Dogs, dealers and organised crime

[Odyssey]

One of Hope Rescue's pocket bullies that was featured on the show (Keanu) is up for rehoming on their site (page 5) now - the deformity of his front legs is unbelievable. https://www.hoperescue.org.uk/dogs-for-adoption

Hope Rescue (and others with a conscience) are constantly picking up the pieces, having to spend thousands of pounds on fixing the health issues of, primarily, fashionable bull breeds and shar-peis, and having to make the sad decisions when they're unfixable. The money and kennel space used on these dogs - the breeders of which are making a fortune and don't give a **** about where they end up - could be going to actual strays, racing greyhounds etc who are now ending up being pts in pounds because there are no free rescue places for them. I feel so sorry for people involved in rescue right now, it must be a heartbreaking slog at times.

Yes, I feel so sorry for those picking up the pieces of all the unwanted dogs/those their owners can no longer afford. I do really question spending vast sums of money on these disabled and deformed dogs though, and some of the xl bully types probably have dubious temperaments too. I know it's very easy for me to say as an outsider, but I think the money would be better spent on healthy dogs which are likely to make great pets in the right homes and have a much better quality of life. The poor dog with the backwards legs is a case in point, and is likely to need costly veterinary treatment as it's unlikely to stay sound into old age.

It absolutely breaks my heart to think of all the sweet, gentle greyhounds that would make fantastic pets being put down. They're vastly overbred to provide sport and entertainment for a small number of people, some don't even make it to the racetrack. Thousands of healthy dogs with wonderful temperaments discarded every year when they're injured, or no longer fast enough. Some are lucky enough to find lovely homes, but there aren't nearly enough homes for them all. Many will be PTS, and some will face an unimaginably cruel fate. The unluckiest get exported to China and other countries where animal welfare doesn't exist.The end of dog racing can't come soon enough for me.

 

[SilverLinings]

It's an interesting thought, but I would have thought wearing a muzzle would add to the intimidating look?

I think their argument was that if even the cute cockapoos/maltese terriers/pomeranians/etc were wearing muzzles then it would loose the cache of looking 'hard'.

 

[SilverLinings]

One of Hope Rescue's pocket bullies that was featured on the show (Keanu) is up for rehoming on their site (page 5) now - the deformity of his front legs is unbelievable. https://www.hoperescue.org.uk/dogs-for-adoption

Hope Rescue (and others with a conscience) are constantly picking up the pieces, having to spend thousands of pounds on fixing the health issues of, primarily, fashionable bull breeds and shar-peis, and having to make the sad decisions when they're unfixable. The money and kennel space used on these dogs - the breeders of which are making a fortune and don't give a **** about where they end up - could be going to actual strays, racing greyhounds etc who are now ending up being pts in pounds because there are no free rescue places for them. I feel so sorry for people involved in rescue right now, it must be a heartbreaking slog at times.

I appreciate that the rescue are trying to help and that the dog is someone else's fault, but I find it hard to imagine that Keanu isn't in constant pain with the level of limb deformity he has. They are being very responsible by saying he needs to be rehomed close to the rescue centre so he can access further treatment, but I'm not sure that the kinder thing for him (and for the other, healthier rescues who could be helped in his place) wouldn't be PTS.

 

[some show]

I appreciate that the rescue are trying to help and that the dog is someone else's fault, but I find it hard to imagine that Keanu isn't in constant pain with the level of limb deformity he has.

I would've thought so too, but they did post on their facebook that he didn't show any pain responses at the vets and a pain relief trial didn't result in any change of behaviour, so the vets believe he's happy enough at the moment - and said it would be best to manage him systematically and monitor him over time (hence the adopter needing to be close to the centre like you said). We all know dogs are pros at hiding pain though, so who knows.

The end of dog racing can't come soon enough for me.

100% with you there. I feel my boy was extremely lucky to get out of the situation he ended up in. Scotland are on the right track at the moment - and the US, surprisingly!

 

[AdorableAlice]

The first step is to lobby the government to rule that no one other than a qualified veterinary surgeon can collect from a dog and perform AI on a bitch. A further step would be to legislate that only health screened dogs can be bred from and no breeding from genetically altered dogs allowed. There are so many breeds that have been bred to achieve extremes to the detriment of the dog.

