Drastic Behaviour Change and Working Livery

[horsesncats]

Disclaimer: I have owned my horse for 5 years but I am a very novice owner hence posting here...

Bit of background on her 'normal' personality: my mare is 10yo and is (generally) an angel. Not spooky, very chill. I can lead her to the field with an umbrella over our heads. Loves people. Is forward at times but is generally a chill ride, and enjoys it for the most part. curious about what I am doing and would watch me all the time (not anxious). whinnies at me.

She's always been on full livery and that's part of the reason I've remained a novice in ownership. Other than that, she's very easy so I never had to learn much. Obviously, she can play up but it was never anything truly awful.

Well, until a couple of months ago. Long story short, due to the antics of the yard owner (aghhhhhh), I had to put her onto working livery at the same place where the horses are ridden 2-5 hours a day unless owner is coming down (which is only a set number of days). I would have moved her but I am leaving the area soon (no date but in a few months), so didn't want to move her twice within a fairly tight period of time.

Now, she nips. Pins her ears back if you go up to her. Hates being ridden. Looks grumpy. No interest in anything. Is tense all the time. Spookier and on edge. I think she hates me, sadly.

Its like someone stole my horse and left me with this one.

I feel terribly guilty. I know working livery works for some, and other working livery places would have better practices than the place im at (they customers are beginners pretty much)

I also am aware that there could be an underlying issue, and I will call out the vet, don't worry. But, it matches perfectly with when the working livery contract started.

Can someone give some insight and wisdom ( as well as reassure me that she'll go back to normal when I move her to a full livery yard in my new area...)

 

[Tiddlypom]

Stop the working livery arrangement ASAP as it is not suiting your horse.

 

[ycbm]

Please get her out of there, she is screaming at you that she isn't happy with the arrangement.

Welcome to the forum.
.

 

[Cloball]

Are they using your tack or their own? Does it fit has she changed shape with the increase work and is that effecting the saddle fit? Is she fit enough for the increased work or is it a dramatic increase? Is she getting less turn out/forage due to the increase work load. Novices are unbalanced and hard on the mouth. Theres all sorts of things it could be.

I'd definitely get the vet out as it sounds like pain, stop the working livery on welfare grounds and probably check your tack as well.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Also, they use her for up to 5 hours a day? Is that all in lessons?

I’ve had a horse in working livery - he was used for a max of 3 hours per day whether that was me riding as well or just them using him.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Id just tell them ‘Please don’t ride my horse’

 

[Squeak]

I'd stop the working livery now even if it means having to move twice in a short time period. Once she's moved I'd do back and saddle checks and if those are fine see if she starts to change back after a week or two of being back in your old ridden routine.

 

[Arzada]

I would have moved her but I am leaving the area soon (no date but in a few months), so didn't want to move her twice within a fairly tight period of time.

She needs to come off working livery asap. She can't cope with it now so imagine her in a few months time. I'd gamble with two moves as being better than enduring the current working livery.

 

[olop]

I moved mine to working livery at college whilst I was going through a divorce a few years back.

He was an absolute saint of a horse and one day they called me to say I need to come and look at him and they think he needs the vet. I couldn’t get in the stable with him he was so angry and just wasn’t the horse I left there.

I decided to take him away and chucked him out in a field for a few months, he soon went back to being a saint.

Some horses just don’t adjust to different people riding and handling them. I would get her out of the situation if I was you, she’s obviously not happy.

 

[horsesncats]

Are they using your tack or their own? Does it fit has she changed shape with the increase work and is that effecting the saddle fit? Is she fit enough for the increased work or is it a dramatic increase? Is she getting less turn out/forage due to the increase work load. Novices are unbalanced and hard on the mouth. Theres all sorts of things it could be.

I'd definitely get the vet out as it sounds like pain, stop the working livery on welfare grounds and probably check your tack as well.

my tack. They over tighten girths. I have corrected them so many times but they've said it's for 'health and safety'. But yes, the saddle shape may have changed as they don't exactly take care of my tack either. She is fit enough, I am pretty sure as she's showed no sign of lack of fitness.
As mentioned, the riding school is mainly for beginners. they don't correct tensing etc. I only noticed after putting her on working that bar two of the geldings, all the working horses are similar to her new behaviour

Also, they use her for up to 5 hours a day? Is that all in lessons?

