Dog Neutering

Neutering?....what a hot potato this topic is. I have a degree in zoology so look at the health issues for my dogs before I put them into surgery.
The latest research,shown by the links posted ,does say that a male dog does not benefit from being neutered ,in fact the op may be detrimental to growth,increase his cancer prospects and block general hormonal well being.
In the case of a female,I believe that one should allow the dog to mature..ie go through one or better two seasons,then spay.
I've had dogs for over 50 years and never bred a litter. I am also appalled by indiscriminate breeding,by puppy mills and by non health tested breeding stock.
Owning an intact animal is a huge responsibility...my current male will not be neutered ,nor will he sire a litter....does this make me uneducated?My last females were spayed at 6 and 8 yrs and never had a litter.
 
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Alec Swan said:
There is research which implies that the risk of bone cancer, specifically in greyhounds, though they may have been the breed targeted by the researchers, is greatly increased, following castration. .......

Alec.
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twiggy2 said:
I would be very interested to see the research Alec, I feel it may have more to do with the fact Greyhounds are prone to cancer full stop. .......
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Bellasophia said:
Neutering?............ I have a degree in zoology so look at the health issues for my dogs before I put them into surgery.
The latest research,shown by the links posted ,does say that a male dog does not benefit from being neutered ,in fact the op may be detrimental to growth,increase his cancer prospects and block general hormonal well being.
........
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Bellasophia, perhaps you can source and post the relevant research for twiggy2. I'm unable to do so, and though being as computer inept as one might expect, I am certain that I've read of such reports, somewhere.

My main argument against castration is that it changes and dulls a dog's 'being' (for want of a better word), and when I have a male animal, I want a male animal and as a male, and not as a eunuch. Castration changes any male, and if that's what the owner wants, then that's fine, but to deny the change, is either wilfulness or blindness. Humans, sheep, horses, cats and also dogs are changed by the denial of the pheromones of the entire male. To deny such is ridiculous.

Alec.
 
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf
Long-Term Health Risks and Benefits Associated with Spay / Neuter in Dogs
Laura J. Sanborn, M.S.
May 14, 2007

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/pdf/10.2460/javma.231.11.1665
Determining the optimal age for gonadectomy of dogs and cats,
Margaret V. Root Kustritz, dvm, phd, dact

http://www.savethedals.org/earlyneuter.htm
Veterinary "Review" Article on Neutering, with Implications for Dalmatian Stone-Formers Abstracted by Carroll H. Weiss
Study Group on Urinary Stones
Research Committee
Dalmatian Club of America

http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/neutr.html
NEUTERING MALE AND FEMALE DOGS
Mary C. Wakeman, D.V.M.
©2003 for BREEDERVET

http://www.littleriverlabs.com/neuter.htm
The Question Of Neutering and at what age
(Put together by Gregg Tonkin, Little River Labradors from postings by Pam Davol PHD and Chris Zink DVM, PhD, DACVP)

http://leerburg.com/pdf/neutering.pdf
Should You Neuter Your Dog?
Ed Frawley, Leerburg Kennels * words are l e e r b u r g.com and L e e r b u r g Kennels

http://www.traciehotchner.com/dt/files/WillWeChangeOnEarlySpay-Neuter_Villalobos.pdf
The Bond and Beyond for VPN December 2008
by Alice Villalobos
Will We Change on Early Spay-Neuter?

http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/castrationindogs.html
ISSUES REGARDING CASTRATION IN DOGS
Mary C. Wakeman, D.V.M.
©2003 for BREEDERVET

http://www.petresource.com/Articles of Interest/new_views_on_neutering.htm
New Views On Neutering
By Ruth Marrion, DVM

http://www.acc-d.org/2006 Symposium Docs/Session I.pdf
Non-reproductive Effects of Spaying and Neutering
Proceedings of the Third International Symposium on Non-Surgical
Contraceptive Methods for Pet Population Control * www.acc-d.org
SESSION OVERVIEW - Dr. John Verstegen

http://www.peptech.com/HTML/Animal_Health/Superlorin_general.html
A non-surgical method to suppress testosterone

http://prdupl02.ynet.co.il/ForumFiles_2/23999370.pdf
Pros and Cons of Neutering
E. Hardie
Department of Clinical Sciences, North Carolina State University, Raleigh, NC, USA.

