Dr riders wearing protective hats...

oh and i dont wear a hat clipping my 17 year old tb but prob will wear one clipping my rising 4 year old for first time end of this year. Also, i do wear a hat leading my 3 year old on the roads or for a long walk though i dont wear one leading 2 year old exmoor as shes too small to reach my head, though i do wear one leading her on the roads. I dont wear one loading generally. I should really though.
 
The reason we don't all wear steel toe caps is that they are actually very unsafe around horses.

Steel toe caps aren't designed to cope with the type of pressure you get from a shod horse standing on your foot. If this happens there is a significant chance that the steel toe cap will bend and mis-shape, and either crush or sever your toes, causing worse injuries than you would have received wearing tough leather boots. Steel toe caps are designed to protect against hazards like a brick being dropped on your foot, not a horse standing on it. There have been attempts to design a suitable protective boots with a toe compartment rather than a toe cap, and there are a few on the market, if you are tempted then check they are designed for work around horses and have a D shaped compartment not just a cap.

Although safety equipment is important, it should be the correct safety equipment designed for the job. Safety equipment is designed for a purpose and using it incorrectly or in the wrong circumstances can actually INCREASE risks.
 
KristmasKatt said:
The reason we don't all wear steel toe caps is that they are actually very unsafe around horses.

Steel toe caps aren't designed to cope with the type of pressure you get from a shod horse standing on your foot. If this happens there is a significant chance that the steel toe cap will bend and mis-shape, and either crush or sever your toes, causing worse injuries than you would have received wearing tough leather boots. Steel toe caps are designed to protect against hazards like a brick being dropped on your foot, not a horse standing on it. There have been attempts to design a suitable protective boots with a toe compartment rather than a toe cap, and there are a few on the market, if you are tempted then check they are designed for work around horses and have a D shaped compartment not just a cap.

Although safety equipment is important, it should be the correct safety equipment designed for the job. Safety equipment is designed for a purpose and using it incorrectly or in the wrong circumstances can actually INCREASE risks.
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yes, but there are safety boots out there that are proof against a ten tonne block of metal being dropped on them in a lab, i'm pretty sure a horse's hoof couldn't exert that much downwards force in any possible circumstances. the old tale about someone getting their toes cut off by a steel-toe-capped boot... hmmm, not sure i believe that.
i've seen someone get thoroughly trodden on by a studded-up very large event horse. she just laughed and shoved him off her foot, as her steel-toe-capped boot did its job...
 
The BSI have different safety standards for different boots designed for use in different circumstances. Dropping a heavy object from a height is different to having a horse stand on you, the pressure is applied differently.

The boots safe to use around horses have a closed compartment that goes right around the foot rather than just a cap which can be pushed down into the toes.
 
kerilli said:
where did any of us say anything at all about Health and Safety, the litigation culture, etc etc?
i'm for free choice too. if i had children, i'd allow them go through grids without stirrups and reins, play bareback cowboys and indians, all the things i did (with a hat on, fwiw! mother made me wear one of those hideous JOFA things). but we're talking about adult riders (who, however you look at it, are bigger, heavier, therefore fall harder - pure physics - and whose bones aren't as bendy...!) falling from higher up on big powerful comp horses, not kids on ponies. i had countless falls as a kid and never hurt myself. wish i was still that light and bendy!
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Kerilli, your ref to Jofa hats just made me laugh out loud!! Bet your ears were warm though...
 
Nobody ever brings up those kids that get tossed around in vaulting. And adults. Impressive, lovely to watch, but I'm guessing not the safest.

I try not to join these threads, but I'm running on too little sleep to resist. :p

I believe habits are paramount to this discussion. I wear a hat most of the time, always for riding, always for loading, 98% of the time for grooming. Habit. Ask me to wear a body protector, I'll decline. That's not one of my habits. Academically I know about reducing risk and that my horse may have a rotational fall and squash me at any time because a butterfly flapped its wings in Brazil. But in reality, I've never really worn one and the whole thing seems more effort than its risk/return. It only takes a few seconds to put on too, but the whole thing is just odd to me. And the bulk of the people I know are the same.

Some people change their habits. Most of the people I know who started to wear body protectors are in the habit of being more safety conscious than average, it is their habit to reduce all risks, just not to the point of taking up knitting instead. Some will change through experience. I'll defend my right to not wear a BP as PS is defending her right to not wear a hat.

