Draw reins on youngsters??

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buntybaby

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Hi all

Just wanting peoples opinion on this!
I have just seen pics of my recently ex trainer riding her rising 5 yr WB dressage in draw reins :eek:at a clinic with a very well known dr trainer! Now i know the horse quite well and can't honestly see why she should need to ride him in them as he's got a laid back temp and seems really trainable etc, was just completely shocked tbh! He is 16.3hh easily and has quite big expressive paces and she can't be more than 5ft6, maybe she's a bit over-horsed but still!
What do you guys think about using draw reins on young horses? Is it necessary or does it just create problems later in life?
Personally don't agree with them on a young horse although do think they have a purpose for older much more established horses in the very short term!
Any thoughts?? :)
 
Ask her reasons for using them. I have no qualms about using draw reins as I know how to use them properly. Many people don't and that's where the problem lies.
 
I have no problems with using them as a method of control. For example to stop the horse rearing/bucking or just to stop giraffe like head action. They are not a permanent solution though, and imho should not be used for schooling.
 
Firstly - everyone has so many opinions on draw reins, so it is never going to be a "one size fits all" answer.

In a perfect world, no, there is no need for draw reins. Or side reins. Or chambons. Or pessoas. Or martingales. Or flash/drop/grackle nosebands. Or nosebands at all really. But this is certainly not a perfect world and horses need guidance and rules to work correctly. I agree that there is no replacement or "quick fix" for correct schooling, however IMHO draw reins serve a function. They can be good for horses who like to rear as it can (in the right hands / situation) prevent them from throwing the head and can stop the behaviour before it has begun. They do however, IMHO have a purpose in a menage too. If a horse is so inconsistant in their head contact, it can be used (and I have to great success with my youngster recently) to guide them into the hand. They can be used to guide the horses head down and from there the horse can find self-carridge. I feel thatwhen they are used to "tie" the horse down, the major problem arrises. As soon as you take them off, you will be back where you were as the horse won't have learned anything for himself!!

But they can give the horse boundaries from which they can work. I also feel that they shouldnt be used every day (the horse needs to balance and carry himself). But they are in my tack room and I think they are useful.


WRT your trainer - you could just ask? She may have a genuine reason for using a schooling aid.
 
Why should they not be used for schooling? That's the point of them! Not to strap your horses head down, as extra brakes or as a form of control. They are a guide - the same as most correctly used schooling aids.

Draw reins can be used differently depending upon what you are trying to teach your horse. But the one thing you can always do with them is drop them. You work away with your horse get it going how you wish it to then release them so they are doing abolsutely nothing but swinging around - not loose enough for the horse to get tangled in evidently. If said horse then reverts back to how it went before you can pick up the DR's again and work away again.

If you don't know how to use DR's then quite simply don't. If you feel that they would benefit your horse then book a lesson with an instructor who knows how to use them correctly.
 
I hate them. They have ruined many horses that I know of. They have the long term effect of making them very heavy and strong to ride without them. I really can't see why anyone needs to use them. If you can't train a horse to go in a nice round shape and be light in front without them, then you are not a good enough rider for the horse IMO.
 
Wagtail said:
I hate them. They have ruined many horses that I know of. They have the long term effect of making them very heavy and strong to ride without them. I really can't see why anyone needs to use them. If you can't train a horse to go in a nice round shape and be light in front without them, then you are not a good enough rider for the horse IMO.
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Very well said^^^^^ I don't use draw reins, side reins, any pulleys contraptions of any sort, I also don't use a flash noseband or a drop.

My horses are well schooled "up" light and forward.

Horses that I have seen, know, that are schooled in draw reins constantly have their heads between their knees, not good!!
 
Personally, I don't see the point, BUT my former boss used to insist on me using them when I was riding his youngstock on the grounds that he was much stronger than me... THAT never made much sense to me. HOWEVER, if you're NOT using them to winch a young horse's head in, they CAN be quite useful, in the sense that they provide 2 'anchor' points (chest/between legs and the rider's hand) which CAN provide a more even/steady contact between bit and hand.
 
Rouletterose said:
Very well said^^^^^ I don't use draw reins, side reins, any pulleys contraptions of any sort, I also don't use a flash noseband or a drop.

My horses are well schooled "up" light and forward.

Horses that I have seen, know, that are schooled in draw reins constantly have their heads between their knees, not good!!
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It's refreshing that more and more people are abandoning the flash. I just hope the bridle manufacturers catch up with the trend. It's so hard finding a good choice of bridles without a flash, though I think the situaton is improving. I find horses are much more relaxed without having their mouths clamped closed and the result is a much ligter forehand.
 
And then you get the flip side of the coin - I have used them to lower the head carraige of horses to stretch out and use their backs and back ends, I had a particularly front heavy horse to ride and he is now nice and light and fluffy, keen horses have become more accepting of carrying themselves, stubborn wee beasties have been taught self carraige byusing them.

I use them for 15 mins a time twice a week. The rest of the time the horses are hacking, schooling, jumping and yeehaaing in simple eggbutt snaffles with normal cavesson nosebands. Each and every one of these horses can work up through their back ends into their bridles with no fuss, none of them lean, none of them are particularly strong any more and the one I have been getting to stretch out has chilled out and relaxed now that she realises that you don't have to have your head up high and in and boucing along.

They have their uses when used correctly! It's the idiots who don't know how to use them that muck horses up with them.
 