http://www.doglistener.co.uk/neutering/rspca.shtml
RSPCA Admit to Spaying and Castrating Puppies AT SIX WEEKS OLD
Stan Rawlinson MTCBPT.MPAACT
Doglistener Behaviourist and Obedience Trainer

http://users.lavalink.com.au/theos/Spay-neuter.htm#vacc
Should I spay or should I no..? -- pros and cons of Spay-neuter
Hungarian Vizsla Health Resource









L
 
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http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/applan/article/S0168-1591(08)00114-7/abstract
Breed differences in canine aggression 1, Dec. 2008
Deborah L. Duffy, Yuying Hsub, James A. Serpella

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/11/11/1434.full
Endogenous Gonadal Hormone Exposure and Bone Sarcoma Risk
Dawn M. Cooley, Benjamin C. Beranek, Deborah L. Schlittler, Nita W. Glickman, Lawrence T. Glickman, and David J. Waters

http://www.stbernardhealth.co.uk/pyometrainthebitch.htm
Pyometra in the Bitch
Jenny King

http://www.akcchf.org/news-events/multimedia/podcasts/early-spay-and-neuter.html
Early Spay and Neuter
Podcast with Dr. Benjamin Hart

http://www.akcchf.org/canine-health/your-dogs-health/bone-cancer-in-dogs.html
Bone Cancer in Dogs
Dr. Jaime Modiano

http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10498
Golden Retriever Study Suggests Neutering Affects Dog Health
UC Davis, News and Information. Media Contacts: Benjamin Hart, School of Veterinary Medicine, (530) 752-1555, blhart@ucdavis.edu; Pat Bailey, UC Davis News Service, (530) 752-9843, pjbailey@ucdavis.edu

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0055937
Neutering Dogs: Effects on Joint Disorders and Cancers in Golden Retrievers
Gretel Torres de la Riva, Benjamin L. Hart ,XThomas B. Farver, Anita M. Oberbauer, Locksley L. McV. Messam, Neil Willits, Lynette A. Hart

http://www.parsemusfoundation.org/ovary-sparing-spay/
Ovary Sparing Spay
Parsemus Foundation works to advance innovative and neglected medical research.

http://www.vizslacanada.ca/SNBehaviorBoneDataSnapShot.pdf
Behavioral and Physical Effects of Spaying and Neutering Domestic Dogs(Canis familiaris)
Summary of findings detailed in a Masters thesis submitted to and accepted by Hunter College
 
Alec Swan said:
Bellasophia, perhaps you can source and post the relevant research for twiggy2. I'm unable to do so, and though being as computer inept as one might expect, I am certain that I've read of such reports, somewhere.

My main argument against castration is that it changes and dulls a dog's 'being' (for want of a better word), and when I have a male animal, I want a male animal and as a male, and not as a eunuch. Castration changes any male, and if that's what the owner wants, then that's fine, but to deny the change, is either wilfulness or blindness. Humans, sheep, horses, cats and also dogs are changed by the denial of the pheromones of the entire male. To deny such is ridiculous.

Alec.
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My male dog is castrated and is not at all a 'eunuch'. He is not dull and is a dominant large breed and very macho. Personally I think that argument is a load of tripe.

Personally I don't find it ridiculous at all but the sensible option and action for a non breeding male. Whether it be cats, horses or ferrets. All my animals are neutered and have all lived long and healthy lives.

You will always get the pro and against argument with neutering but I still believe that neutering is a good thing.
 
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Some of the links dont work, I wouldnt take any advice from Stan Rawlinson, some of the links are over 11 years old and on one of them the behavioral advice was just laughable.

All my male dogs bar one was neutered and have never encountered any of the conditions they list, same with my bitches which were spayed and also never had any of those conditions. All my dogs were allowed to reach full maturity both physical and mentally and the problems arrive I believe because people have their dogs done too early.

You can only go by your own experience, my dogs havnt changed in appearance or temperament and can still do the job they were bred for and so I have the security of knowing they will never bring more puppies into the world, never get run over chasing a bitch in heat or be stolen for breeding as mine are all pedigree dogs.

We have had this time and time come up on this forum and I can remember Cayla who runs her own rescue and has hundred of dogs through her hands which she has had spayed and neutered saying she has never had any health issues linked to spaying and neutering.

