Draw reins for people who agree with them.

JessandCharlie

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Thanks for your kind comment, really made me think about things! What I'm basically saying is are they a good idea and I think in the end, without gadgets, I will have a much better outcome and be proud of what I've produced myself. So thanks for your comment x

You're very welcome :) I totally agree, stick with it and the results will be much better, not to mention more satisfying :)

Re napping, kicking etc. Have you had his back done? Kicking out is sometimes related to ulcers, which are common in racehorses. Might be worth scoping? Or keep him off all cereals (if he's fed any) and feed lots of hay, which tends to help :)

Soft hands are great. A good friend of ours, an ex-jockey once told me a story about when he started out. He was hacking head-lad at the stable who carried a hunting whip. His horse spooked, and as it did, my friend was thrown back slightly, and caught his horse in the mouth. At the same instant the head-lad cracked him across the hands the said hunting whip and told him that his horse's mouth was something he should earn and he never, ever wanted to see anything other than soft hands, be it deliberately or by accident.

That stuck with me. Earn your horse's mouth, don't demand it :)

Good luck!

J&C
 

Keeky

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I am not going to comment on your query, I have no problem with DRs per say, provided they are used for the correct means, in sympathetic, understanding and experienced hands. For some horses they are a useful tool/addition to their training and for others absolutely not necessary.

What worries me is that you say you have had 'harsh comments' on here before and wish you could 'delete' them, you have signed up as a new user purely to post this question, so on that basis, and since people have obviously questioned your ability/approach many times I would urge you not to go there, since you obviously feel a need to hide who you are, your feeling is probably that people would suggest that YOU should not use them


After your comment, I wouldn't call THEM harsh.
 

Keeky

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^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS, I am not adverse to draw reins at all, I think that they have their place in life. Used on the odd occassion I think they help a horse get an idea of how to go, as long as they are taken off, ridden and schooled without most of the time and not used as a crutch.

thats my plan!x
 

Persephone

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Keeky, I'm pretty sure who you are/were and really, you need to try and sort the good replies from the bad without getting yourself uptight about them.

Regarding draw reins, they won't finish your horse, only a firm leg into a soft hand is going to get him into a consistent outline. The trouble is he may start to drop behind the vertical with draw reins and then you have got a bundle of trouble!

As you say it sounds as though this horse may have a mouth/bitting problem, remind me, you have had the dentist?

What bit is he in exactly at the moment?
 

Queenbee

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After your comment, I wouldn't call THEM harsh.

well, if you reckon my mild comments are harsh, perhaps you are being oversensitive. One is always going to wonder why you refabricated yourself to ask if you should use draw reins.

Points to consider:

You have had a horse for approximately a month, and assume this is ample time to correct his muscles and re-train an ex race horse, you say you know how to use DRs and yet you are asking for advice on the practicality of using them. Finally, you create a whole new identity to pose the question, because of previous harsh comments in response to your posts.

Keeky, it was nothing personal, but any responsible poster would pick up on these facts, if you have a fantastic horse, don't rush it, and don't use DRs to rush it, 1 month is a blink of an eye in the retraining of a race horse, and don't take offence, they were genuine concerns and queries. Your defensive attitude, does not set you in the best of lights. Furthermore, if you had posed this question under you original username, perhaps my opinion would have been a bit different.

I wish u luck, whatever approach you choose.
 

maresmaid

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Thanks for your kind comment, really made me think about things! What I'm basically saying is are they a good idea and I think in the end, without gadgets, I will have a much better outcome and be proud of what I've produced myself. So thanks for your comment x

^^ Good decision! 5 is still very young, be patient and I am sure you will acheive your objective.
 

Keeky

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You're very welcome :) I totally agree, stick with it and the results will be much better, not to mention more satisfying :)

Re napping, kicking etc. Have you had his back done? Kicking out is sometimes related to ulcers, which are common in racehorses. Might be worth scoping? Or keep him off all cereals (if he's fed any) and feed lots of hay, which tends to help :)

Soft hands are great. A good friend of ours, an ex-jockey once told me a story about when he started out. He was hacking head-lad at the stable who carried a hunting whip. His horse spooked, and as it did, my friend was thrown back slightly, and caught his horse in the mouth. At the same instant the head-lad cracked him across the hands the said hunting whip and told him that his horse's mouth was something he should earn and he never, ever wanted to see anything other than soft hands, be it deliberately or by accident.

