin, but the dog's face was covered in scars - I mean, he was more scar tissue than normal tissue. Horrific. I went into the shop and when I came out he was dragging them off down the road. I should have reported it, but it seemed futile and I had no real information. Plus it was late at night, in that dodgy area, I was on my own and had already annoyed him by talking to the dogs. So it must go on here, I bet it's rife in certain areas.
 
I don’t think anyone on here, regardless of culture, would say that dog fighting is ok. I’m surprised you even thought to post this cos I cannot imagine anyone on here would ever say it’s ok and I’d say everyone will answer similarly.

Of course we don’t think it’s ever justified. How anyone could ever justify causing harm to dogs for entertainment or deliberately is beyond me.
 
I find both dog and cock fighting abhorrent (and badger baiting) and unfortunately the latter two are on the rise and very popular with the traveling community. they train cocks in a similar way to fighting dogs, with bait birds-which is why I've never given cockerels away free. Lots of things are acceptable elsewhere, doesnt make them right.
 
SpringArising said:
I can't see anything that says there's justification for dog fighting?
Click to expand...

I was referring to K's comment here "they would be able to contribute points which we in the western world would never be able to consider, purely because we have never been brought up that way. Cultural differences are huge and I'm not the type of person to dismiss anyones views without hearing them first"
Read more at https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/dog-fighting.768845/#qQWyDSq4VjjDMF4g.99

Perhaps justification is the wrong word to use, sorry, I couldn't see what other points could be contributed by people who fight dogs other than their explanation or justification that it is OK
 
We have a different culture and way of seeing animals in this country and rightly dog fighting is seen by most as abhorrent, but we can in my view be hypocrites where animals are concerned. People on here go shooting and hunting and would defend that and a lot of farming practices could be described as worse for animal welfare. There is a lot of money involved in dog fighting and I guess prestige in owning a winning dog and sadly that’s going to be an attraction to a lot of men in the world.
 
The thought of dog fighting leaves me cold. My son's dog and Mr EM's and my older dog existed happily together for 5 years and suddenly decided they hated each other and have had a couple fights which really were horrific and resulted in our dog having an operation on his ear. They are now kept well apart from each other although both get on well with our young dog and other dogs. I really cannot imagine how anyone could get pleasure out of watching dogs fighting.
 
Dog fighting may be acceptable in some cultures, but it doesn’t, and never would sit comfortably with my own values.
Digressing slightly, but I read an article recently about the Yulin dog meat festival in China where dogs are killed, cooked and eaten in the streets. That was an extremely distressing read for me, yet in Yulin the practice draws in the crowds.
If anybody chooses to google it, prepare to be very angry and distressed!
 
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Snitch said:
Dog fighting may be acceptable in some cultures, but it doesn’t, and never would sit comfortably with my own values.
Digressing slightly, but I read an article recently about the Yulin dog meat festival in China where dogs are killed, cooked and eaten in the streets. That was an extremely distressing read for me, yet in Yulin the practice draws in the crowds.
If anybody chooses to google it, prepare to be angry and distressed!
Click to expand...

Sadly I don't need to - I see the images that Candy Cane rescue shows when it rescues greyhounds from China, absolutely appalling
 
Snitch said:
Digressing slightly, but I read an article recently about the Yulin dog meat festival in China where dogs are killed, cooked and eaten in the streets. That was an extremely distressing read for me, yet in Yulin the practice draws in the crowds.
If anybody chooses to google it, prepare to be angry and distressed!
Click to expand...

Unless you're a vegan or veggie (as a general, not you specifically), there's definitely a level of hypocrisy to being upset by things like this that I don't understand.
 
SpringArising said:
Unless you're a vegan or veggie (as a general, not you specifically), there's definitely a level of hypocrisy to being upset by things like this that I don't understand.
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There is a huge difference between regulated, pre-stunned slaughter in a registered abattoir, and the spectator sport of boiling dogs alive. I am not a vegan but I would *never* eat lobster.

i read recently of a small abattoir that uses gas to pre-stun. I hope that this becomes the norm.
 
From a report into dog fighting by the BBC in 2007. Don't read on if easily upset:








The "bath" is apparently world famous in the dog-fighting circuit, it consists of placing the loser or a badly injured dog in a barrel of water and holding it under until it drowns.
These animals fight to the death for their handlers and this is how they're repaid.

......Bobby went running outside to the fuse box.
After a few seconds the lights went on.
Bobby had not taken the dog out to care for it, but to kill it. He had attached crocodile clips to the dog's tail and ear and poured a bucket of water over it in an attempt to electrocute it. That's what had blown the fuses.
This dog, that had fought till it couldn't move any longer, was being rewarded with death by electrocution and, if this couldn't get worse, it hadn't died. Bobby had to carry it to the house to finish it of with a stronger electric current.
 
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I think it is good to bring this abhorrent crime to people's attention. I had not realised the extent of the problem.

It has not escaped me that there are similarities between this thread, the Protection Dogs thread and the Banned Breed thread and a correlation between dog fighting, dangerous dogs and some breeds of protection dogs. I have no personal experience in any of these subjects and have no objection to them being brought to my notice.