The way to make hat riding the norm is for parents to take responsibility of their children, make hat/BP/high vis wearing a habit for the next generation. The parents on H&H seem to do it already. I have no right to tell little Sophie what to do, I'm not her parent, I'm not responsible for her as a random bystander. And nor is Edward Gal, Rodrigo Pessoa or Clayton Fredericks. Little Sophie's parents are responsible for making it Little Sophie's habit to wear a hat at all times. For those of us who always wear a hat, we speak of feeling weird without one. Little Sophie and her friends will be the same. Derailing PS's picture threads, or calling all non-hat wearers daft and tax burdens isn't going to change anything.
 
I don't normally post much however this debate has been very interesting.

Reading the posts (not all I must admit as very long debate), I still cannot see a solid argument for not wearing a hat whilst riding however in saying this I do believe each to their own and it is your own decision as long as you are not putting anyone else at risk.

A point I'd like to make though is what about protection on our horses? There are lots of us out there that boot, bandage and gadget up in the name of so called safety and injury prevention but then ride around with no hat. To me that contradicts any argument against them not wearing one. What about other aspects like walking our dogs, most of us put leads on them near busy roads, not because we think our dogs will run out head on to a car but 'just in case'... food for thought!?

We all are aware riding is a risk sport and I have been bucked and bronced on many occasions managing to stay on but was walking around the school when the horse spooked, she went one way and I went the other and I managed to tear the ligament in my knee. All horses are unpredictable whether we like to think they are 'bombproof' or not. Yes, we could then argue that I should be wearing knee protection but how far do we take it?
 
huh, it won't let me quote.
re: "yes, we could then argue that i should be wearing knee protection but how far do we take it?"
isn't it a case, as with the horse, of protecting the most vulnerable part(s)? i protect my horse's front tendons and heels, e.g. i won't jump a horse without tendon guards and overreach boots. not so worried about the hindlegs because the chances of them being struck from behind are zero, so they go naked... same with myself, i protect the most important part.
i've sustained a serious knee injury twice now. if those had been serious head injuries, i wouldn't be sitting here. i'd be lying on the couch drooling, if i was lucky, i guess. or unlucky, depending on how you look at it...
it's shocking that most riders think nothing of spending hundreds of pounds on a nice pair of leather boots, and perhaps thousands on a saddle, but begrudge £100 every 3 years for a good hat... let alone using it! ;) ;)

GreyCoast, that's a very very good point about habits, i hadn't thought of that. must admit, i now wear a bp a LOT more at home on the lively ones, and have been glad of it more than once. i'm no novice either...
the thing is, parents may be trying hard to push their children to stick their hat on, but if their idols, and/or other riders at the yard, don't, perhaps the children will bin the hat the moment mum's out of view... cos, after all, it's not "cool", and children and/or teens are probably the most likely to feel invincible up there...
 
rowy said:
Oh and back onto the hat debate. I do equine sports science to which one of the modules is behaviour. I think we forget sometimes that we are sitting on a wild animal with its OWN brain. We are never going to be able to "make" the horse do something it doesnt want to do or be able to tell what the horse is going to do at all times. Its just like people, every now and again someone you know well does something you wouldnt of expected them to do. That is why there are quite a few non-horsey people that refuse to ride or think we are stupid for horse riding because getting on a horse is a risk every time. no matter if you have owned the horse for 1 year or 20 years theres always going to be a risk. Granted on a horse you have owned 20 years and has never done anything, the risk is going to be significantly lower than one you have owned just one year but it is still there.
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Imho the brain point has two sides, my brother does quite a bit of downhill mountain biking and is constantly telling me that riding is more dangerous but the way I see it is the bike has no brain so if you are heading towards a tree as you've made a mistake that's it whereas I would expect most horses would save themselves, and consequently also you, by deciding to avoid the tree. So yes horses can think for themselves but equally they are unlikely to put themselves in a position of danger.
 
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rowy said:
I think arguing over this is funny though. Its like each hat wearing person wants to bring up the one argument that will break a non-hat wearing person into wearing a hat at all times. I dont think hat wearers are doing it out of spite or anything, I think its more like a competition.... who can get a non-hat wearer to finally say they will wear a hat and that they are wrong is the winner. its like it in all arguments you have with ur fam or something. its gonna keep going until somebody admits they are wrong. Dont think its gonna happen though, especially on a internet forum where nobody really knows each other....
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I'm afraid i disagree with this^

I personally, and I'm sure most of the others on here, posted on this subject, not to win a competition in turning someones opinion around but to merely give a couple of examples that may or may not give someone a reason to stop and think.