I’ve had a horse in working livery - he was used for a max of 3 hours per day whether that was me riding as well or just them using him.

lessons and treks. I personally think it's ridiculous



Forgot to put in my original post: the reason I also can't really move her within my current area is the full livery yards don't have all year turnout (DIY is not an option but I was considering hiring a groom, but most of the DIYs ive found are stable only in winter or max 1 hr) and I don't believe in keeping them in during the winter. I know it'd drive her crazy. It really sucks as I know that even if it is a medical issue, it would be because I put her on working.
If I put her back on full here, the yard manager has said that they'll keep her tied along this shelter thing they have all day until the horses are put in fields at 5pm. That means she'd be standing in the same spot (with food at water) for 8hrs straight on days I don't go down. Other than that, their full livery has changed to no longer being full livery, essentially. Their practices are really 'questionable' (aka abysmal), I am not even going to begin to rant because I'll scandalise most of you here.
I can't decide what to do. Im tempted to put her in my garden lol

 

[horsesncats]

I moved mine to working livery at college whilst I was going through a divorce a few years back.

He was an absolute saint of a horse and one day they called me to say I need to come and look at him and they think he needs the vet. I couldn’t get in the stable with him he was so angry and just wasn’t the horse I left there.

I decided to take him away and chucked him out in a field for a few months, he soon went back to being a saint.

Some horses just don’t adjust to different people riding and handling them. I would get her out of the situation if I was you, she’s obviously not happy.

its a relief to hear he went back to being a saint! gives me hope!
I just graduated so am moving to work. This working livery is a temporary thing regardless if she had reacted like this as I'm possessive haha. But the impact is so alarming

 

[expanding_horizon]

the obvious would be to take the financial hit and take her off working livery and see if she changes.

Are they using exactly the same tack and saddle cloth for working livery, and how many hours and what weight riders is she carrying?

 

[Squeak]

Tbh it sounds like this might be a scenario where lack of turnout is the lesser of two evils.

Otherwise what about the other extreme and find her full grass livery either in your area or where you're moving to and giving her a month or two off in a field to have some time to herself and recover?

 

[expanding_horizon]

You could move her to a decent temporary yard short term, location within a hour or so not important as temporary. Where they do rehab / holiday livery, and have great reputation. And possibly leave her turnout out for a break. In the circumstance a double move sounds minor compared to what you currently have! And the vet bills if she has ulcers, a sore back and soft tissue and joint pain from bad riding school working could be huge.

Then when you move find a good yard, and move her there.

 

[ycbm]

I moved mine to working livery at college whilst I was going through a divorce a few years back.

He was an absolute saint of a horse and one day they called me to say I need to come and look at him and they think he needs the vet. I couldn’t get in the stable with him he was so angry and just wasn’t the horse I left there.

I decided to take him away and chucked him out in a field for a few months, he soon went back to being a saint.

Some horses just don’t adjust to different people riding and handling them. I would get her out of the situation if I was you, she’s obviously not happy.

I have been asked to buy back a horse I sold because his temperament was so bad in the college his new owner had taken him to. . He was the sweetest horse I'd ever known while I had him and I refused and told them to sell him. They did and he was right back to normal as soon as he was out of the place.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I would rather put the horse on grass livery until your ready to move.

 

[nagblagger]

my tack. They over tighten girths. I have corrected them so many times but they've said it's for 'health and safety'. But yes, the saddle shape may have changed as they don't exactly take care of my tack either. She is fit enough, I am pretty sure as she's showed no sign of lack of fitness.
As mentioned, the riding school is mainly for beginners. they don't correct tensing etc. I only noticed after putting her on working that bar two of the geldings, all the working horses are similar to her new behaviour

lessons and treks. I personally think it's ridiculous



Forgot to put in my original post: the reason I also can't really move her within my current area is the full livery yards don't have all year turnout (DIY is not an option but I was considering hiring a groom, but most of the DIYs ive found are stable only in winter or max 1 hr) and I don't believe in keeping them in during the winter. I know it'd drive her crazy. It really sucks as I know that even if it is a medical issue, it would be because I put her on working.
If I put her back on full here, the yard manager has said that they'll keep her tied along this shelter thing they have all day until the horses are put in fields at 5pm. That means she'd be standing in the same spot (with food at water) for 8hrs straight on days I don't go down. Other than that, their full livery has changed to no longer being full livery, essentially. Their practices are really 'questionable' (aka abysmal), I am not even going to begin to rant because I'll scandalise most of you here.
I can't decide what to do. Im tempted to put her in my garden lol

If you think anything of your mare you will be stopping the riding today, and moving her asap, in days not weeks or months. i don't see how you 'can't decide what to do.' and make light of the situation 'lol'.
I might sound a bit harsh but there is a living creature shouting for help which you should be listening to. Your horse is suffering.