As was highlighted in the programme, the prolific breeders living a life of luxury who were caught by regulatory services, were fined quite heavily with costs awarded against them, they ceased breeding and keeping bitches, but carried on, perfectly legally to keep stud dogs and perform AI.

The most effective method of stopping it would be for the public to stop funding the back street breeders, that will not happen any time soon. Secondly, the government need to fund the teams that have to deal with the problem much more effectively. For instance in my area there is one officer dealing with a one thousand square mile area, there is no way that works, plus when prosecutions are possible a decision has to be made to decide if spending public money is appropriate. In my area the funding went on prosecuting a huge illegal tobacco ring rather than illegal dog breeding.

It was a heart breaking programme and the reporter was very brave to get tangled up in what she did, she was dealing with highly dangerous people.

 

[stormox]

These aren't back Street breeders though. It is an international money making operation. I looked on Muscletone Bullies kennels Ireland and they have posted a video from Muscletone Bullies Australia. The amount of money it must have taken to build their kennels is obscene. Thick gold chains even on the kid!

 

[AdorableAlice]

These aren't back Street breeders though. It is an international money making operation. I looked on Muscletone Bullies kennels Ireland and they have posted a video from Muscletone Bullies Australia. The amount of money it must have taken to build their kennels is obscene. Thick gold chains even on the kid!

Organised crime, but people are still buying from unlicensed suppliers.

 

[ester]

A fair few seem to run their own 'vet clinic' operations too though so they'd get round the AI thing easily.

 

[AdorableAlice]

A fair few seem to run their own 'vet clinic' operations too though so they'd get round the AI thing easily.

yes, it is really common and needs regulating.

 

[Jenko109]

I imagine many of the dogs who claim to have been sold for £X amount, were actually sold considerably cheaper. It's an easy way to launder money.

 

[SilverLinings]

The first step is to lobby the government to rule that no one other than a qualified veterinary surgeon can collect from a dog and perform AI on a bitch. A further step would be to legislate that only health screened dogs can be bred from and no breeding from genetically altered dogs allowed. There are so many breeds that have been bred to achieve extremes to the detriment of the dog.
.

I completely agree, I can't imagine that all of the non-vets carrying out AI know what they are doing, know how to spot problems or are mindful of the dog/bitch's welfare- in fact, I imagine that the majority aren't.

I also think that incestuous breeding/in-breeding (or 'line-breeding' or whatever other euphemism people want to use) should be outlawed under the animal welfare act, in all species. It has been well-known for some time that incest in any species (cousin:cousin or closer) causes an extremely high risk of severe health problems.

Through work I have seen the horrific results in human babies and children, and now when babies/children have genetic testing to determine the cause of their health problems the parents are always asked whether they are related in any way, even if 'just' as cousins (which is still legal in the UK, but any other closer relative marriage/sexual relationship is illegal).

There are other ways to breed for certain traits in animals without inbreeding and it's associated risks, but I also think intentionally breeding for a trait (or using it as a selling point when advertising puppies) that is to the detriment of the dog's health (e.g. for a colour that is linked to a health problem, for bigger skin rolls, for a flatter face etc) should be illegal under the welfare act.

 

[CorvusCorax]

It's really difficult to regulate inbreeding when some full and affiliate FCI member kennel clubs will register insanely closely bred puppies, 2-2, 3-3 etc.

 

[SilverLinings]

It's really difficult to regulate inbreeding when some full and affiliate FCI member kennel clubs will register insanely closely bred puppies, 2-2, 3-3 etc.

I quite frankly think that it should be a welfare issue if anything cousin:cousin or closer is mated (so no siblings, parent/offspring, grandparent/offspring etc). I understand that that might make it potentially difficult for UK owners if competing at FCI/international level, but the quality of the puppies should be better over time by not in-breeding.

I suppose it could be complicated regarding importing show/competition dogs, e.g. do you let someone import an in-bred puppy, or do you say that they can only import an in-bred dog if they are all ready an adult (to stop competition with the UK puppy market) and say that they then can't be used for breeding in the UK? It's similar to the problem of allowing ear-cropped dogs to be imported when doing it here is illegal.