I doubt there are many people on here who has such first hand experience of so many dogs as Cayla and as vets imo can give different advice and I have asked lots of them about their thoughts on neutering & spaying I will stick to having my dogs neutered and spayed.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Some of the links dont work, I wouldnt take any advice from Stan Rawlinson, some of the links are over 11 years old and on one of them the behavioral advice was just laughable.

All my male dogs bar one was neutered and have never encountered any of the conditions they list, same with my bitches which were spayed and also never had any of those conditions. All my dogs were allowed to reach full maturity both physical and mentally and the problems arrive I believe because people have their dogs done too early.

You can only go by your own experience, my dogs havnt changed in appearance or temperament and can still do the job they were bred for and so I have the security of knowing they will never bring more puppies into the world, never get run over chasing a bitch in heat or be stolen for breeding as mine are all pedigree dogs.

We have had this time and time come up on this forum and I can remember Cayla who runs her own rescue and has hundred of dogs through her hands which she has had spayed and neutered saying she has never had any health issues linked to spaying and neutering.

I doubt there are many people on here who has such first hand experience of so many dogs as Cayla and as vets imo can give different advice and I have asked lots of them about their thoughts on neutering & spaying I will stick to having my dogs neutered and spayed.
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Absolutely!
 
I took many links in a block copy ,so sorry if some don't work...the gist is ,its a personal choice,best to not neuter too early,and read widely so you make an informed choice.Its not being entire that is my bugbear,but breeding these pet quality dogs.There are far too many dogs from untested parents,arriving in overburdened kennels ...clearly not acceptable.Also if you cannot keep an entire male under your supervision and control,then you should neuter him.
Mostmale working dogs are entire over here (Italy)as they do have more drive...
I agree that dogs leaving rescue should be neutered as it is the rescue who will bear the backlash if the adoptees fail to protect the animal and breed with it,god forbid.
 
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I was always of the neuter at all costs camp, I have had several rescues and all of my dogs are and have been neutered. My setter had to be neutered due to a retained testicle. However it ruined his coat-completely ruined it. He's such a good natured beastie that I honestly think neutering would have made little impact on anything temperament wise.
Our best friends got a labrador pup about 4 years ago and decided to not neuter-with the support of their (and then our vets). He's a great dog, well trained and socialised and is healthy and trim.
I generally always have dogs rather than bitches. My next dog is likely to be another setter. I work with many vets and have spoken to them about this-most of them own working dogs. On the whole its probably a good thing to neuter but I will not be neutering as a matter of course with my next dog.
 
My big dog isn't neutered: he's never been interested in bitches and constantly quarters for game. He's soppy, responsive, adorable. The youngsters are both neutered (one humped endlessly, one is very DA) It stopped the humping, not the DA behaviour. Both have huge drive and have not been adversely affected-as far as I can tell-by neutering. I deliberately waited til they were nearly two to do it, tho.
 
No adverse effects here from neuter and still seeing way more issues in entire dogs/bitches than neutered in comparison, im dealing with more dogs now than ever before be it rescue, in a behavioural capacity (including a heightened number of entire bitch issues) or at work (in practice) and funnily enough we had an entire greyhound handed in 2 days ago with a fractured leg and he was riddled with bone cancer, (not the 1st) and all been entire as most greys are to more than a mature age due to racing as already mentioned. I have always owned breeds prone to bone cancer myself and (thank god) none have suffered with bone cancer or any form of. I dont just advocate neuter for rescue purpose I do so because I belive in the benefits of doing so and hence my own being done. My OH was dead against it when we met having always worked his dogs and i never forced him to neuter his dogs but now he is absolutely 100% for it. Its for each individual to decide but I think I can cateogorically make my choices based on the sheer amount I can compare.

OP most vets participate in subsidised neutering via the dog trust....if you dont receive the correct benefit you can apply to the dog trust direct in writing.
 
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I don't neuter my dogs but I do have my bitches spayed, unless I am considering a litter.

I have never had any issues with a mixed pack, well not yet anyway!

I have found spaying does sometimes alter their coat, which is a shame, but the benefits outway this.
 
twiggy2 said:
I would be very interested to see the research Alec, ........ ?
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I suspect that what ever stance we take, on probably just about any canine subject, we can always source the relevant 'research' to support our beliefs! I, for instance, am strongly opposed to the needless neutering of dogs, but then that only applies to MY dogs. What others do with their own animals, is up to them, they can eat them for all that I care.