That stuck with me. Earn your horse's mouth, don't demand it :)

Good luck!

J&C


He had his back done along with his teeth back in June so I'm not sure?
He is just on hay and turnout at the moment but when I take him to college he'll be on pasture cubes and fibregy on october 2nd:)

thats such an inspiring storyyy, I'll remember that for life!

thanks so much! good luck for the future!
x
 

Keeky

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Keeky, I'm pretty sure who you are/were and really, you need to try and sort the good replies from the bad without getting yourself uptight about them.

Regarding draw reins, they won't finish your horse, only a firm leg into a soft hand is going to get him into a consistent outline. The trouble is he may start to drop behind the vertical with draw reins and then you have got a bundle of trouble!

As you say it sounds as though this horse may have a mouth/bitting problem, remind me, you have had the dentist?

What bit is he in exactly at the moment?

He is in a hollow mouth snaffle atm! I wass thinking rather than draw reins of putting him into a hanging cheek snaffle which when you take up a contact puts pressure on the poll, obviously that won't complete my training him to collect up but it'll let him know where I want the front of him to be ofcourse with me helping him to engage his back end. I did speak to the previous owners but she said keep the bit he has in now but i don't think he likes it? The dentist was out in June
 

grhands

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I'm not anti draw reins. I have a pair.

Ok, here goes.

'Outline' Ie, head on or in front of the vertical, should be a result of working through the scales of training, moving forward freely from behind, in balance and rhythm softly into a light contact. Draw reins effectively increase the mechanical strength from the hand, pulling the head down and back, rather than allowing the neck to stretch forward and the horse to gently soften at the poll.
My suggestion would be to persevere with schooling correctly, rather than taking a short cut. Plenty of working long and low, transitions, circles, hill work. Eventually, he will begin to find a correct balance and work from behind and soften into a nice shape. It is this shape which is the last thing to come. Unfortunately the draw reins will be putting the horse's head where 'it should be' before the rest is established, and therefore he probably won't be working truly through.

Keep cracking, I promise it's worth it in the end.

Draw reins are, IMO, not to be used to create an outline, but to help contain a sharp, fresh bugger of a horse ;)

I hope this makes sense. He's a young horse, sounds like you've done a good job so far but keep cracking, it will come :)

J&C

Perfect :cool:
 

Fii

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Not going to comment on draw reins, as i have never felt the need for them.
But on the subject of bits, i have to say i am not a big fan of hollow snaffles, the one i have is very thick, and can be to much for horses with small mouths.
I like the hanging cheek snaffle, and find i have more control with it than a normal snaffle, although, i have been informed that it does'nt have the poll presure you think it does.
 

Keeky

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Not going to comment on draw reins, as i have never felt the need for them.
But on the subject of bits, i have to say i am not a big fan of hollow snaffles, the one i have is very thick, and can be to much for horses with small mouths.
I like the hanging cheek snaffle, and find i have more control with it than a normal snaffle, although, i have been informed that it does'nt have the poll presure you think it does.


I think I am going to use a hanging cheek snaffle, well on the websites it does say on all of them about poll pressure but tbh I don't care about that, i just want his mouth to be sound and i don't want him to be in pain so i'll have to try out different bits on him :)
He does have quite a small mouth yeahh :)
Yeahh hanging cheek is next on the list.
 

JessandCharlie

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It's a bit of a misconception about hanging cheeks having poll pressure. Sol has a picture that demonstrates how they don't perfectly :) I think it tends to hold the bit steadier in their mouths, however, which some horses like. If your horse is anything like my TB, he may have a small mouth and quite a low roof of his mouth, so a single joint might not suit. I'd be inclined to try a french link :)

J&C
 

Girlracer

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It's a bit of a misconception about hanging cheeks having poll pressure. Sol has a picture that demonstrates how they don't perfectly :) I think it tends to hold the bit steadier in their mouths, however, which some horses like. If your horse is anything like my TB, he may have a small mouth and quite a low roof of his mouth, so a single joint might not suit. I'd be inclined to try a french link :)

J&C

I'd agree with this, my thoroughbred goes 100% better in a french link of a single jointed. I've not tried a hanging cheek but i school in a loose ring with a lozenge and do faster work in a full cheek (so i can turn!!!!) with a french link.