Isn't that how evolution works? A species changes and adapts due to events that have happened in the past?
 
rebmw said:
I'm afraid i disagree with this^

I personally, and I'm sure most of the others on here, posted on this subject, not to win a competition in turning someones opinion around but to merely give a couple of examples that may or may not give someone a reason to stop and think.

Isn't that how evolution works? A species changes and adapts due to events that have happened in the past?
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I have to second that. I for one started wearing a hat while handling after reading a thread on here, two weeks later a horse reared and hit me over the head. I don't know why I didn't wear a hat before that, but someone asking that very question on the thread made me re-examine my habits and develp better ones, so thank you!
 
rebmw said:
I'm afraid i disagree with this^

I personally, and I'm sure most of the others on here, posted on this subject, not to win a competition in turning someones opinion around but to merely give a couple of examples that may or may not give someone a reason to stop and think.

Isn't that how evolution works? A species changes and adapts due to events that have happened in the past?
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I'm sorry I should have phrased it differently. I dont mean a competition as such but in your heart of hearts you must hope that it is your own experience of a matter to do with falling off and how you could have injured yourself if not wearing a hat that sways another person who doesnt wear a hat. Or yours along with a collection of others who also back up your own storys.
I dont think its something bad. I think its nice that so many people care so much about those who dont wear hats. :) :)
 
Its taken a couple if days to read through this thread. Personally I always wearf a hat - habbit.
I don't wear a BP as it used to be habbit and I now have none to fit and I would only wear it XC. To each their own regarding their safety gear. It's them and their horse and if they have assessed the risk, then no-one will get them to change their minds until something happens.

My own hat is 1 1/2 yrs old - but what is with the 3 yrs that people have mentioned regarding hats??
 
mishaspey, apparently the polystyrene foam degrades with age (and use? i don't know) so it's best to replace after 3 years.
actually, i'd like to know if it's purely age... my comp HS1 lives in the lorry and has had about 1/100th the usage of my yard HS1... and definitely hasn't ever been dropped, fallen off onto, etc. Anyone, is it purely age or wear and tear degeneration of the foam that we're worried about? if the former, maybe new hats should have a manufacture date to the month... do they? some tack shops may have slow turnover of certain makes and sizes, using up valuable time in the life of a hat!
 
Kerilli, whilst I don't have the exact answer to your question, I do know UV light degrades hats - hence many now coming in a hat bag and it being a very stupid idea to keep your hat on the rear shelf of the car/hung up by the stable rather than in the tack room.

I'd always heard 5 years for hats unless an impact occurs.
 
Thanks Kerilli and Spotted Cat - in my 16 years of riding I have never heard this. Makes you wonder because unless there's been an accident, then RS hats (at ones I've been to) aren't replaced. Or unless those Hats become defunct and safety specs change. i.e the PAS015.
 
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mishaspey said:
Thanks Kerilli and Spotted Cat - in my 16 years of riding I have never heard this. Makes you wonder because unless there's been an accident, then RS hats (at ones I've been to) aren't replaced. Or unless those Hats become defunct and safety specs change. i.e the PAS015.
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And I was just in the process of replying that I don't care what anyone says but I am Not going to wear my cat out riding
 
kerilli said:
http://www.riders4helmets.com/?p=2116

Debbie McDonald (U.S. Olympic rider) got bronc'd off a young dr horse onto her head, and escaped with concussion, facial lacerations and whiplash.
Ever since Courtney King-Dye incurred such terrible head injuries DM has been wearing a hat every time, and believes her hat saved her life.

so... please, stick your hats on, guys. it's a no-brainer. leave the vegetables for supper... ;) ;)
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People are totally barmy if they don't wear hats imho. I got thrown from a horse many years ago, and ended up with serious concussion. It had a massive impact on my life at the time, and I still struggle with day to day things. I ended up blue light job to the hospital for a CT scan as they thought I'd a bleed in my brain, luckily I hadn't. I was the night in intensive care and four days in a hospital for observation following that. I had a hat on a fell in a sand school. I know a fellow livery who borrowed someone's hat as she'd forgotten hers, got thrown against the kerb whilst riding her sons horse, suffered a brain bleed and goodness knows what else and despite brain surgery sadly died. She left two young lads and her husband. Very sad.

