Dog reactive dog.... help please!

lexiedhb

lexiedhb

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Ok so firstly thankies to all who advised on Dex's humping/arm grabbing- the humping has stopped completely, and the arm/sleve grabbing is MUCH less often and now dealable with (in that it does not end in a wrestle, and stops seconds rather than minutes after it has begun). Took tips from ALL those that replied and cos you lot are so clever it works.:D

The only remaining issue is the MASSIVE over reaction he has to other dogs- we have got to the point where if they are far enough away he can be easily distracted with treats (that would be fridge raiders then- work wonders), but sometimes- mainly if a dog is off lead and legging it about he just goes off on one- the noise is AMAZING- and scary to alot of folk.

Now I KNOW this dog is not aggressive towards other dogs..... OH's mum has a JRT, that we walk with, he says hello then ignores her, and have also been out with other dogs, who he is fine with (of all shapes and sizes). Also if we happen to be in a situation where dog/dog contact cannot be avoided (Im trying to make Dex behave and someones off lead dog comes over to say hi anyway) he is fine with them... if a little enthusiastic, he was the same when we walked him with the dogs from kennels. :rolleyes:

The fact other dogs will still come over to say hi dispite the noise speaks volumes about what he is "saying" in my mind too.

So I know he can not be trusted off lead (unless it is in a seriously secure field- like we had in Wales last week- he had a ball!! :D) so how can I stop him sounding like satans dog,lunging, totally ignoring me and any form of food/toy, trying to get to any dog he sees within a 20m radius? Is distraction the only way? Keep exposing him?

It has got better- but compared to everything else is the one sticking point we have, as in, enjoying a nice quiet pint in the pub garden, another dog walks in (ignoring Dex) and all hell breaks loose.......
 
If he really is wanting to just get to the dog use that to your advantage.

Use that as his reward.

3 strikes and your out rule works well for us.

When you are walking and he gets to the point of starting to freak out (above threshold) turn around and walk away until he is under threshold again.

You can do this 3 times. On the third time if he is not calm you leave for good and do not come back to that dog until your next session.

The leaving thing depends on where you are on your walk for us its game over and we go home and i will finish their exercise later in the day.

You can use all the treats and distractions you want to get him to stay under threshold (lots of nice voice and focus training) but when he gets over threshold you have to do the above
 
Thanks Katie... yes we have used walking away, but it is actually a hell of a job to move said mutt!!- keeps tuning back etc..... and then we walk away straight into the path of another dog..... will try harder with this thank you x
 
lexiedhb said:
Thanks Katie... yes we have used walking away, but it is actually a hell of a job to move said mutt!!- keeps tuning back etc..... and then we walk away straight into the path of another dog..... will try harder with this thank you x
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Yeah its something you have to be persistent with for a long time.

Have you thought about a halti or similar so you have some head control.

Also if he has got worked up you have walked to far and he is already over threshold. You need to turn before that.
 
We do have a halti yes.... but he will not move further than the length of our garden in it. Tried everyday for 2 weeks just around the home but he will not accept it, would not leave our drive way in it point blank!- Tried just having it on him but he continually paws his face, until it bled (daft critter) try for longer?

Maybe I need to adjust where we walk as sometimes literally a dog will come out of a pathway and I do not have time to walk away before Dex is too close and kicking off...
 
Would you consider hand feeding?

For when he is 'under threshold'.

All food comes from your pocket/hand, not a bowl (depending on what you feed of course)

It is a system and you must stick to it but it is very helpful for getting focus and is not cruel, just a different way of feeding the dog.

Re the Halti, keep it on forever if you have to, it won't kill him.
He won't walk further than the length of your garden? He's doing a good job training you, not the other way around, in the nicest possible way :p

Do NOT avoid areas where you will meet other dogs (adjust walking times) and do not drag him away the minute you see one - this will heighten his frustration when he DOES see another dog.
Sure, he might squeal but it isn't actually harming anyone.
I used to drag my dog away, fearing that people would think I had a horrible GSD, but that made him worse. So now if he squeals he will get a correction and then immediate reward for paying me attention - correct - wow, what was that, mum - looking at me, reward.
If he makes a fuss, I just laugh and say 'sorry, he likes the sound of his own voice' 'oh dear, he's singing again' 'lucky you, getting a serenade' 'sorry, he doesn't get out much' 'don't mind him, your dog can come and say hi as long as it doesn't get up in his face' etc, make light of it.

You need to put your Tough Mammy head on. He's just a dog, don't let him dictate where and when you go.

How's your class going? A good class should be practising recall/regaining focus from distraction.
 
Thanks CC... I know the halti thing is my fault but when he lays down with it on NOTHING I do will shift him- even leaving him where he is- just paws at his face until it bleeds will continue though!!