I have put draw reins on him a few times, but only when i know he's going to be sharp. And only so i can stay on board :eek: it's a long hard road but they do get there eventually, maybe have a few lessons on him? However experienced you are someone on the ground will see something you can't. It helped me and Major no end.
 

Tnavas

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Hi guys, my ex race horse is almost there with using all the different muscles needed for his new career now. He is ALMOST there with his training, do you think I could put some draw reins at him at this stage?
He's 5. x

& please no harsh comments like a few I've had in here. Shame i can't delete them. People seem to get the wrong end of the stick of WHY i'm asking. I know HOW to use them and what purpose they serve so please no mean comments :)

If he is almost there then keep going as you are as you are obviously doing the right thing.
 

Keeky

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I think it's clear I shouldn't use draw reins..haha! I'm going to try him in a french link snaffle. & if he's still sharp on the roads, which is paramount for both of our safety to have correct tack and for me to be able to control him, I will TRY him with draw reins.
 

Queenbee

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I think it's clear I shouldn't use draw reins..haha! I'm going to try him in a french link snaffle. & if he's still sharp on the roads, which is paramount for both of our safety to have correct tack and for me to be able to control him, I will TRY him with draw reins.

Keeky, the reason I emphasised that it would be good to have seen your usual posts is that it is generally hard to give someone advice without knowing more fully their ability and the scenario.

I think that suggesting that you were being over-sensitive in response to my comments was not unfair, because my comments were not aimed to hurt/insult or distress you, I hope you understand that.

With regards to french link snaffles, I use these and they are pretty versatile bits, my mare can be a right handful (or could be, she has relaxed with time) I'd recommend trying a loose ring, french link with a copper mix, they are fantastic for use with sharp horses, they are really good bits for schooling, but also prevent the horse from taking a hold on the bit and leaning on it. It has given me the upper hand with my mare on many occasion!
http://www.countrysupplies.com/item...oose+Ring+Snaffle+with+Elliptical+Link+-+1523
 

Keeky

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Keeky, the reason I emphasised that it would be good to have seen your usual posts is that it is generally hard to give someone advice without knowing more fully their ability and the scenario.

I think that suggesting that you were being over-sensitive in response to my comments was not unfair, because my comments were not aimed to hurt/insult or distress you, I hope you understand that.

With regards to french link snaffles, I use these and they are pretty versatile bits, my mare can be a right handful (or could be, she has relaxed with time) I'd recommend trying a loose ring, french link with a copper mix, they are fantastic for use with sharp horses, they are really good bits for schooling, but also prevent the horse from taking a hold on the bit and leaning on it. It has given me the upper hand with my mare on many occasion!
http://www.countrysupplies.com/item...oose+Ring+Snaffle+with+Elliptical+Link+-+1523


Thank you for explaining how you meant it to me :) I do understand that & thanks.

Do you not think a french link would be good? also encouraging him to not lean on the forehand? Is there a bit that rarely goes wrong with a tb? I'm thinking a hanging cheek french link? Or is that quite excessive?
You're tempting me to use the copper mix hha! Is it good out hacking etc?
Thank you for the link!! it looks like a kind bit as well!
 

copper100

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Why don't you try a bungee, works from the poll so therefore doesn't rely on the softness of the riders hands. Easily adjustable and start off loose, but does sound like your horse needs to work more from behind and this can only be done with forward.

Hope this helps.
 

Queenbee

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Thank you for explaining how you meant it to me :) I do understand that & thanks.

Do you not think a french link would be good? also encouraging him to not lean on the forehand? Is there a bit that rarely goes wrong with a tb? I'm thinking a hanging cheek french link? Or is that quite excessive?
You're tempting me to use the copper mix hha! Is it good out hacking etc?
Thank you for the link!! it looks like a kind bit as well!

Keeky, I prefer to use the lozenge rather than a french link, they are much of a muchness, but I find that the lozenge is often more comfortable on the tongue than the fl, although in essence they have the same effect. With the loose ring, you will find that it does have the effect of backing a horse off the forehand because it keeps moving, therefore they can not take an effective hold. The copper mix is fantastic because it encourages acceptance, salavation and softness in the mouth, combining the link/lozenge, loose ring and copper mix is really effective.