Moral of the story, always wear a properly fitted hat. I wouldn't be here now if I'd not had my hat on and M**** would most likely still be here now if she'd have had her own hat on.
 
I stupidly pottered up to our school with a hat on...but not my riding hat.

My YO ran up shouting at me getting me to replace it even with it being only flat work. It annoys me that people go on about with horse even know they know how dangerous horses are but dont wear hats....makes me feel like whatever and ur choice"!!!!!!

c
 
quick question- all those that rant about non hat wearers costing tax payers money- how many smoke??? Just as much risk of killing yourselves with that and tax payers will still have to pay for your treatment.
be honest now....
 
I don't like the "you are costing the NHS money by your riding" argument as it generilises to almost any activity/lifestyle and the NHS is supposed to treat according to need, not desert, but as an aside, smokers actually save the state money. Not only do they pay special taxes which more than cover their health care costs, they also die younger of fairly devastating diseases, rather than incurring pensions, social security costs and crippling NHS old age costs! It's quite ironic this fact totally gets lost in the discussion really!

OK, sorry for the aside.
 
Saratoga said:
Be interesting to find out if all those who fully support wearing a hat at all times also wear a hard hat with tails, and a fully harnessed hat instead of a beagler. If safety it paramount, top hats and beaglers should also be banned.
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Hi Im new here so please be gentle! I would just like to ask you, is that you riding with a beagler/patey hat doing dressage? If it is, and if you are a supporter of the new rules, why didnt you use your crash hat in the dressage phase? It has never been against the rules to wear one. Just asking out of interest. :)
 
Paladine said:
As an American affected by this rule . . . I am all for personal choice.

So, if someone breaks a rib in a fall, will we also have to wear body protectors? There is an element of danger to any horse sport that will never be eliminated.

I'm not anti-helmet- I am very thankful for it when I fell off a couple weeks ago.

I think it's a knee jerk reaction personally. Most people who wear hunt caps in the ring do not wear helmets at home, IMO. So I don't think making helmets mandatory in the show ring will make a difference at home- where the majority of accidents occur.

I'm all for making the Jrs wear them, but I think the rest of us should have a say. Many have already gone and done it in the past year to make a statement for Courtney (who is not a helmet nazi, btw), but to make it a national rule is a bit overboard, when there are many pressing issues like safer XC and safer riding and instruction.
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Totally agree! Top hats will not be banned here as the classes they are worn in comeunder FEI rules. Our trainers ride without hats at home, the same as Courtney did. I wear a hat at home but sometimes when its hot go without, my choice. :)
 
nononsense said:
Hi Im new here so please be gentle! I would just like to ask you, is that you riding with a beagler/patey hat doing dressage? If it is, and if you are a supporter of the new rules, why didnt you use your crash hat in the dressage phase? It has never been against the rules to wear one. Just asking out of interest. :)
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Hi :wavey:

Yes I do wear a beagler, I am not a supported of the new rules. Just asking the question to those that preach about always wearing a hat, if they would opt for a safety harness with a tails jacket.
 
Saratoga said:
Hi :wavey:

Yes I do wear a beagler, I am not a supported of the new rules. Just asking the question to those that preach about always wearing a hat, if they would opt for a safety harness with a tails jacket.
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Yes, I would now. Absolutely, 100%. I think the two look good together. The 'circus ringmaster' look is not really steeped in dressage history (my trainer remembers when it was introduced, and why!), it's only habit that makes us think it looks good.
I didn't wear a crash cap with tails before, probably because the two horses I have gotten to top-hat-and-tails wearing level were absolutely obedient and reliable, NEVER bucked or reared. I felt totally safe on them. I did flatwork at home on them hatless. I always wore a crash skull for jumping and hacking on the roads, but not for flatwork.
Courtney's fall has taught me that however good you think you are (and no way am I in her league) a stupid life-destroying trip can happen even on the flat.
 
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That's good to hear Kerilli. I have no problem with people wanting to wear safety hats at all times, but I do find the inconsistency of some people frustrating (those who won't get on a horse without a hat and preach to others that do, but will happily ride in a beagler or top hat to look the part).
 
there was a good bit of comment at Burghley and in the Burghley threads about North American riders and their helmets in dressage. Most was quite negative. North Americans were the ONLY riders who wore helmets, even though it's optional and y'all could have.

There was also some speculation that the dressage judges MIGHT have unconsciously penalized helmet wearers, as so much of dressage is based on the picture presented.
 
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