Dog owner being sued for £5m after rider was thrown from horse

YorksG

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The problem with teaching a totally reliable recall, in a secure field, is that you can't replicate the distractions that occur in the real world. A long line can work, as can starting early in the dogs life, but actually concentrating on your dog while out and about is one of the biggest requirements.
 

Fred66

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i'd have thought the ideal place for practicing recall which is not yet established, would be something like a dog field, not a beach where there are all kinds of randomers using the same space who might not appreciate your non-recalling dog approaching them.
Most beaches used by holidaymakers don’t allow dogs off leads (if at all) . If I go on a beach or other public area where dogs off leads are expressly allowed then I am prepared for the fact that I might have random visits from other peoples dogs.

Regarding this case then I am genuinely sympathetic to the person who has had his life changed, and if the dog did cause the accident then I hope he succeeds in at least part of his claim. However I am also aware of potential ramifications in respect of the outcome.
 

Birker2020

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Most beaches used by holidaymakers don’t allow dogs off leads (if at all) . If I go on a beach or other public area where dogs off leads are expressly allowed then I am prepared for the fact that I might have random visits from other peoples dogs.

Regarding this case then I am genuinely sympathetic to the person who has had his life changed, and if the dog did cause the accident then I hope he succeeds in his claim. However I am also aware of potential ramifications in respect of the outcome.
Every beach we went on over the past four of five years that is dog friendly allows dogs off leads. But we only have our dog of the lead if she is away from other dogs, so we find a more secluded part of the beach, we watch her like a hawk and as soon as another dog comes within her range or she puts her head up to look at one, the lead goes on.

Partner always operates this system if he is walking her over the park too. But this is more for other dogs than her as she borders slightly towards nervous aggressive with other dogs, growls, has never bitten but we are still wary.

Of course in practice this doesn't work every time as she has very selective hearing as she is a beagle and this frustrates my partner no end. As she is soooo very picky about treats, recall has never been a guaranteed exercise.

Here is the pest

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Fred66

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Every beach we went on over the past four of five years that is dog friendly allows dogs off leads. But we only have our dog of the lead if she is away from other dogs, so we find a more secluded part of the beach, we watch her like a hawk and as soon as another dog comes within her range or she puts her head up to look at one, the lead goes on. Partner always operates this system if he is walking her over the park too. But this is more for other dogs than her as she borders slightly towards nervous aggressive with other dogs, growls, has never bitten but we are still wary.

Of course in practice this doesn't work every time as she has very selective hearing as she is a beagle and this frustrates my partner no end. As she is soooo very picky about treats, recall has never been a guaranteed exercise.

My brothers dog is soft with people but doesn’t like other dogs invading her space, she avoids them. My brother regularly used to walk her off the lead as her recall was excellent and she never had any desire to go sniff another dog. It used to annoy him no end when other people’s off lead dogs would approach his and they would shout “it’s ok mines friendly“ he would reply with “well mines not” and then they would tell him his should be on a lead then. His reply was why ? it’s not wandering off and annoying anyone. My terriers have never met her as they wouldn’t respect her boundaries and it would be a bloodbath, she tolerates my Labrador as she puts him in his place and he stays there.
 

dreamcometrue

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There is only one person to blame for this and that is the dog’s owner. The dog was the aggressor and the cause of the events that led to the awful injuries of the rider. The dog’s owner allowed this to happen by not having his/ her dog under control.

I’ve been thrown from my pony by a dog running towards us and leaping over a wall. I saw the dog coming from a distance and had called to the owner to not let his (big) dog jump the wall but he had zero recall of the dog. My horse reared and span and I hit the ground on my lower back. Luckily I didn’t break it.

I had too many dog incidents in that area and I moved yards eventually.
 

AmyMay

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Most beaches used by holidaymakers don’t allow dogs off leads (if at all) .

That’s not accurate. Many have a dog ban in place between the end of May and 1st September. Where a dog is allowed (on a beach), as ever, they are required in law to be under control. Some beaches may have a bylaw requiring dogs to be on a lead. But they are very few.

If I go on a beach or other public area where dogs off leads are expressly allowed then I am prepared for the fact that I might have random visits from other peoples dogs.

So do I, unless I’m on a horse or with a child.
 

Birker2020

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My brothers dog is soft with people but doesn’t like other dogs invading her space, she avoids them. My brother regularly used to walk her off the lead as her recall was excellent and she never had any desire to go sniff another dog. It used to annoy him no end when other people’s off lead dogs would approach his and they would shout “it’s ok mines friendly“ he would reply with “well mines not” and then they would tell him his should be on a lead then. His reply was why ? it’s not wandering off and annoying anyone. My terriers have never met her as they wouldn’t respect her boundaries and it would be a bloodbath, she tolerates my Labrador as she puts him in his place and he stays there.
This is the problem, other dogs, not so much her.
She was constantly 'mauled' shall we say by a dog a woman who worked where my partner worked and she started bringing her dog into work and poor Summer was basically accosted all day long by this dog trying to hump her.

