draw rein techinque..

[pinktiger]

I dont like the arrangement at all, sorry. Contact with the horse's mouth should always be elastic. The way these reins are used in the photos/videos posted here just means the horse gets a jab if the head is raised. Not very constructive help for you OP but i dont like it

i also would worry that this was causing an inconsistant contact and even jabbing if attached to the bit!! and i thought that laura B thingy was elasticated not webbing???? dunno!!!!

 

[cptrayes]

I've never seen a pair of draw reins used in that way, but each to their own.

However, the way they are fitted is NOT using them as draw reins, it's just using a pair of draw reins instead of any old rope fitted the same way. The action of a draw rein has to be fixed at two points and sliding somewhere between those two points. This use is simply holding the horse's head down on a fixed length of rope/cord/rein without using a surcingle to attach the rope/cord/rein to. Personally, I would prefer to attach them to a surcingle or girth to avoid the possibility of interference with the elbows. Other than not running over the spine and moving with the swing of the elbows (both potentially irritating/chafing for a sensitive horse) the action would be the same.

 

[Ginn]

OP - I'd say if anything a little longer but then work on getting your horse to really push from behind. Quite often mine will slide backwards 6-8inches when she's working nicely, imo you don't want tension, the rein merely acts to guide and will only correct if you get a flip-top-head moment.

For anyone concerned about horses pratting around (note: clipped to headcollar not bit)


And encouraging the horse to work over the back....

 

[cptrayes]

Is it me? Those pictures actually look more unnatural to me than seeing my friend's mare put in very short side reins for lunging by a top International trainer. I don't understand why I would want to lunge in that ultra-low headcarriage?


ps I have now watched the video and I think your horse is just running round in circles fast, and not really using herself. I am even more doubtful about lunging that way now that I have seen it.

 

[mini-eventer]

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/392/301493.html

 

[Ginn]

Is it me? Those pictures actually look more unnatural to me than seeing my friend's mare put in very short side reins for lunging by a top International trainer. I don't understand why I would want to lunge in that ultra-low headcarriage?

But that's just the whole point about peoples total misconceptions about having horses working "on the bit"/"in an outline"/"correctly".... It has sweet fa to do with putting the head in the right place - its about teaching the horse to soften and stretch over its back, engage its abdominal muscles, push through with its hind legs and step under and also learn to relax. It is largely depends on the horse in question. Now I'm not suggesting my horse is working perfectly - infact she has a long way to go - but what I look for is that she is doing those things and where her head is is merely a consequence of everything else. The video was posted to show a horse pratting working in this way and how she neither got her legs caught nor was trapped by the gadget (or whatever you want to call it) - she was out in the middle of an open field in howling winds with several horses galloping up and down behind the camera and was being lunged by a broken me who could barely weightbare on one leg let alone do much else. She settled, softened and we called it quits.

As for the comparison of tight side reins v looser reins fixed in a different position. Each to ones own. For a start forcing my mare into an outline, particularly a tight and fixed one would 1) result in a major hissy fit; 2) result in massive amounts of tension; 3) make her sore as she has neither the strength, suppleness or muscle development to support such a posture and; 4) undo months and months of teaching her to soften into a contact and take it forward and down without a major battle. I can honestly say that guiding her using this method has helped her develop in the way I want and I have very, very carefully taken into consideration the biomechanics of quadrapedal anatomy and locomotion to achieve certain outcomes as a stage in her training but I would not suggest it would work for every horse, nor would I advise anyone to attach a rope in this fashion without understanding how its action works and what they hope to achieve.

 

[cptrayes]

Thanks for explaining. I am confused about why you would want to make an effort teach her to go so low and strung out. It looks as unnatural to me as side reins and I'm no fan of those either. But then, I don't believe in lunging either!

 

[shortstuff99]

I think the point is to soften the horse and build up the muscles in the correct places so that she will have the strangth and correct way of going to be able to work in a more advanced outline correctly. I have never seen this technique before so have found the posts interesting. I often use a passoa for lunging as I feel that it can create a more even, elastic contact without rider interference. Lunging can be a useful tool if used correctly.

 

[Piaffey]

i also use this technique, however i use the actual kalvalkade training aid. i use them on cavesson. i have never had a horse tread on them even with nose to ground. also somoeone said how do you keep both sides even - it does it it self.

I have this too and have never had a problem with it.

 

[Tnavas]

HAs anyone who has used this method regularly had any problems with chafing behind the elbow & between the front legs?

 

[Piaffey]

HAs anyone who has used this method regularly had any problems with chafing behind the elbow & between the front legs?

I use this on my daughters dwb and my mare and I have never had any problems with rubs at all.

 

[kerilli]

I use this on my daughters dwb and my mare and I have never had any problems with rubs at all.

ditto, i've never had the reins rub. i use narrow-ish nylon webbing ones which slide easily though, there are certain materials i probably wouldn't use.
one thing that happens with this method in canter, if you don't have a surcingle on, is that the reins tend to move further down the horse's back, making the horse work deeper, so if i'm going to ask the horse to do a fair bit of cantering i always put a surcingle on to keep the reins up near the wither area.

 

[mbequest]

Sorry to hijack thus thread butbi think the bigger question that needs answering is - KERILLI, what on earth are you doing awake and in HHO at 5:27am!?!?

 

[Ilovefoals]

Evelyn - I'm not really interested in your opinion tbh. Didn't ask for it, was just showing the OP that she's not the only one using this method. So mind yer own

ETA They are able to stretch down as much as they like. The rein just stops them sticking their heads up in the air!

