Dogs, footpaths and horses

[SEL]

My last yard the footpath went diagonally across the fields - very inconvenient. One of mine chases dogs so I had electric fence up and polite signs which dog walkers still ignored. Zero recall as usual.

Watched a very tense situation where a spaniel was wandering around with my mare following. Owner squeaking away being ignored. Fortunately she didn't trigger the chase instinct and instead had a good roll in fox poo. I enjoyed her owners reaction to that when she finally got her to come back.

My YO lost chickens to dogs off the lead too.

 

[VictoriaSponge]

Thanks for the thoughts all,
@Exasperated that is so terribly sad and an awful way to lose a horse. That’s for the legal info I’ll look into it

If you are going to stay there it may be worth investing in deer fencing ie 1.8m It won't be cheap but may be worth it alternatively long fence posts and 2 runs of stock fence to get the height. Or perhaps one run of stock fence and 2 runs of barbed wire on the top (with or without a run of electric) to stop them reaching over.

I think this would work well, it’s certainly something that I think is worth investing in. Until then I think I’ll run two parallel lines of electric tape as @AutumnDays suggested which will be run off mains which will make it a little more of a robust deterrent.

The local farmer in my previous post keeps sheep, and will shoot to kill. It usually makes the papers, and dog walkers avoid the area for months after an incident. I have just moved house partly because dogs were allowed to pee all over the flower displays at the front of the house, and relieve themselves on the parking area at the rear of the house. Any chance of diverting the footpath?

We did enquire about the possibility of moving the footpath shortly after buying the house but there is no motivation other than from our side as fortunately it does run along the hedge line and can be fenced off with relative ease, just a large pita

My friend had the same issue she fenced the path and put signs up but unfortunately someone's dog got trampled to death by one of her horses as it walked through off lead

It's a nightmare people are just bloody stupid.

It’s a such a shame because with a little common sense and responsibility on behalf of the dog owners there would be no issue. I cannot comprehend how you would willingly allow your animal (let alone the horse/cow/sheep involved) to be put in danger out of sheer ignorance.

OH is in favour of the shotgun, but I’ll leave that on the back burner for now.

 

[Pinkvboots]

It's a similar type situation where I live I don't have a footpath but I live opposite a wood that is popular for dog walking, I've had loose dogs running around in my fields on numerous occasions, dogs running along the lane not a person in sight.

Only last week I heard someone calling out for there dog, I did notice my horses kept walking to the back bit of the field and looking at something, I was on my drive clearing leaves, a car came along with a woman and a child shouting so I waved them down.

I said to her that the horses where looking over the back at something so might be worth going over there, thing is it's all farm crop fields so your not meant to be there.

Don't know if they found them but this kind of thing happens at least once a week.

Edited to add it was actually 2 very big dogs she had lost and she had at least 4 as there were 2 in the car I could see.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

There was an incident involving cattle and a dog in the fields that neighbour some of our boundary. I didn't witness it but did hear a lot of screeching as someone tried to recall their dog. There was a lot less trouble with off-lead dogs for a few months after that but I noticed yesterday that a man was playing with 3 dogs in one of the neighbouring fields, where there is a footpath but neither he nor the dogs were anywhere near the footpath. The cattle aren't out now, so the deterrent isn't there. We kept an eye out to make sure that neither the dogs nor the ball came onto our land. The owner appeared to turn round and go back the way he had come when he realised that we were outside for the duration. We now have 3 layers of electric fencing to reinforce the drystone wall and stock fencing but it seems that some dog owners don't trust their recall.

 

[Exasperated]

Thanks for the thoughts all,
@Exasperated that is so terribly sad and an awful way to lose a horse. That’s for the legal info I’ll look into it


I think this would work well, it’s certainly something that I think is worth investing in. Until then I think I’ll run two parallel lines of electric tape as @AutumnDays suggested which will be run off mains which will make it a little more of a robust deterrent.


