Dominant horse - getting professional help

[rescuearacehorse]

Has this horse got plenty of turnout and another horse as a companion?

Yes, electric fenced off from rest of herd because he’d hurt them (a few oldies and small ones) but he’s right next to them. His patch is probably acre and half. Lots of room to gallop, buck, plunge and rear, which he does at any given opportunity! He’s very fresh.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

Yes, electric fenced off from rest of herd because he’d hurt them (a few oldies and small ones) but he’s right next to them. His patch is probably acre and half. Lots of room to gallop, buck, plunge and rear, which he does at any given opportunity! He’s very fresh.

Ahh, so he doesn't actually have a field buddy for play then. A young horse needs more than a scratching buddy over a fence. Get him a good nanny and you may see an improvement.

ETA: this won't solve all of your problems if he genuinely is in pain.

 

[rescuearacehorse]

Ahh, so he doesn't actually have a field buddy for play then. A young horse needs more than a scratching buddy over a fence. Get him a good nanny and you may see an improvement.

ETA: this won't solve all of your problems if he genuinely is in pain.

There’s not one of the herd that he doesn’t absolutely bully, because he’s so big 17.2hh ish he towers over them. I think it’s part of the problem, no one or no thing is putting him in his place

 

[rescuearacehorse]

I honestly don’t think he is in pain, certainly not enough to excuse bad behaviour.
He’s very bright and alert and moving freely about the field.

To me, he’s getting bad mannered and dominant caused by frustration, freshness, boredom and weak handling.

I shall take him for the X-rays and see if anything shows up. Just need to put brave pants on to travel and handle him for that!!

 

[Winters100]

I am quite surprised by this. I agree that weak handling can be a factor, but I have never known a horse who has plenty of turnout become difficult due to boredom or freshness.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

There’s not one of the herd that he doesn’t absolutely bully, because he’s so big 17.2hh ish he towers over them. I think it’s part of the problem, no one or no thing is putting him in his place

Mine is big, he was 17hh (at the bum), 725kg and had only been gelded a few months earlier, when we found him a suitable nanny (a 14hh retired race horse who I swear wouldn't have weighed 300kg dripping wet and wearing a wet rug). It isn't about size, it's about herd order.

I suspect your horse needs proper play time.

 

[Melody Grey]

Agree re: herd order rather than size- my son’s 12hh Welsh is way above others in the herd who are much bigger.

 

[paddy555]

I shall take him for the X-rays and see if anything shows up. Just need to put brave pants on to travel and handle him for that!!

sorry to say it but first you need someone to teach him manners. If you travel him like this ie you are scared and he is so bad mannered what happens if you have an incident travelling and he had to be unloaded. Also what about the vet's safety. It is not their job to have to deal with dangerous horses.

 

[maya2008]

Agree re: herd order rather than size- my son’s 12hh Welsh is way above others in the herd who are much bigger.

Our Shetland is the boss, even now she’s separated into a grass free paddock for her health. They all like to sleep where she can watch over them, she pushes others out of the way for haylage piles when being tacked up and she struts her stuff when ridden or led. Size is, apparently, just a number!!!!!

 

[shanti]

You have a young very large horse who you are, quite rightly, scared of being hurt by. Even if you completely ruled out pain (which it absolutely sounds like) his behavior with you is NOT going to improve without some serious outside help. Every interaction we have with horses is a learning experience for them, it takes little effort for them to pick up things and learn undesirable habits and the longer they go on, the longer it will take to correct. It took my young horse all of 3 days to figure out I was a push over and that trying to bite me made me back away, 12 months later and we are just getting on top of it now with a very good trainer and a lot of work.

If it was me, I would get a full work up, x-rays, scans, everything I could think of to identify or rule out pain.
On the off chance it's not pain related I would stop working with this horse immediately and find a reputable trainer who specializes in working with horses AND owners as its pointless getting someone to work on issues with the horse if you don't have the tools, specific to this horse's needs, to continue with after they leave, works for some may not work for others.

If all else failed or I didn't have the capacity to do both those things, I would PTS.

 

[sbloom]

Even if you completely ruled out pain (which it absolutely sounds like)

People who have had several vets look at horses can still find problems via other routes or even more vet investigations, I don't think we can remotely say this. I think there's pain here even if it's not found for some time to come. I see too many rehab/behavioural trainers who say 99% of problems that come to them are to do with pain.

 

[Birker2020]

Bailey had quite bad ataxia at one point, I hadn't realised until the physio did a tail sway test. It came as a complete surprise and I can remember being very upset due to my previous horse having been pts with wobblers.

Bailey had issues with her neck but she didn't remain ataxic for long and it never returned so I don't know if it was something else that caused it.

So maybe it's the same with your horse OP in which case maybe it might stabilise.

 

[TPO]

People who have had several vets look at horses can still find problems via other routes or even more vet investigations, I don't think we can remotely say this. I think there's pain here even if it's not found for some time to come. I see too many rehab/behavioural trainers who say 99% of problems that come to them are to do with pain.

I read it that @shanti was saying "which it absolutely sounds like" in regards to the horse being in pain; not that everything had already been done to rule out pain?

 

[sbloom]

I read it that @shanti was saying "which it absolutely sounds like" in regards to the horse being in pain; not that everything had already been done to rule out pain?

You could be right...

 

[SEL]

You might be able to have x-rays at the yard if you speak to the vet and explain travelling is an issue. I've got one who ties-up travelling so getting her to the vets is a struggle and they will come to the yard if I push them. If you can rule out wobblers then there are plenty of really good professionals who can work with your horse and flag if they think it is behaviour, training or further vet is needed.

My friends young 17.2h warmblood has a shetland as a companion. Believe me when I say biggest doesn't mean in charge!

 

[shanti]

I read it that @shanti was saying "which it absolutely sounds like" in regards to the horse being in pain; not that everything had already been done to rule out pain?

Yep, that's what I meant, sorry if I wasn't clear