 

[Tempi]

OP - IMO they dont need to be any tighter

To anyone who says this method is rubbish then tell that to Laura B!!!

 

[monkeybum13]

HAs anyone who has used this method regularly had any problems with chafing behind the elbow & between the front legs?

Nope, never.

 

[cptrayes]

OP - IMO they dont need to be any tighter

To anyone who says this method is rubbish then tell that to Laura B!!!

And to anyone who thinks rollkur is rubbish tell that to half the Elite Grand Prix dressage trainers in the world ?

I don't think it's rubbish but I still don't see the point. And my problem with lunging is the use of the joints, not whether it acheives a result.

 

[Horsemad12]

Hand ups - I had my mare tread on the rein (Attached to Cavesson so no panic or mouth damage)

However she is MUCH better lunged in this that any other "gadget" I have. She really stretches down (nose just off floor) and this allows her to swing behind (She is only just 5).

I have just started using a neck strap and no problems since.

I think it is a fab way of lunging, yes may look a little strange and I thought the same when I first saw it on here, but it is my mare that tells me it works and not just the forum.

I have no idea who "introduced" this to the forum but a big thanks from me.

 

[kerilli]

Hand ups - I had my mare tread on the rein (Attached to Cavesson so no panic or mouth damage)

However she is MUCH better lunged in this that any other "gadget" I have. She really stretches down (nose just off floor) and this allows her to swing behind (She is only just 5).

I have just started using a neck strap and no problems since.

I think it is a fab way of lunging, yes may look a little strange and I thought the same when I first saw it on here, but it is my mare that tells me it works and not just the forum.

I have no idea who "introduced" this to the forum but a big thanks from me.

Eeek, there's always one, isn't there. I've had them come close to treading on it, but never do so... the neckstrap solution alters the angle if it's going to the bit rings but imho makes no difference if it's going to the cavesson.
Yes, the horses show me that it works for them.
TheMule showed it on here ages ago (to bit rings not cavesson iirc) and I experimented and then posted about it.

mbequest, I was up at silly-o'clock because I'm on foalwatch and the 5 a.m. dawn chorus gets me every day.

 

[Sarah2207]

HAs anyone who has used this method regularly had any problems with chafing behind the elbow & between the front legs?

Yes! On my ultra sensitive skinned tb x, I tried putting some sheepskin sleeves around the reins, which helped. With my other wb x tb its not a problem though.

 

[BBP]

can I ask what the benefit of this method is over using a harbridge?

 

[horseywelsh]

OP - IMO they dont need to be any tighter

To anyone who says this method is rubbish then tell that to Laura B!!!

Laura B uses a long piece of elastic, not draw reins just to clarify the point - you can see the video on horsehero.

 

[zangersheide]

I too think the horse is behind the vertical, horses should be encouraged to open the poll and move forward into the bridal, not come behind it, that is just evasion of the bit

 

[Kenzo]

I have been using this method on my lad, horses for courses I guess.

I think providing you have a sensible horse to lunge (or you have got the freshness out of them) you have warmed them up first without the reins on, and you are lunging them properly (driving them well from behind with lots of transitions during trot, slow trot work and getting them working actively from behind) it works very well for trot work (I personally only use them for trot work)

It doesn't jab the horse in the mouth at all if they are the proper length, I wouldn't use the method otherwise and I'm not a lover of the Pessoa.

 

[caterpillar]

I too think the horse is behind the vertical, horses should be encouraged to open the poll and move forward into the bridal, not come behind it, that is just evasion of the bit

bridle

 

[monkeybum13]

It doesn't jab the horse in the mouth at all if they are the proper length, I wouldn't use the method otherwise and I'm not a lover of the Pessoa.

Same here, I really dislike pessoas.
Attached to the cavesson they do not jab on the mouth and the reins "slide" over the horses back, they are not fixed in position.

 

[Rouletterose]

I too think the horse is behind the vertical, horses should be encouraged to open the poll and move forward into the bridal, not come behind it, that is just evasion of the bit

Both horses are behind the vertical, there is no light elastic contact with the mouth, there is no 'movement' with the mouth, the horses are just over deep and learn to tuck in behind the bit, they are on their noses and 'hiding behind the contact'.

Horses should be ridden'up' into a light elastic contact with the riders hands with the adjusting of the rein conatct/lightness according to the movement/pace at that split second. When you have this light elastic contact and your horse has worked well, you gradually 'feed' the rein and allow the horse to stretch down long and low, this is a reward.

The horses described are just running along on their noses, quite happily evading any contact with the mouth, and not working.

 

[Ilovefoals]

Rouletterose, how can you tell all that from a couple of photos? The pics were a moment in time and I can assure you, they were stretching down into the contact a lot more than the photos showed. I probably should have tried to find better pics. But again, I DIDN'T ASK FOR ANY CC!!! Simply showing the OP how I used them.

 

[SavingGrace]

HAs anyone who has used this method regularly had any problems with chafing behind the elbow & between the front legs?

I was worried about this so I thread both reins through a sheepskin girth sleeve from between legs up to bit and I have never had any issues

 

[gunnergundog]

OK....not seen this method of using draw reins like this for lunging before....hence my question to the OP on the first page as to how they were fitted.

Apart from the rubbing between the front legs/elbows concern, my other issue is this: surely, if horse goes to raise head, then pressure is exerted over the back which will cause the back to drop and horse to hollow? Is not the idea of working a horse long and low that the hind legs are stepping under such that the abdominals are activated and the back is raised??? Am thinking out loud here, but surely the pressure over the back is only reinforcing the incorrect way of going when the horse lifts its head??