So she started cringing down, tail between her legs, scruff up growling at anything that came within a couple of metres of her. She's better with bitches as she knows they won't molest her but its such a shame as it totally destroyed her confidence.
 

Fred66

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That’s not accurate. Many have a dog ban in place between the end of May and 1st September. Where a dog is allowed (on a beach), as ever, they are required in law to be under control. Some beaches may have a bylaw requiring dogs to be on a lead. But they are very few.



So do I, unless I’m on a horse or with a child.
Hence why I put holiday makers and why I said dogs were only allowed on leads and sometimes not at all (ie banned). There is generally a “holiday” season and out of season more beaches are open to dogs and some allow them off the lead and some don’t.

I wasn’t saying that dogs should go “visiting“ just that if I didn’t want to be visited by random dogs then I would avoid places that allow them off leads.
 

Fred66

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There is only one person to blame for this and that is the dog’s owner. The dog was the aggressor and the cause of the events that led to the awful injuries of the rider. The dog’s owner allowed this to happen by not having his/ her dog under control.

I’ve been thrown from my pony by a dog running towards us and leaping over a wall. I saw the dog coming from a distance and had called to the owner to not let his (big) dog jump the wall but he had zero recall of the dog. My horse reared and span and I hit the ground on my lower back. Luckily I didn’t break it.

I had too many dog incidents in that area and I moved yards eventually.
Glad your incident didn’t result in a serious injury to you.

Regarding the case in question then its a good job you aren’t on the jury as the case is ongoing and not all evidence has been heard so I prefer to not jump to a conclusion ahead of it.
 

MagicMelon

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Regarding the case in question then its a good job you aren’t on the jury as the case is ongoing and not all evidence has been heard so I prefer to not jump to a conclusion ahead of it.

Thing is, what evidence is needed? Unless a plastic bag flew out as the dog started running under the horses legs and it was the bag that spooked te horse, I dont see how its a pretty obvious conclusion. The dog was off lead and outwith any control, it went under the horse (or at least close enough) for the horse to spook. Dog owner is at fault.
 

ThreeFurs

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"No riding school can guarantee a horse's behaviour under all circumstances (hence the BHS mantra of 'horses are unpredictable') and it is unreasonable to expect them to do so."

Absolutely agree. There was an incident here years back during a group beach ride, when in the middle of the ride one of the horses suffered a massive, fatal heart attack, and as it went into arrhythmia, it reared over backwards. The beginner rider was badly hurt. Really hard to predict this .. but it happened.
 

blitznbobs

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It will be an interesting case. Legally it will hinge on what was reasonable and what should be expected. Given the guy was an experienced rider, he actually bares more of the responsibility - the more 'expert' you are at something the more you should understand what could go on. Is it reasonable to expect that dogs are off the lead on a public beach? Is it 'normal' for some of those dogs to be out of control? Had the westie ever done anything like this before? Was the horse known to be scared of dogs? Did the rest of the group canter off and this guy halt? Could it be argued that this was the cause of 'the explosion'... So many questions that need to be answered to get a liable or not liable verdict... or a partial liability etc. Riding is a risk sport, a lot of dogs are badly behaved, not all horses tolerate dogs, a lot horses definitely don't like being separated from their group. All things that will be weighed up by the judge/ jury and a conclusion of liability reached... I'm keen to read the verdict tbh it will be an interesting read from a legal perspective and not quite as open and shut as some people might think.
 

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The law is the law — its not necessarily right

Eh??

The law IS the law and that's why this case is going to court; because its legally viable.

Also it shouldn't *have* to be law. How can not having your dog under control possibly be right??? I mean the law says that dogs should be under control and you think that is "not necessarily right"?! ?

Edited to fix an autocorrect
 
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blitznbobs

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Eh??

The law IS the law and that's why this case is going to court; because its legally viable.

Also it shouldn't *have* to be law. How can not having your dog under control possibly be right??? I mean the law says that dogs should be under control and you think that is "not necessarily right"?!
Edited to fix an autocorrect

I definitely think its right that a dog should be under control. I also think its right that a horse should be under control. The law sees riding a horse as a risk sport. The law also sees liability all over the place (someone falls down a broken staircase whilst they are burglarising your house can sue you for damages) as i say ‘the law is the law’ its not necessarily right but it is what it is.

All i am saying is the case isnt open and shut and even if we knew all the details it wont necessarily go one way or the other. Liability isnt just about right and wrong you have to show duty of care, causation, lots of elements- if for example he halted the horse because of the yappy dog and the rest galloped on, it is almost impossible to know if the horse bucked because it was reined in or because it saw the dog. If the riding school knew the horse was afraid of dogs and still let someone ride it on an open public beach then that suggests some liability. If i can see a Lot of angles the defence barrister could take then a good defence barrister will see more and all he/she needs to do is muddy the water enough to make the case unclear to anyone. Should a dog be undercontrol . Yes. Does that mean a court will find the dog owner liable - not at all.