The argument put forward by many others is that their neutered males are indistinguishable from entire males. The reply to that, would be, 'By them, perhaps'. We geld a Colt to make him more manageable, obviously. The Gelding, visually, is very different from the Stallion, and to those who know what they're looking at, from a distance. We castrate the Bull calf, to firstly assist with his 'finishing speed', and secondly to make him safer to handle. A competent stockman would recognise a Steer from a Bull at 100 yards. We castrate the Tup lamb, and it's only the experienced eye which will separate the Whether from the Ewe.

The human who has been castrated as a child, will be quite obvious by their appearance. Castrated dogs have a massive change in place, and to deny that is really rather silly. If those who have their male dogs castrated are wishing to achieve an asexual animal, then that's fine, but my argument has been, and will remain, regardless of research from a supportive or contradictory direction, that those who will plan to have their dogs castrated should be aware that there will be changes, and it's my view that those who are wavering, should be aware of that.

I have seen too many castrated dogs to ever want one. For those who would claim that there is no alteration in a dog's psyche, following castration, answer me this; When was the last time that you saw a castrated male in any working competition? Are castrated males able to be shown under KC rules? I'm unsure of the last question, and am happy to be corrected.

Back to your question twiggy, there are those who can prove that the world is flat, so I'm not always altogether sure of the value of research!!

Alec.
 
In answer to your questions , yes castrated dogs can be shown under KC rules, and a friend has competed and won awards in working trials with her castrated male , he also had his IPO 1 qualification. I am sure he isn't the only one .
 
MurphysMinder said:
In answer to your questions , yes castrated dogs can be shown under KC rules, and a friend has competed and won awards in working trials with her castrated male , he also had his IPO 1 qualification. I am sure he isn't the only one .
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Is it not the case that you have to apply to the KC with a vet letter stating the reason for the castration/spey in order to gain permission to show? Things may have changed, but I thought this used to be the state of play - albeit many many years ago.
 
I have very limited experience with dogs and am not at expert at all. So it is interesting to hear that neutering doesn't affect personality/temperament at all, apart from the expected beneficial reduction in sex drive, because of course it has a huge effect in the case of stallions.

ETA: Just to add that I had not read Alec's post when I pressed Submit for this one.
 
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As far as I'm aware you just have to write to the KC with a letter from the vet stating the dog had 2 normal testicles prior to castration. Not sure what requirements are for spayed bitches but I have shown one without notifying KC , it's not easy to tell after all :)
 
My terrier is just as wonderful now as he was before he was snipped.

He’s also less inclined to leave wet patches on the sofa after self-felating. Which is nice.
 
Bellasophia said:
Neutering?....what a hot potato this topic is.
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It should be a no brainer. People should be responsible owners and neuter. You wouldn't second guess having your horse done, or your cat, (or at least I hope people wouldn't!) so why not a dog?

If cost is such an issue to OP's friend - Vets4Pets, PDSA etc all run discount schemes, or even their vet may offer a payment plan.
 
MurphysMinder said:
In answer to your questions , yes castrated dogs can be shown under KC rules, ........ .
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So under a competent judge, two male dogs are before him/her. One has been castrated, and the other is entire. Which one do you suppose that the judge will place before the other, considering that the judge will have an interest in the breed which they judge, and considers the breed description?

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
I suspect that what ever stance we take, on probably just about any canine subject, we can always source the relevant 'research' to support our beliefs! I, for instance, am strongly opposed to the needless neutering of dogs, but then that only applies to MY dogs. What others do with their own animals, is up to them, they can eat them for all that I care.

The argument put forward by many others is that their neutered males are indistinguishable from entire males. The reply to that, would be, 'By them, perhaps'. We geld a Colt to make him more manageable, obviously. The Gelding, visually, is very different from the Stallion, and to those who know what they're looking at, from a distance. We castrate the Bull calf, to firstly assist with his 'finishing speed', and secondly to make him safer to handle. A competent stockman would recognise a Steer from a Bull at 100 yards. We castrate the Tup lamb, and it's only the experienced eye which will separate the Whether from the Ewe.