Yes training class is all about the focus on us, and there, with 30 other dogs on the field, he is actually much better.... although we do not get less than 10m away from them. Recall too- although Dex has long line issues!!! Just when he gets "above threshold" as you guys put it a bomb could go off behind him and he would still be kicking and screaming to get to the other dog. I guess it is just time and consistancy.

I have not been avoiding areas with dogs, as I do think he needs the exposure, but maybe I will try and stick to opener (is that even a word?) spaces so other dogs do not have to pass in close proximity?

The noise Dex makes does tend to scare other owners into running away with their dogs, unless they are decent in which case I do do the above "just wants to be everyones mate" "yes yes very exciting".

Thankies for the advice.
 
You've just described exactly how Dax was 12 months ago - I've got to head back to work soon but tomorrow I'll do a quick write-up of how we overcame this if you'd like? With all due credit to Cayla, CC and co. :p
 
I am far far far from an expert but I recently got a Gentle Leader (which is as far as I can tell exactly the same as a halti in action, just less webbing). H did the stop and refuse to move thing too. The GL comes with an instruction manual and it recommends basically chattering away to your dog excitedly (a bit like an escapee from the loony bin) and keep walking. Do not stop. Unless your dog weighs an absolute tonne I'm sure you'll be able to keep him going. My friend has a 40kg Golden Retriever and bought a GL after seeing Harleys and he lay down and stratched at his face and she managed to just keep him moving.

The GL instructions says they tend to accept it (as in start walking normally) after 10 mins of walking.
 
Would be much appreciated BC.

It is the getle leader I have Galaxy..... did all that it said in the book.... nadda, fresh roast chicken got him to the end of the garden....

However we have just got back from a 3 ish hour walk- it would have taken an hour and a half, but I was not giving in, and Dex will now walk in it- woop woop (being tough mummy as per CC's instructions!!)- there was muchly laying down, pawing face, rolling around trying to get it off, but hey, while he was doing that he wasnt going mad trying to get to other dogs!!

Am I right in thinking that taking him to the pub is the wrong thing to do (he is also reactive to other stuff, but not AS reactive, odd things mainly like people carrying chairs, certain men etc). Should I be focusing on getting his attention 100% of the time in the garden, then at the park at times when there are few distractions, then more, then heavily dog populated areas and then move on to things like the pub? OH seems to think that he just has to learn to deal with it but I am not so sure.....
 
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It depends, we can't assess a dog on here, but personally speaking I might just build up his confidence and focus out in the garden, then the park, then up the street, then to the pub - if he is a sensitive sort, flooding him will blow his brains. But like I say, no one can assess that over the interweb, ask your trainer or judge it yourself.
 
Not much to add to the good advice already given, but I use a Gencon headcollar, which they seem to accept more readily than a halti/gentle leader type. The control is from behind the ear, more like a normal collar rather than from the nose, which they seem to prefer. Having said that Evie did throw herself on the floor, drag her face along the ground etc and did graze her face doing this, but cruel owner that I am I just kept walking and dragged her along with me, she got the message eventually.:p
 
That' what i had to do yesterday MM....

I think I need the under chin thing, as really need to be able to turn his head to me......
 
So we actually had a non event hours walk just now (well apart from still pawing face, rolling head around on the floor)- love this headcollar.

Eagerly awating BC and how she made Dax so lovely!!
 
hmmmm well the headcollar defo works for me, OH does not like it because dex doesn't- typical man!

So how did you overcome the huge dog reaction thing? Lala

We have had him 2 months now, and it really is not getting any better, in fact worse, but I think that is because he no longer gets daily interaction with other dogs that he did in kennels.... so now it is massively exciting.....
 
Oh now come on BC, how long can it possibly take to type 'big stick with a nail through the end'?:p:D

All I would say OP is that two months is nothing really, he is still going to be settling into his new home and with you. It won't be until you look back at this time in a few months time that you will really be able to see that.:)
 
Right, for us, exposure was key. You need to attempt to normalise being around other dogs, rather than it being the terribly exciting exception.

The very best format for that would be a training class, with all dogs on leads, preferably a nice small group to begin with (30 sounds far too many at this stage, we started out with six so all the dogs quickly became familiar (boring!) to each other) week in, week out, a couple of times a week if you can arrange it.

The most useful exercise we learnt in that scenario was to have all dogs walking around the (large) field, on a lead, occasionally stopping to sit/down/paw etc., being encouraged to walk to heel, make eye contact and so on to keep them focused. Every now and again you'd make eye contact with another owner and mutually approach, dog to dog. Ignoring any pulling/lunging towards the other dog the dogs would be allowed to approach each other and, in the time it took to say "Good morning, how are you!" to the other owner, have a sniff, touch noses and then off you'd go, walking off at a brisk pace with a cheery 'heel' or 'this way' and dragging the dog behind you if necessary. The whole encounter would take maybe five seconds, just enough to relieve the frustration of 'OMG it's a dog it's a dog!!' but not enough to let them escalate into a frenzy, playful or not.

