Drastic Behaviour Change and Working Livery

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Surely lack of turnout is better than the current working livery arrangements. Make sure she's got plenty of hay in her stable and maybe a couple of toys to keep her occupied

She's suffering way more than for being in a bit more than is ideal

I wouldn't keep her at the current yard even if you stop the working livery arrangement as it sounds like they will use her anyway. Give notice on the working livery at least and take your tack home until you can get her out of there. Lack of turnout is way preferable to doing 5 hours lessons

Why is she on working livery?

 

[horsesncats]

To everyone judging me for keeping her there or for me saying 'lol' (as if that's an indicator of the level of care or concern I have), honestly don't bother because you have only a sliver of information with very little context as to why I didn't just move her ASAP to somewhere else.

Anyway, now that's aside.

I am probably going to do the double move thing since I asked them today to move her back to full and they said 'they needed her' to work (and its 3-4 hours, not 5, my mistake)
There's a farm that offers some sort of full livery ad hoc and my friend's brother has a horse there, so I will try and put her there. we have limited options here... and going from hours of turnout to being stabled only also does not seem the best as I know of owners who have done that and had problems. Grass livery is a last resort and to be honest, I couldn't find anything even then that includes checking off the horses.

Does anyone know if a double move would be too much within 6 months? And what's the best way to adjust her after doing this working livery to her new yard/how long it could take?

Why is she on working livery?

In June, new manager took over and changed loads of things, and then said she wouldn't be getting the stable but would have to be in this tied-up area (not sure if there's an actual name for it). I knew I was moving next year, so thought it seemed better to put her on working than be tied up all day against a wall. At first, she seemed the same and the changes went back and forth until now. Honestly, I've seen how stressed some horses get moving (worse than her current behaviour and mood) so thought a double move may be too much for her. There are other problems at that yard now, but as their attitude is getting worse, I think they'll probably have a lot of reports.

 

[horsesncats]

Does anyone know if there is any actual law about riding centre horses being used (not working in general)? They're not BHS-approved or anything, but I do want to make a point to them before I go that the horses they own are being worked too much

 

[AmyMay]

Does anyone know if a double move would be too much within 6 months?

I’m not sure you have much choice.

 

[AmyMay]

Does anyone know if there is any actual law about riding centre horses being used (not working in general)? They're not BHS-approved or anything, but I do want to make a point to them before I go that the horses they own are being worked too much

Just contact your local council.

 

[PurBee]

To everyone judging me for keeping her there or for me saying 'lol' (as if that's an indicator of the level of care or concern I have), honestly don't bother because you have only a sliver of information with very little context as to why I didn't just move her ASAP to somewhere else.

Anyway, now that's aside.

I am probably going to do the double move thing since I asked them today to move her back to full and they said 'they needed her' to work (and its 3-4 hours, not 5, my mistake)
There's a farm that offers some sort of full livery ad hoc and my friend's brother has a horse there, so I will try and put her there. we have limited options here... and going from hours of turnout to being stabled only also does not seem the best as I know of owners who have done that and had problems. Grass livery is a last resort and to be honest, I couldn't find anything even then that includes checking off the horses.

Does anyone know if a double move would be too much within 6 months? And what's the best way to adjust her after doing this working livery to her new yard/how long it could take?

In June, new manager took over and changed loads of things, and then said she wouldn't be getting the stable but would have to be in this tied-up area (not sure if there's an actual name for it). I knew I was moving next year, so thought it seemed better to put her on working than be tied up all day against a wall. At first, she seemed the same and the changes went back and forth until now. Honestly, I've seen how stressed some horses get moving (worse than her current behaviour and mood) so thought a double move may be too much for her. There are other problems at that yard now, but as their attitude is getting worse, I think they'll probably have a lot of reports.

As she’s so grumpy being suddenly worked 3-4hrs per day verses… 1hr per day?….that sudden change to multiple hours by various riders of various skills is not how anyone would normally introduce a horse to more work. The new YO is being unreasonable.

Shocking to hear your story really, as full livery packages usually mean highest paying tier, and you the owner gets to call the shots on who rides your horse.

As its making your horse so miserable, as youve described her drastic behaviour change, i’d guess that despite the possible stress of a move, she’d be better behaved not being worked in the way she is currently. She’d likely be relieved!
If she’s the type of horse that freaks out at changes….expect some move stress, but you described her as saintly before this work regime, and im guessing its a yard with activities and stimulus going on all the time, so she’s not adverse to regular stimulus in her environment, and likely would be fine with the move and new stimulus.

I would be wary to move her to a place with just 1 other resident horse though - bonding issues potentially could result…especially if shes been used to grazing with/alongside a number of horses on this current yard.