I would hope that at some point in the future ALL countries would see that in-breeding is a serious welfare issue, so someone is going to have to be the first country to legislate against it.

 

[maisie06]

One of Hope Rescue's pocket bullies that was featured on the show (Keanu) is up for rehoming on their site (page 5) now - the deformity of his front legs is unbelievable. https://www.hoperescue.org.uk/dogs-for-adoption

Hope Rescue (and others with a conscience) are constantly picking up the pieces, having to spend thousands of pounds on fixing the health issues of, primarily, fashionable bull breeds and shar-peis, and having to make the sad decisions when they're unfixable. The money and kennel space used on these dogs - the breeders of which are making a fortune and don't give a **** about where they end up - could be going to actual strays, racing greyhounds etc who are now ending up being pts in pounds because there are no free rescue places for them. I feel so sorry for people involved in rescue right now, it must be a heartbreaking slog at times.

I think it would be kinder to put him to sleep - poor dog,

 

[ester]

It's really difficult to regulate inbreeding when some full and affiliate FCI member kennel clubs will register insanely closely bred puppies, 2-2, 3-3 etc.

Quite, inbreeding definitely isn’t a back yard breeder only issue.
westminster winner… only 1 great grand father … presuming is still allowed as a few years ago now.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I mean you don't have to look that far, I've seen dogs from half brother/half sister matings registered by the IKC.

 

[JJS]

I just feel bad for the dogs, because they'll undoubtedly go the same way as every other "tough-guy breed" before them. A minority will fall into the wrong hands, make their way into the headlines, and be demonised. From then on, any dog involved in an attack that looks remotely like the breed in question will be labelled as one, until they end up with a terrible reputation and rescues are overflowing with them. We've already seen it happen to German Shepherds, Dobermans, Rottweilers, and most recently Staffies. Then there'll be the people who call for the breed to be banned without ever having had an interaction with them - and who question why anyone else would want to own them except for social cachet.

I actually ran into a couple of very sweet XL Bullies on holiday in Scotland last year. We got talking to their owner over their garden fence and then they came out to say "hi". Both had delightful temperaments and were beautifully behaved, mannerly dogs. I've also met many other bull breeds with fantastic temperaments, including owning two Staffies. All have had similarly nice natures. I'm all for banning bad breeders, but that goes for any breed, TBH!

This article - on Pitbulls rather than XL Bullies - makes some really interesting points. It's an older article but still contains a lot of very relevant facts and insights: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/eradicate-pit-bulls-not-l_b_5535996?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000044

 

[druid]

The fertility clinic thing isn't just these criminal/bully breeders though. The fertility clinics that have opened up after a two day course doing scanning, AI and collections are frightening. I had a bitch for a second opinion recently (pregnancy check). They showed the still of the "puppy" from the ultrasound taken at a fertility clinic...it was a lovely image of a kidney

 

[MurphysMinder]

I think it would be kinder to put him to sleep - poor dog,

I've just seen a post by the rescue that he has been put to sleep.

 

[some show]

Yep, from Hope Rescue's facebook:

'He was only 8 months old when he arrived and still not fully grown. As he grew and gained muscle this has unavoidably put more pressure onto his joints. The vets felt Keanu was now beginning to show pain responses in his front legs, and as he is still developing this would only deteriorate further. Over the last few weeks as the weather has begun to warm slightly, we have also noticed that Keanu was struggling with extreme shortness of breath.
After a lengthy and difficult discussion with our vets we sadly agreed that complex surgery to help Keanu’s breathing wouldn’t be in his best interests when he's also beginning to show pain in his legs.'

 

[Jenko109]

Very sad but I'm glad to read they have done right by this dog now.

 

[splashgirl45]

I’m glad to read that he has been PTS, poor boy , at last a bit of commmen sense

 

[scruffyponies]

I'm old enough to remember when GSD's were the 'demon dog' of choice... then it was dobermans, then rottweilers, then pittbulls, now XL bullies.

Truth is that some people shouldn't own animals, and the latest 'hard dog' breed will suffer for it, whether individually through maltreatment and poor discipline, or as a breed, through horrific inter-breeding and reputational damage.

Time to consider compulsory castration of the violent men who are the actual problem.