The natural progression from this is to have all the dogs on long lines working in big circles around each other - dogs approach each other, brief sniff allowed, "Dexy COME! Gooood boooooooy" and reward, even if that means physically reeling him in for the first session. Each positive interaction, however brief, is rewarded and any lunging or howling just ignored, reel in, walk away and come round again.

CC is right about interactions out in the real world, I still have "sorry, she's a rescue, still learning" on the tip of my tongue if it all goes to pot - doesn't matter that it's not really true, if it gets the person with the manic wriggly spaniel that's just triggered her into manic lunging to put their bloody dog on a lead and stop it chasing us. :p

There's probably a bit more, I'll come back to this when I've had a think. :)
 
Thanks so much BC- will add club to the shopping list... and several nails!

When I said 30ish- it is not 30 all together in one class, there may be 8 in the pups, 6 in the adults who didnt get to go training, 8 in the intermediate, and 8 in the advanced.... all in seperate bits of the field.

We work on the "edge" of classes, trying to get D to focus on us, not the others, which on the training field does seem to work. I think our trainer would have him muzzled (you dont kick off if in handcuffs) and in a class if it was not for a rather nasty American bulldog, who is in Asbo class "with us"- the trainer does not want Dex to make tons of noise and set her off as apparently she can be a nasty piece of work- as in you can not approach her, or make eye contact if she does not know you-

We are going tonight, so I will push him to let us get Dex into a class so we can do more of what you say- failing that am going to stick him in a cab and send him to you!!!
 
LOL- Lala

Dex was how can i say.... erm AMAZING at training last night- loving this headcollar.... on the training field, did not kick off once- this does not happen!! :)
 
Agree with Spuds, two months is no time, I worked with my non-rescue for almost a year to make him 'normal' and he still has his moments...that's just dogs for you, some people are lucky to have an easy dog, some people get the tricky ones, but I know which I prefer, it's made me a stronger person and he has been a great teacher/opened me to a lot of opportunities :)

Glad you had a good session :)
 
lexiedhb said:
LOL- Lala

Dex was how can i say.... erm AMAZING at training last night- loving this headcollar.... on the training field, did not kick off once- this does not happen!! :)
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Sadly this did not last- and he does not really seem to be making any improvement- in fact he now seems to be fighting the gentle leader (only when kicking off). Although we are now working 2m from a class, so I suppose the stimulus is now closer

All I wanted was a nice doogie to come everywhere with me - i know I know it is just time- but can get ya down when every walk is just a constant survey of the landscape for potential problems....... :confused::(:confused:
 
Sorry to resurrect this but those who have had dogs with this issue would you have expected to see an improvement by now?
 
If he isnt getting continued exposure improvement will be slow, if for example he was going to training every night then I think you would see gradual improvement. But we live in the real world and you go as often as you can.

You do have a goal that trainer in October to keep you from being too downhearted and I think that will work wonders for him.

Keep doing what you are doing, develop a thick skin and tick off the days on the calender.

My late lamented Fred came to me at 2yrs old and was very dog reactive in that if anything barked he wanted to kill them. I went to a dog trainer who bred and did obedience with Dobes so understood them and said the problem was me, he just wanted to protect me. If I allowed him to kick off and get wound up he would bite the lead in frustration and me so I had to be really quick to read his body language. Luckily he never bit me but once they get to a certain state its all instinct . Fred improved so much and was a very obedient loving dog but I had to watch him like a hawk because he was never 100% with other dogs he didnt know who barked. He had lots of doggy friends who did bark and he didnt have a problem with them.
 
Ok, sometimes in these situations esp with higher drive breeds you need to be firm and check the behaviour and 9 times out of ten when Im working with folk they struggle with this, Lady La la has problems with Tye in regard to this, he is not aggressive he just gets frustrated like dex and begins to rear and buck:D and whinge and yowl, with me I have gone with the option I think will most help L and have in-coorperated treats (how lovely of me):p but I have been firm with him, we are at the stage where 2 days ago some dick head let their husky plough on over, we had one rear:D and he was checked accordingly, given the treat and he (ignored and trotted on) I was over the moon with the boy, esp as the husky was in his face and prancing beside him.

In general I will check the behaviour, however if working with another dog then I may decide to use the option/methos I think the owner will manage.
 
As I have said many times before, it took us about a year and he is still not perfect, probably never will be, but is massively improved and I can read his body language and spot the warning signs much more easily.
 
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