Ebony was a stargazer who leant dreadfully on the bit and also was verrrry flighty on hacks, I changed to this bit and never looked back, If I am doing some heavy duty hunting or jumping I will pop her in a dutch gag, but to ride her in that long term is unadvisable for her as she gets too used to it and it is less effective, for schooling and general riding however, I have ample control and sensitivity with the bit I showed you. In addition it is gentle, I use it to mouth my youngster hence saying how very versatile it is!

With regards to DRs, I did use them with ebony, but more to stop her going above the bit, as long as she kept her head at a 'natural level' they did not come into effect. I used them for hacking and to stop the risk of them slipping and becoming dangerous I gathered them up and tied a knot in the excess so they were more like the length of normal reins. I worked hard from the leg for miles and miles, one day I suddenly felt like I was on an 18hh horse and not a hollow backed emu! and the blessing is that she suddenly realised at that same point that it was far easier to walk with her back up than hollow.

With regard to the bit however, I would say that I have seen many an upfront TB who leans on the bit, go very well in one of these and be controllable, and I have had Madam Ebs in hers for about 6 years now and she is still as responsive in it as she first was. :)
 

Keeky

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Why don't you try a bungee, works from the poll so therefore doesn't rely on the softness of the riders hands. Easily adjustable and start off loose, but does sound like your horse needs to work more from behind and this can only be done with forward.

Hope this helps.

I've just done some research-
Draw reins- "Useless and force their heads down into false outline" I did have some idea of that but I thought with the correct schooling and only using them 2 or 3 times a week maybe and then gradually less.

Read up that bungees- "Work on the topline without forcing" So I think it's going to be bungees :) You definately get what I've been trying to explain! Exactly what he needs to work on! & You think bungees are the best thing?
 

rachmacypixie111

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Most of the liveries on my old yard used to ride in draw reins on a daily basis!!! I had never ridden in draw reins although I used to be a groom 10 yrs ago - working at a trekking centre, a racing yard, a dressage yard and a showjumping yard.
I had a lesson off the YO on one of the liveries horses - a nice 16.2 TB (never raced) - I didnt get her on the bit straight away (what a suprise!) and also this was due to my riding!!!
But.... the YO made me put draw reins on.
I never had a lesson again and moved yards!!!
 

copper100

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Glad that you did some research and yes I do believe that for your situation a bungee would really help you, as I said start off loose and adjust accordingly.

A bungee is a really soft aid, as in it gives and takes with the horses natural movement. Try lunging in it first if needed. You need to make sure your horse is working from behind, to create a true outline.
 

Keeky

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Yeah and thinkig about it, putting him in draw reins would be cruel when he hasn't got te right muscles built up yet and to add hes a baby really! So I'm goof to try the bungees:) can a bungee be worn with a running martingale? I rarely see it but i'm sure you can!
 

bumblelion

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I'm not against draw reins but find exracers better without gadgets, I find they get their knickers in a knot! Lots of leg!! He'll soon learn and get it!! It's very easy to put the gadgets on to achieve what you want, but take them off and you're back to square one! I find with exracers, lots of repetition and patience, they're very quick to learn so I'm sure yours will soon click with what you're asking!
 

Queenbee

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different horses react differently to different gadgets, DR are not always bad, bungees are not always good, snaffles are sometimes harsh in the wrong hands. As long as you do your research, and find what works best for you and your horse you will be fine, just remember that all gadgets bits tools and aids work badly when the rider is not 'sympathetic' and they are being used in a forceful way, this can include bungees. I have used both, they can both be really good, ebony hated bungees but was fine with DR but they were not used to create any kind of outline. You will find what is right for you two and you seem to be going the right way about it.

Good luck :)
 

Keeky

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You will not BELIEVE this!
He wasn't ridden sinse last saturday. Got on him today- his head was down and relaxed, so activeee from behind! He has come on SO much by simply having a week off! It was an actual MIRACLE! Same bit etc. However, he reared up with me and was very spooky and his saddle is RIDICULOUS so buying him a new saddle on thursday it was actually flipping up at the back!
He's really narrow on his shoulders so I may get him an eventing saddle so it's not on his shoulders! Optimus shires event looks perfect and has good reviews and they said it's good for thoroughbred builds so I think that'll be great for him :)
 
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