I cannot see how a person, whatever their culture, could take enjoyment or pleasure from watching dogs trying to rip each other apart. It is sickening.

A quick Google reveals we have a countrywide problem with people organising fights between their "status"* dogs and also on a bigger scale with the involvement of organised crime. It is estimated that there is one fight every day in the UK.

Prosecutions appear to be few and far between. A gang from Lincolnshire and Wales are facing prosecution, one of the accused has failed to attend court and is believed to have fled to Southern Ireland (apologies Ireland, you have enough problems without our scum). There are many more who are escaping detection and we should be aware that it is going on.

Obviously there is some sort underworld communication involved in arranging the fights and selling the dogs as we don't see these fighting dogs being advertised for sale openly. As Kimberleigh quite rightly pointed out on the Banned Breed thread, it would be stupid to advertise publically.

Experts have warned that they are advertised on popular classified websites using codes to describe them, for example "game", "long legged" and "blocky" or using made up breed names. I am not suggesting that is only banned breeds that are used for fighting.

The practice of trading the dogs also happens on social media where trusted people are invited to join secret online groups to bid for dogs and presumably also to arrange or attend fights.

It must be very difficult for the authorities to apprehend the perpetrators as they are skilled at remaining beneath the radar. We do not see these dogs being exercised or trained, this presumably is all done on private land or well away from public view but it would do no harm to remain vigilant.

*quoting this term from an article online.
 
There is something abhorrent in human nature that takes pleasure in violence, whether it's between ourselves, or watching it manifest in other animals tearing each other apart. There are camel fights, and horse fights too, in Afghanistan, as well as other horrors in North and South America, along with well-organised dog and cock fighting rings. We have dog fights here (in Ireland), and most likely cock fighting, although the police are pretty good at shutting these down, the trade in fighting dogs is very active, particularly in Northern Ireland. I have had conversations with men involved, and they see nothing wrong in it, call it "natural", and it is highly profitable. They make my skin crawl, but the attitudes are not uncommon.

You could place this alongside the arguments used to defend hunting and shooting....
 
I know these things go on. They disgust me. I feel hot and sick - I can't deal with it at all. I close my eyes when I see things like this on social media - I mean, I literally close them because looking distresses my soul.

People who indulge in this barbarity are the lowest of the low. I can only hope karma or the afterlife teaches them a lesson, since they seem incapable of understanding the sheer wrongness of deliberately inflicting distress on sentient creatures.
 
2 German Shepherds fought outside my back fence one day (both belonging to the same man). It was absolutely horrendous and something I never want to experience ever again. They were both going at it and it wasn't just a noisy scuffle. Like you, SK, I felt sick and upset for a long time after.
 
CorvusCorax said:
From a report into dog fighting by the BBC in 2007. Don't read on if easily upset:








The "bath" is apparently world famous in the dog-fighting circuit, it consists of placing the loser or a badly injured dog in a barrel of water and holding it under until it drowns.
These animals fight to the death for their handlers and this is how they're repaid.

......Bobby went running outside to the fuse box.
After a few seconds the lights went on.
Bobby had not taken the dog out to care for it, but to kill it. He had attached crocodile clips to the dog's tail and ear and poured a bucket of water over it in an attempt to electrocute it. That's what had blown the fuses.
This dog, that had fought till it couldn't move any longer, was being rewarded with death by electrocution and, if this couldn't get worse, it hadn't died. Bobby had to carry it to the house to finish it of with a stronger electric current.
Click to expand...

I saw a documentary on dog fighting years ago and this is precisely what they did. Sickening and horrifying. Cruelty can never be justified.
 
I cannot understand the mentality of someone who takes pleasure in seeing animals be hurt, abused, tortured and killed. And that’s across the board, not just dog fighting. It’s pretty scary that certain sections of society actually get a thrill from it.

In the UK dog fighting is frighteningly active but of course all underground and often also coupled with other illegal activities.
 
Animal cruelty is something I have never been able to understand. It baffles me that some people find it entertaining 🤷
 
Well it appears that we don’t have anyone on the AAD part of the forum who comes from other cultures who might be able to provide an alternative view as Kimberleigh suggested? Personally I am not surprised about that I have to say
 
I have friends of Pakistani origin, where in their home countries both cock and dog fighting happen regularly. Do I think its right, or ok, or acceptable - no. Do they participate when visiting home, certainly not that Im aware of! But they have spoken to me at length about it and the general consensus is vastly different than if you asked 99.9% of my white british friends.
Read more at https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/family-protection-dogs.768696/page-3#jfLfEZoOQO83mzsX.99

Levrier, I hope I can provide the alternative view you are seeking and also defend Pakistanis, who I think are getting a bad rap on this thread.

I worked closely with a number of cultured and well educated Pakistanis over the years.

Dog fighting was never a subject that came up in the conversation - why would it?

I am sure that the gentle and polite men that I knew well would be horrified to be associated with such atrocities.

Of course it may be prevalent in the lower echelons of society just as it is here.
 
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