We did enquire about the possibility of moving the footpath shortly after buying the house but there is no motivation other than from our side as fortunately it does run along the hedge line and can be fenced off with relative ease, just a large pita


It’s a such a shame because with a little common sense and responsibility on behalf of the dog owners there would be no issue. I cannot comprehend how you would willingly allow your animal (let alone the horse/cow/sheep involved) to be put in danger out of sheer ignorance.

OH is in favour of the shotgun, but I’ll leave that on the back burner for now.

When you corridor off the FP, ensure enough room for whatever machinery you use to cut the hedge. It is your legal responsibility to maintain the safe usable width of the right of way ( whatever category right of way), and safety of users is prioritised over DEFRA rules re bird nesting, etc.
If likely to ‘fluff up’ next summer, butcher your hedge back in winter to avoid later having to cut during nesting season. Without a fence, users can simply walk further into your field, so if you affect that, you must ensure their safe space.
Again, ordinary sheep netting is insufficient barrier against many dogs, you will need proper steel mesh - which maintains tension and lasts indefinitely, good luck.

 

[nikkimariet]

Personally - I would do what our neighbour has done and post and rail the footpath in and attached wire mesh along the bottom two rails to contain the dogs. something like this but mesh only to middle rail

View attachment 151656

100% would put this up. People will mostly do what they want unless given zero choice. Don’t give them the choice.

 

[YorksG]

People appear to believe that if land has a footpath across it, then any land it crosses or is adjacent to is fair game for their dog and/or children to run riot on. When they allow dogs to chase rabbits through sheep and horses they are oblivious to the potential harm they are doing to the livestock who's home that field is. I have said before that my grandfather was part of the mass trespass movement, he would be horrified to see what has evolved from that.

 

[Exasperated]

Thanks for the thoughts all,
@Exasperated that is so terribly sad and an awful way to lose a horse. That’s for the legal info I’ll look into it


I think this would work well, it’s certainly something that I think is worth investing in. Until then I think I’ll run two parallel lines of electric tape as @AutumnDays suggested which will be run off mains which will make it a little more of a robust deterrent.


We did enquire about the possibility of moving the footpath shortly after buying the house but there is no motivation other than from our side as fortunately it does run along the hedge line and can be fenced off with relative ease, just a large pita


It’s a such a shame because with a little common sense and responsibility on behalf of the dog owners there would be no issue. I cannot comprehend how you would willingly allow your animal (let alone the horse/cow/sheep involved) to be put in danger out of sheer ignorance.

OH is in favour of the shotgun, but I’ll leave that on the back burner for now.

Interim, before (or whilst) trialling a corridor with temporary electric, and dependent on your exterior fencing, could try removing whatever lower barrier there is to loose dogs escaping into the road.
Create a decent, dog-sized space, bit like a sheep creep, at the lowest level, next to the pedestrian gate / stile/ whatever is exiting the FP.
Dog walkers might prove less likely to take the risk of off-leash, altho wouldn’t prevent possible injuries to your horses if dogs run amok before reaching that exit.

 

[Spirit7]

We have a footpath running through our land, it’s not that busy in winter but does still tend to be frequented by a few dog walkers a day as it’s pretty dry. Most dogs are kept on a lead as the field backs onto a main road, but I’d say we have at least two regular visitors who let their dogs roam free in the field.

Although I don’t love the dogs running about the field, it’s not caused any issues yet nor been worth any conflict as I haven’t been using the field for turnout. It’s also not that easy to ask people to as keep their dogs close unless I’m actually in the field at the same time as them, I usually spot them from the house.