The folks on here cover the british isles, so if you describe your ideal livery package youd want for you and your horse, in which counties/area preferred, you’d likely get a few suggestions. Worth a punt

 

[Surbie]

Does anyone know if a double move would be too much within 6 months? And what's the best way to adjust her after doing this working livery to her new yard/how long it could take?

Moving twice in 6 months - I've done it once from a yard that just didn't work out. I have 1 horse so it's the smallest possible sample. Worked really well though there were a few weeks of unsettled behaviour leading in from the field, which was resolved by just leading in wearing a bridle, and ONLY me doing it. (made the mistake of letting others who'd known him on a previous yard bring him in too early after the move and they didn't use his bridle)

Definitely take your tack home as soon as you've given notice and check her to see if they have stuck other tack on/be prepared to move her faster. From what you have said, it doesn't sound like they have many scruples.

 

[DabDab]

Your horse is being damaged by the current arrangement, just move her.

No, two moves in 6 months isn't ideal, but lots of horses do it and are absolutely fine. You'd have to be bonkers not to choose possibly a bit unsettled from a couple of moves over definitely unhappy and quite likely being physically damaged from the current arrangement

 

[AdorableAlice]

Does anyone know if there is any actual law about riding centre horses being used (not working in general)? They're not BHS-approved or anything, but I do want to make a point to them before I go that the horses they own are being worked too much

Yes, what would you like to know.

 

[nagblagger]

Is your horse insured to be ridden by the novices- who is liable and if they injured the horse what would happen?

 

[maya2008]

Get her out of there! Being stabled 24/7 on a good full livery yard, would mean walker/arena turnout/lunging in the mornings, and then you ride in the afternoon. A horse can cope with that. It’s not ideal but better than being bounced around on by novices for hours each day!

 

[paddy555]

To everyone judging me for keeping her there or for me saying 'lol' (as if that's an indicator of the level of care or concern I have), honestly don't bother because you have only a sliver of information with very little context as to why I didn't just move her ASAP to somewhere else.

sliver of information and very little context are irrelevant. You are the only advocate your mare has. For heaven's sake listen to her and to something for her now.

 

[southerncomfort]

I think this is one of those threads where I'm going to sit on my hands and button my lip, otherwise I'm going to fly in to a lengthy, rude and sweary rant which sadly won't make me feel any better or change anything for this poor horse.

I need to stop reading these threads.

 

[ycbm]

Does anyone know if a double move would be too much within 6 months?

From what you've written already I cannot remotely understand how you believe there is any choice, other than to move her in full livery now to the stables where you will keep her when you have moved.

Almost anything would be better than how she is living now, the poor creature.
.

 

[Arzada]

Does anyone know if a double move would be too much within 6 months? And what's the best way to adjust her after doing this working livery to her new yard/how long it could take?

Arzada was once on 3 yards in 6 months . Yard 1 for 6 months, Yard 2 for 3 months and then on to Yard 3 for 2 years. We're not habitual movers but circumstances dictated. Obviously there was a period of adjustment but all was fine because all these were small herds out 24/7 and he has excellent equine social skills having been born into a herd and is used to living in herds. Yards 1 and 2 he knew horses from a previous yard.

Don't worry about adjusting just move. After the horror of the working livery that you have described I can only imagine that you and your horse will breathe a sigh of deep relief. See posts #9 and #15 for reassurance

 

[DressageCob]

Does anyone know if there is any actual law about riding centre horses being used (not working in general)? They're not BHS-approved or anything, but I do want to make a point to them before I go that the horses they own are being worked too much

Riding schools have to be licensed by the council. That includes an inspection by a vet and checking the horses are kept in suitable accommodation and are protected from pain and suffering. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hire-out-horses-licence-england

The council is supposed to keep a log of the name, ULEN and microchip of every horse used by the riding school, and before any horse is used in the riding school it has to be examined and signed off by a vet as being suitable for that use.

Hiring out horses licensing: statutory guidance for local authorities

www.gov.uk

They are also supposed to monitor changes in behaviour. Sounds like your place is failing on a few grounds.

 

[misst]

I don't think people are "judging" you in the way you think - I believe everyone is just very shocked that a riding school would be run in this way - it does not meet the basic needs of any horse to be tied to one place all day, and the work level seems very high. Your horse has no one to advocate for her except you - so you need to do it.

No turnout would be better than what she has now and if I were you I would be looking for a grass livery for a few months even if there's a bit of a distance. Usually you can get places to do twice daily checks or employ someone to do it if needed. The benefits of grass livery are that if she has muscle pain/strain from poor handling/riding/overwork she can move freely and balance herself up a bit more. If it is all mental stress then the freedom of herd living will likely help her. A general vet check for lameness/ulcers would be useful to pinpoint any serious issues. Once you have left report the place to local trading standards and if it is BHS registered (which I doubt) report it to them.