I think it shpuld definitely go to court im just saying im nit sure what the outcome would be… but im v interested to find out.
 

ycbm

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If I go on a beach or other public area where dogs off leads are expressly allowed then I am prepared for the fact that I might have random visits from other peoples dogs.


I'm partially sighted. I can't see to my far right from half way up, down to the floor and across my feet. If a dog runs under my feet it's a series hazard to me. Tripping at my age could result in broken bones. A major cause of death in people a bit older than me is a broken hip.

Since being close to being attacked when a man nearly couldn't hold his rottweilers, who went for me, I am also very wary of dogs I don't know. Some people are very afraid of dogs, to the point of terror. Should they never go on a beach?

Children can easily be intimidated or knocked over by a dog. Is there a height limit these random dogs should have to abide by before they "visit" a human without invitation?

Why should anyone ever have to put up with other people's dogs running up to them anywhere?

Why does anyone think they have a right to impose their dog(s) on anyone else?
.
 

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We are surrounded be beaches and the nearest is 1 mile from my yard. A few years ago a yard teen and her horse boxed to the beach, with her mum. Although the beach is 1 mile away, it does involve a very busy main road which is the main route through from the top of the Wirral.
I was happily mucking out when I was met by the sound of hooves and teens panicked horse appeared, saddle under belly, hi viz trailing and white with foam.
After an initial panic where I had visions of teen lying in a road, I found out that they’d been chased by a dog on the beach, horse had ditched teen and galloped home. By some miracle, as he galloped from side road to main road, the traffic had been backed up by a road sweeper.
I rarely to never use the beach, despite it being so close. Its dog heaven on there and you just can’t trust people, sadly.

I have 3 dogs myself, but if we encounter a horse out and about, I call JD to me (she is brilliant around horses fwiw so I don’t need to put her on lead as she won’t leave my side until I say) and I get hold of the two little ones until horse is well passed. I have trained them all recall with the help of tasty treats, so know I can get them to come in any circumstance.
Our favourite dog walking area is open to horse riders as well. Think that has helped my dogs become accustomed to them out and about, but we do occasionally see a dog owner struggling to get a dog away from a horse.
 

Ambers Echo

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Most beaches used by holidaymakers don’t allow dogs off leads (if at all) . If I go on a beach or other public area where dogs off leads are expressly allowed then I am prepared for the fact that I might have random visits from other peoples dogs.

We spend all summer at a beach. My dog likes paddling with the kids but when they want to swim properly I call her back to me as she’d try to swim for too long otherwise. Last summer she started taking the straightest line back to me - over other peoples picnic rugs and towels and straight through the middle of their beach camps ?? So we’ve stopped allowing that now but the people on that beach were very good natured about it. There were plenty of dogs around and people were very accepting. Even an obedient dog can cause an accident - knocking someone over while being recalled. But I don’t think that is any excuse for allowing your dog to be out of control. That’s like saying drink driving is ok because sober people crash sometimes too. The risk of an issue is so much higher.
 

ILuvCowparsely

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I don't see why the riding school should be blamed, the guy was riding fine till the damn dog chased.

Otherwise where would it stop.

Blame the hire company for an accident while your hiring the car or van.
Blame the supermarket for you dropping your eggs outside the shop


Sorry Dog owner responsible and rider sadly should not involve the stables, he was the one in charge of the horse.
 

CanteringCarrot

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I'm not sure exactly how the suit was filed and worded/how the blame or responsibility was placed on the riding school. I'd also think that you must sign a waiver of sorts before the ride? Not sure how that all works with riding schools/holiday rides over there.
 

blitznbobs

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I don't see why the riding school should be blamed, the guy was riding fine till the damn dog chased.

Otherwise where would it stop.

Blame the hire company for an accident while your hiring the car or van.
Blame the supermarket for you dropping your eggs outside the shop


Sorry Dog owner responsible and rider sadly should not involve the stables, he was the one in charge of the horse.

You can definitely sue the hire company if you crash and they have to show the car was in good repair … if they cant then they could be deemed liable
 

blitznbobs

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I don't see why the riding school should be blamed, the guy was riding fine till the damn dog chased.

Otherwise where would it stop.

Blame the hire company for an accident while your hiring the car or van.
Blame the supermarket for you dropping your eggs outside the shop


Sorry Dog owner responsible and rider sadly should not involve the stables, he was the one in charge of the horse.

What if the horse had only been backed for a week or was known to have kissing spines And regularly dumped riders at that exact spot ?? Until you know all the details its not possible to comment really.
 

ycbm

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What if the horse had only been backed for a week or was known to have kissing spines And regularly dumped riders at that exact spot ?? Until you know all the details its not possible to comment really.

I think it's still possible to comment that the dog should not have been under the horse. I understand your argument that there may not be legal liability for the injuries but I can't accept that the owner of the dog was not still at fault for allowing their dog to be under a horse they didn't know.


.
 
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