I went up this morning to put up some electric fencing to separate the footpath from the rest of the field in preparation to put the horses in there. By chance one of the regular off lead walkers was there at the same time and I very politely told him that it it won’t be a good idea to let dog off lead in the field when the horses are there, for dog nor horse. He was not interested and did not seem to comprehend that just because his dog “likes horses” I still did not want it running around the field with them. I did eventually get through to him but it’s concerning that the other owners may also have this attitude and lack of awareness. What do I do? I can’t patrol it, but nor can I have dogs chasing/getting kicked by horses or running onto the main road.

Had this exact conversation with my other half earlier today. “We are going to put polite please keep to the footpath and keep your dog under control signs up”. I had a letter recently complaining one of my horses (who loves all other animals and might lick one to death) was intimidating while she “stopped on the path to let the horses come and sniff her” with her off lead dog and puppy in her arms. God knows what she might have had in her pockets! My youngster would have thought the puppy was being bought to see him lol anyway she complained as she “waved her arms” and the horse turned and kicked in the air towards her (bucked). So I wrote back to the council to invite her for horse lessons to help us both. The council loved it and passed me details. I couldn’t risk my horse being recorded as dangerous as if there was an accident I could be criminally charged (small chance but there all the same). It’s a bit of a worry x edited to add there is no way I am fencing off the path - they are our fields and the path runs alongside a gate between fields so not really an option without limiting grazing although the field is rested.

 

[Highmileagereindeer]

Invite a neighbour to overwinter a few stirks - a 'Beware of the Bull' sign will work!

 

[Exasperated]

Invite a neighbour to overwinter a few stirks - a 'Beware of the Bull' sign will work!

Wish! But you maybe underestimate the levels of stupidity, there is just no bottom to the depths of ignorance with some people....

 

[rextherobber]

Had this exact conversation with my other half earlier today. “We are going to put polite please keep to the footpath and keep your dog under control signs up”. I had a letter recently complaining one of my horses (who loves all other animals and might lick one to death) was intimidating while she “stopped on the path to let the horses come and sniff her” with her off lead dog and puppy in her arms. God knows what she might have had in her pockets! My youngster would have thought the puppy was being bought to see him lol anyway she complained as she “waved her arms” and the horse turned and kicked in the air towards her (bucked). So I wrote back to the council to invite her for horse lessons to help us both. The council loved it and passed me details. I couldn’t risk my horse being recorded as dangerous as if there was an accident I could be criminally charged (small chance but there all the same). It’s a bit of a worry x edited to add there is no way I am fencing off the path - they are our fields and the path runs alongside a gate between fields so not really an option without limiting grazing although the field is rested.

I have fenced off the footpath and I have public liability insurance for exactly the scenario you've just described, I had visions of someone getting kicked in the head.... I'll take the limited grazing over that

 

[onemoretime]

Used to have this issue, most dog walkers very nice and reasonable, but only takes one.
The one: her whippet / lurcher chased my hunter round and round, a neighbour and I finally caught dog, called police , the wildlife and dogs Officer, who formally cautioned owner and advised that I could insist on the dog’s destruction for worrying.
Like a fool, I didn’t. A fortnight later, did it again in the snow, and my lovely horse broke his leg.
Her dog was shot shortly after, ripping up sheep.
You can corridor the footpath, check what width dimensions are already listed for it on your local authority’s Definitive Statement (ask Public Rights of Way person to provide exact footpath number and DS listing) and I’d let them know what you intend. That way they can confirm with you the exact line of the path is correct before you start expensive fencing.
You would be safest with permanent and full height mesh, something like StudFence, small dogs can wriggle through sheepnet, and vandal dog walkers can clip through it if determined.
If using electric, corridor will have to be wider with plenty of notifications.
It is a criminal offence for any dog to be out of control in a public place.
Unless this is designated ‘Access Land’ with a right to roam under CROW Act, the public’s only right of access is along the footpath, not your wider field.
Don’t risk confronting people, just do it.

OMG I am so sorry about your hunter, what a terrible situation, bluddy people!!