 

[Arzada]

Forgot to put in my original post: the reason I also can't really move her within my current area is the full livery yards don't have all year turnout (DIY is not an option but I was considering hiring a groom, but most of the DIYs ive found are stable only in winter or max 1 hr) and I don't believe in keeping them in during the winter. I know it'd drive her crazy. It really sucks as I know that even if it is a medical issue, it would be because I put her on working.
If I put her back on full here, the yard manager has said that they'll keep her tied along this shelter thing they have all day until the horses are put in fields at 5pm. That means she'd be standing in the same spot (with food at water) for 8hrs straight on days I don't go down. Other than that, their full livery has changed to no longer being full livery, essentially. Their practices are really 'questionable' (aka abysmal), I am not even going to begin to rant because I'll scandalise most of you here.
I can't decide what to do. Im tempted to put her in my garden lol

In that case I would look for full grass livery for the few months before you move. As I'd be looking to move the horse asap, and I really mean asap, I would look at all options most likely starting with retirement yards which will have a stable herd and basically offer full grass livery as the norm. Explain your situation and they may well offer you a place. It happened to me when I was desperate to move and the retirement yard would even have let me ride out even though all the other horses were truly retired and did not go out.

I would forget any concerns of the horse losing fitness during this time because what is happening to her now is damaging her, physically and emotionally.

Which county are you in? Someone may be able to suggest a solution

 

[Wishfilly]

Low/no turnout for a short period might still be better than a working livery arrangement where she's so unhappy. 5 hours a day with beginners is a lot for a horse too. Are they registered with the BHS or ARBS? Once you're off the yard I'd consider reporting them, to be honest!

Given you're looking at full livery, could you widen your search and consider places further away, or even put her on full livery in the area you're moving to?

 

[saddlesore]

I would also be looking for grass full livery. This will give you a wider area to look in and tbh she sounds so miserable that I’d be giving her a couple of months to just chill out in the field with other horses.

 

[DressageCob]

5 hours is excessive. And she's clearly unhappy. I would move her anywhere. Clearly the yard doesn't care about her welfare when the options are either she works up to 5 hours a day with an over-tight girth and beginner riders, or she's tied up in some sort of lean to for 8 hours a day. How you can bear to have your horse there a moment longer is beyond me.

 

[Widgeon]

Otherwise what about the other extreme and find her full grass livery either in your area or where you're moving to and giving her a month or two off in a field to have some time to herself and recover?

I was thinking this. Or even a decent retirement / holiday yard that might take her for a few months? It sounds like you've got quite a lot going on, your horse needs some time to decompress and recover....a few months of good grass livery of some sort might give you both a break.

 

[Zoeypxo]

You need to sort alternative asap, if you could post a rough idea of your area some of us may be able to help.

Full grass livery for a few months sounds ideal

 

[cauda equina]

Get her out of there, and yes your garden sounds preferable to the current set up
The yard sounds awful and I'd worry that you could tell them to stop using her in lessons but they will carry on anyway as they'll be making money from her
Good luck!

One of mine (a very laid-back cob) went to an equine college and came home with new and worrying behavoiours; I think maybe the kinder and more easy-going the horse, the worse the stuff they are expected to put up with

 

[Goldie's mum]

Move her now, before there is permanent damage.
Give her a holiday for the winter. You won't need to find somewhere local then. Visit her at the weekend.

ETA say just roughly what area you're in & someone on here may be able to suggest where you can move her to.

 

[Sanversera]

Sounds pain related, could be saddle not fitting, arthritis,ulcers, muscle ache,back ache,tooth ache.

 

[irishdraft]

5 hours a day with beginners or tied up for 8 hours, I wouldn't be accepting either of these situations for my horse. Your mare should be moved asap whatever your situation is imo.

 

[littleshetland]

Please move her...she's telling you very plainly that she's not happy. Being tied up fo 8 hours a day - even with food and water - is unacceptable.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

If there’s nowhere nearby that offers winter turnout could you look to move her to a full livery setup in the area you plan to move to instead and just have her move ahead of you? As others have said her unhappiness is obvious so you really do need to do something about it sooner rather than later.

 

[Timelyattraction]

She needs to come off working livery asap. She can't cope with it now so imagine her in a few months time. I'd gamble with two moves as being better than enduring the current working livery.