The human who has been castrated as a child, will be quite obvious by their appearance. Castrated dogs have a massive change in place, and to deny that is really rather silly. If those who have their male dogs castrated are wishing to achieve an asexual animal, then that's fine, but my argument has been, and will remain, regardless of research from a supportive or contradictory direction, that those who will plan to have their dogs castrated should be aware that there will be changes, and it's my view that those who are wavering, should be aware of that.

I have seen too many castrated dogs to ever want one. For those who would claim that there is no alteration in a dog's psyche, following castration, answer me this; When was the last time that you saw a castrated male in any working competition? Are castrated males able to be shown under KC rules? I'm unsure of the last question, and am happy to be corrected.

Back to your question twiggy, there are those who can prove that the world is flat, so I'm not always altogether sure of the value of research!!

Alec.
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Alec Swan said:
There is research which implies that the risk of bone cancer, specifically in greyhounds, though they may have been the breed targeted by the researchers, is greatly increased, following castration. There's no question that castration of dogs is a double edged sword, and far from being an obligation of responsible owners, there may very well be an implied risk. I'd also point out that there are those countries, Norway I suspect and possibly Germany, where sterilisation as a convenience, is viewed as mutilation, and is illegal without sound medical reasons.

Alec.
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these quotes appear a little contradictory Alec
 
MileAMinute said:
You wouldn't second guess having your horse done...
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In the vast majority of cases, yes, I completely agree - although it could be argued, in the case of horses, that there may be valid reasons other than breeding for keeping a male horse entire. Of course it sets a high bar in terms of management, and I don't approve of keeping a stallion for whatever reason - breeding or temperament - if it means welfare is compromised.

If ensuring that reproduction is prevented is the primary concern, is vasectomy a reasonable alternative? I don't even know if this operation is done in dogs, but imagine it's relatively rare.
 
twiggy2 said:
these quotes appear a little contradictory Alec
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Not contradictory at all, or at least I fail to see it. Accepting of the fact that what ever research we quote, we can source what ever supports us and our argument!! My posts were in support of the fact that there is little which can't be denied, by someone.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
So under a competent judge, two male dogs are before him/her. One has been castrated, and the other is entire. Which one do you suppose that the judge will place before the other, considering that the judge will have an interest in the breed which they judge, and considers the breed description?

Alec.
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Ah but you just asked if they could be shown. :) Of course if the dogs were of equal merit I would place the entire dog first, not sure what I would do if the castrated dog were a far better specimen, but I don't think that would happen in my breed. However I do know that in numerically small breeds castrated dogs have won classes at ch show level and qualified for Crufts.
 
MileAMinute said:
It should be a no brainer. People should be responsible owners and neuter. You wouldn't second guess having your horse done, or your cat, (or at least I hope people wouldn't!) so why not a dog?
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we don't have mares done (I realise we can't but still, we cope with them if you see what I mean) and in other countries, stallions are not routinely done and not all of them are used for breeding. For me, having a gelding is about giving the quality of life-company of others etc but none can deny it makes a big difference to their physicality. Same with tom cats from what I've seen-although obviously cats should be done the two rescue cats were done as 3/4yos and both were lovely big, strong cats.

I don't care what others do either, I won't routinely castrate a young dog again.
 
I agree with mile a minute up to a point..

"It should be a no brainer. People should be responsible owners " full stop.

Not all entire dogs are going to sire a litter if the owner is responsible and keeps the dog from roaming and under control.If I could not fulfill this I would neuter my dog. All my females have ,and will be spayed.
Thie male I do have is my first after decades of having females. Myboy ,now 17 m,has never lifted a leg indoors,humped or roamed.He is a sensitive character and I understand he needs his hormones to have his confidence and reach his physical maturity before I ever consider neutering. As he is ,I am happy to leave him entire.

a cat is not under your control...seasons are too frequent...unwanted .pregnancy is very likely thus I would spay a cat.
a horse is too big to control(entire stallion) so gelding is more practical to manage..
Every dog is different...temperaments differ,breeds differ,timing of maturity and growth rates will differ...so depending on all factors only the owner can decide whether neutering is best for the male.
re females,I believe at least one season,better two are recommended to allow the female to mature physically and mentally before she is spayed.I do not believe any female needs a litter before she is spayed.

.....,,,

f Burton's link is excellent..the vet says everything I am trying to say,only better...well worth a read.
 
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