 

[Spirit7]

I have fenced off the footpath and I have public liability insurance for exactly the scenario you've just described, I had visions of someone getting kicked in the head.... I'll take the limited grazing over that

The council told the letter writer I had the right to graze my horses on my land unless it was a dangerous animal (which it’s not as many witnesses would state who use the path) and of course I have public liability insurance. I don’t see why I have to compromise my home or animals in this instance.

 

[rextherobber]

The council told the letter writer I had the right to graze my horses on my land unless it was a dangerous animal (which it’s not as many witnesses would state who use the path) and of course I have public liability insurance. I don’t see why I have to compromise my home or animals in this instance.

I think it's a compromise worth making - everyone's safe, my horses included.

 

[Exasperated]

The council told the letter writer I had the right to graze my horses on my land unless it was a dangerous animal (which it’s not as many witnesses would state who use the path) and of course I have public liability insurance. I don’t see why I have to compromise my home or animals in this instance.

You don’t have to, but live in a litigious world and may prefer proactivity to future remorse; or to being instructed by your insurance company to separate them if unlucky enough to have a serious claim. As in case of a local farmer, following trampling incident; as advocated by ‘Killer Cows’ pressure group; as increasingly advised by livestock insurers. Talk about social licence.
Animals are unpredictable, dogs or horses, with humans the most unreliable of all - in face of legislation, signage, plain common sense - some people insist on senseless behaviour, including that described by your complainant.
And if your own horse suffers, becoming wise after the event is extremely bitter, believe me.

 

[Spirit7]

You don’t have to, but live in a litigious world and may prefer proactivity to future remorse; or to being instructed by your insurance company to separate them if unlucky enough to have a serious claim. As in case of a local farmer, following trampling incident; as advocated by ‘Killer Cows’ pressure group; as increasingly advised by livestock insurers. Talk about social licence.
Animals are unpredictable, dogs or horses, with humans the most unreliable of all - in face of legislation, signage, plain common sense - some people insist on senseless behaviour, including that described by your complainant.
And if your own horse suffers, becoming wise after the event is extremely bitter, believe me.

I don’t think the lady who complained had senseless behaviour, she was just uneducated with horses which I offered to rectify much to the councils delight. I keep my paths clear and help the old people walks when they have them and deliver tea to them on our land. I use public foot paths all over and around where we live they all pass through grazing land freely (including a 5*livery yard across the road) just kissing gates and signage. I pay my insurance and I also never shoe my horses - my horses are far my likely to chase a dog then be chased as all taught correctly to do so under saddle- I think we all have opinions and what works for you now might not work for me. I’m not carving up an AONB like a cheap chicken run which the locals appreciate as do I and I was replying to the OP suggesting signage. Thanks for all your opinions and input.

 

[Highmileagereindeer]

Last night's Countryfile was interviewing a farmer who flagged up people and loose dogs as a major issue. Perhaps it's time the NFU put together some emotional TV footage pointing out responsibilities and the law, and show the clips at prime time watching, alongside the animal charity horror adverts. People do need educating that the countryside is not a free playground, it is actually someone's livelihood.

 

[Fransurrey]

Get a couple of sheep and then put up a sign saying loose dogs will be shot.

Years ago when I had the problem of a local dog worrying my ponies (to the point of colic), I was told by the dog warden that the Dangerous Dogs Act covered horses as livestock when it came to shooting. I won't have a field with footpath through it, now. Current yard has a couple and we constantly have idiots with loose dogs (and blind people who ignore the stile right in front of them and cross multiple electric fences as they get 'lost'). We've had slanging matches with people who refuse to comply and we are very rural. In fact, the locals are the worst and most entitled!

 

[Exasperated]

I don’t think the lady who complained had senseless behaviour, she was just uneducated with horses which I offered to rectify much to the councils delight. I keep my paths clear and help the old people walks when they have them and deliver tea to them on our land. I use public foot paths all over and around where we live they all pass through grazing land freely (including a 5*livery yard across the road) just kissing gates and signage. I pay my insurance and I also never shoe my horses - my horses are far my likely to chase a dog then be chased as all taught correctly to do so under saddle- I think we all have opinions and what works for you now might not work for me. I’m not carving up an AONB like a cheap chicken run which the locals appreciate as do I and I was replying to the OP suggesting signage. Thanks for all your opinions and input.

? Well, that’s all alright then, unsure of the issue when you wrote that you were a ‘bit worried’, post 39?

However, would respectfully suggest that if your horses live on a public footpath, and are ‘far more likely to chase a dog than be chased’, and it could be interpreted they’ve actually been taught to chase dogs (Post 47) - advertising that on social media is not a good idea.

(My own horse was differently educated, didn’t dream of kicking any hound, perhaps his undoing?)
Good luck!

 

[paddy555]

I don’t think the lady who complained had senseless behaviour, she was just uneducated with horses which I offered to rectify much to the councils delight. I keep my paths clear and help the old people walks when they have them and deliver tea to them on our land. I use public foot paths all over and around where we live they all pass through grazing land freely (including a 5*livery yard across the road) just kissing gates and signage. I pay my insurance and I also never shoe my horses - my horses are far my likely to chase a dog then be chased as all taught correctly to do so under saddle- I think we all have opinions and what works for you now might not work for me. I’m not carving up an AONB like a cheap chicken run which the locals appreciate as do I and I was replying to the OP suggesting signage. Thanks for all your opinions and input.

problem is it only needs one idiot person to get themselves killed or injured and then it does become the landowners problem.

I despair of the public with horses.
One of our popular village greens often has feral ponies grazing.
We stopped with the horses for coffee, standing holding the horses and a family came up with husband demanding their small kids (under 5) should feed and stoke our horses. Sent him on his way and he stormed off to the ferals. Warned him to leave them alone, he didn't. Kids fed the ferals their bread. Ferals were very friendly and grateful. Bread came to an end, ferals spun round, kicked the small kids to the ground. That was totally deliberate. .Luckily the kids were OK however it doesn't take much to realise what could have happend to a 4yo kid in direct line of a mare's hind feet.

Sad though it is carving up an AONB (or anywhere else) whilst the public think they have all these rights to do what they their kids and dogs want there is no way I would let the 2 get near to each other.

 

[Exasperated]

Years ago when I had the problem of a local dog worrying my ponies (to the point of colic), I was told by the dog warden that the Dangerous Dogs Act covered horses as livestock when it came to shooting. I won't have a field with footpath through it, now. Current yard has a couple and we constantly have idiots with loose dogs (and blind people who ignore the stile right in front of them and cross multiple electric fences as they get 'lost'). We've had slanging matches with people who refuse to comply and we are very rural. In fact, the locals are the worst and most entitled!

Yes, DDA does, plus interpretation from various other pieces of legislation, Hunting Act ( cf. commercial dog walkers with out of control multiples), Animals Act etc.
Wildlife & Dogs Police Officer attending advised that the worrying dog could be destroyed, and also that it SHOULD be. Unfortunately he’d plenty experience with ’ entitled’ dog owners.
I was stupid enough to feel sorry for it, and believe a formal caution would bring the owner to her senses.
Won’t be making that mistake again.

 

[Exasperated]

Last night's Countryfile was interviewing a farmer who flagged up people and loose dogs as a major issue. Perhaps it's time the NFU put together some emotional TV footage pointing out responsibilities and the law, and show the clips at prime time watching, alongside the animal charity horror adverts. People do need educating that the countryside is not a free playground, it is actually someone's livelihood.

Yes, but have a look at Killer Cows, they are trying to raise awareness towards separating large herbivores from walkers (which is probably where this is going), because educating people who believe advice or legislation infringes personal liberty, just isn’t effective.

 

[Exasperated]

Yes, but have a look at Killer Cows, they are trying to raise awareness towards separating large herbivores from walkers (which is probably where this is going), because educating people who believe advice or legislation infringes personal liberty, just isn’t effective.

By the way, also own a lot of cows which graze eight months of year, and feel strongly about this.

 

[paddy555]

Last night's Countryfile was interviewing a farmer who flagged up people and loose dogs as a major issue. Perhaps it's time the NFU put together some emotional TV footage pointing out responsibilities and the law, and show the clips at prime time watching, alongside the animal charity horror adverts. People do need educating that the countryside is not a free playground, it is actually someone's livelihood.

good idea in theory in a perfect world. However walkers etc have rights, don't we just know they have rights but sadly they don't have common sense to go with those rights.

 

[Spirit7]

? Well, that’s all alright then, unsure of the issue when you wrote that you were a ‘bit worried’, post 39?

However, would respectfully suggest that if your horses live on a public footpath, and are ‘far more likely to chase a dog than be chased’, and it could be interpreted they’ve actually been taught to chase dogs (Post 47) - advertising that on social media is not a good idea.

(My own horse was differently educated, didn’t dream of kicking any hound, perhaps his undoing?)
Good luck!

? Well, that’s all alright then, unsure of the issue when you wrote that you were a ‘bit worried’, post 39?

However, would respectfully suggest that if your horses live on a public footpath, and are ‘far more likely to chase a dog than be chased’, and it could be interpreted they’ve actually been taught to chase dogs (Post 47) - advertising that on social media is not a good idea.

(My own horse was differently educated, didn’t dream of kicking any hound, perhaps his undoing?)
Good luck!

Bit of a worry to have my horse labelled as dangerous by a numpty who invited him over. No not worried to post on social media it’s a fact that if an animal chased my horses when under saddle they will turn on the dog on command as we are all taught to do so to make the dog retreat (or at least this is what I was taught at about 7 years old when riding out) happy to have this on media as I have it in writing from my local council. Not sure how you got to kicking a hound lol active imagination maybe? More likely to chase to lick to death. My horses love animals and are very inquisitive as horses can be. I do feel sorry for you for your loss and understand your experience and opinion reflects this but as I am working in hand with the council who said there was nothing I needed to do I won’t. I’m also good friends with the local parish councillors who all know my horses and walk their dogs on my land. For the amount of walkers we have I’d say risk is minimal and in life you weigh your risks. In the last 20 years I am aware of one dog attack resulting in one injury across about 50 local yards (and your loss) I’d say they are good odds. You can argue as much as you like but I’m happy and confident in my choices until I have personal reason not to be. With respect I would not comment on how your keep / trained your hunter as I have no idea what type of horse he was. Have a great day and best luck with your current horses, cows and land.

 

[Supercalifragilistic]

A local Footpath has a sign up warning that dogs must be on leads because there is rat poison in use (which there may well be because of the shoot rearing young birds) but I bet it’s a whole lot more effective at persuading people to keep their dogs on leads than a sign warning about livestock….

 

[Velcrobum]

A local Footpath has a sign up warning that dogs must be on leads because there is rat poison in use (which there may well be because of the shoot rearing young birds) but I bet it’s a whole lot more effective at persuading people to keep their dogs on leads than a sign warning about livestock….

What an excellent non-confrontational idea.

 

[YorksG]

The stuff about being non confrontational is beginning to annoy me! If you found someone in your garden shed, or wandering through your borders with their off lead dog digging up the petunias, would you be all Uriah Heap with them? I think most people would tell them to get out, in no uncertain terms, why is a person and their dog ok to run riot on other parts of a person's property?

 

[exracehorse]

There’s a footpath that runs through local livery yard fields. They had to install a walkway with fencing either side as dogs were chasing the horses. Then, people started to feed the horses over the sheep’s wire fencing. Then a girl got bitten. It was in the local paper. How her daughter was traumatised! Ridiculous