You are obviously very considered and skilful in your use of them. Unfortunately too many people ride them more often with draw reins than without. Maybe I have been lucky. I have retrained lots of ex-race horses. They nearly all want to go round hollow like giraffs to start with and don't understand contact at all. But I have not found one yet that couldn't be trained out of this very quickly indeed with no artificial aids at all. Perhaps TBs are unusual in this? I have never trained any heavyweight horses. I have a lovely warmblood at my yard at the moment who was ridden lots in drawreins. Her owner was made to have all her lessons in them too. She is the most wriggly and strong mouthed horse I have ever ridden. Had her mouth is completely ruined. I still manage to get her light and round without drawreins, but hell is it hard work!
 
See I dont like them when they are used everyday, I think that is wayyyy too much. Maybe you have been lucky retraining your ex-racers Wagtail. I am not saying that the results draw reins can achieve cannot be achieved without them, but they can be a good lesson for a horse as to what is and isnt expected of them. In general, I like to train as I compete and I am as gadget-free as possible. But if something is going to benefit my horses way of going I am not going to rule it out when used responsably.
 
None of the ones I have worked on are heavyweight horses - they are race horses in training being taught fleibility, to think and to listen. It also gives them a very good grounding for when they leave us to start a new life.
 
I've used them on one particular horse who needed them who was 5 but I've only found one horse who.worked well in them generally they male things worse in the long term. but ask her she might have a reason
 
I deteste draw reins!, and dont consider them of any benefit, I think everyone who uses them consider themselves to be expert users
 
Wagtail said:
I hate them. They have ruined many horses that I know of. They have the long term effect of making them very heavy and strong to ride without them. I really can't see why anyone needs to use them. If you can't train a horse to go in a nice round shape and be light in front without them, then you are not a good enough rider for the horse IMO.
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i'm sorry but i don't agree with this. draw reins haven't ruined horses...its plonkers who don't know how to use draw reins that have ruined the horses! ditto people who don't know what they are doing with various other bits of kit. OP...in response to your question why don't you just ask? they probably have a good reason. my now 6 year old can be a spooky sod and as a 5 year old had to spend a bit of time in draw reins to nip the behaviour in the bud. they weren't used for winching him into a false outline, they were a safety thing to stop him being able to perform his monster spooks quite so easily :)

it really bugs me when people criticise what other people are doing when they don't know the full story. and as for " If you can't train a horse to go in a nice round shape and be light in front without them, then you are not a good enough rider for the horse IMO" i think you need to have a chat with some of the top riders in the world wagtail! i went to a clinic with mark todd (yes the olympic gold medallist etc etc...often considered to be very soft, kind rider etc etc) and there was a young horse there who was behaving quite badly. MT ended up getting on it and he struggled to get anything out of it. his advice was that it needed a few sessions in draw reins... not to strap it in but so that the horse could understand what was being asked of it.....
 
I use draw reins. I've been classically trained. 99.9% off the time they are swinging in the breeze. They are there because my horse is fussy in the contact and has huge paces that she doesn't have the strength to balance with, they help me settle her a little without a huge battle.
I'm not overhorsed, I rode for a living, my mare is light through her shoulder, works correctly over her back, is lovely, light and even in the contact, listens, is off the aids and progressing well in her training.
I cringe when i see draw reins being used incorrectly but don't tarr all with the same brush. Used correctly, they are a very helpful aid.
 
I use draw reins on my cob, when my TB is established enough I will use them on her.
Firstly I only use them AFTER the horse can carry themselves in self carriage.
Secondly I don't have them tight, they are generally loose in a similar fashion to how a curb rein should be when riding in a double bridle/pelham with 2 reins.
Thirdly I have been taught how to use them properly.

With my cob I use them when I want to work on his lateral work, he is currently working at novice level and I am trying to move up to elementary. I find he goes better with them on than without! He is very soft mouth (and I ride with very little contact anyway - all my horses are classically trained i/e from the seat - I can turn both the cob and the welsh with no reins at all, the TB is not even close to being at that level yet!) therefore I use them so that I don't have to worry about his head carriage and can focus on something else. I use them once a fortnight perhaps? Sorry if that doesn't make sense - I've had a few!!
 
Some of your views on here have made me feel much better. I felt terrible that my mare who had been away for training had been ridden in draw reins after posting a vid on here (CR actually) and people who commented said they couldn't understand why I had them on, get a new trainer, they were too loose to be anything other than annoying etc etc. I was trying to explain to people they weren't there to pull her head in and make her look pretty, they were there for cases where she hauls me out of the saddle due to balance issues or plain rudeness, and for the huge spooks she can throw in. I was so upset to think I had potentially ruined her! I'm glad some people here have used them for the same reason as me, makes me feel a whole lot better!
 
I think they are a quick (and temporary) fix. Yes a horse may be light afterwards, but they soon go back to their bad habits. When a horse comes to me for training, I can spot a mile off, those that have had draw reins used on them. My own trainer tried to get me to use them once on my mare. I never did and she is the lightest, easiest horse to do dressage on. Got her to medium level easily without them before she sadly had to retire due to injury. Once draw reins have been used, they will need 'reminder' sessions in them as the old problems tend to recur. It would be very easy for me to get quick results with draw reins, on the mare I was discussing in another post, but unless I wanted to keep using them, it would only be a temporary fix.
 
diggerbez said:
i think you need to have a chat with some of the top riders in the world wagtail! i went to a clinic with mark todd (yes the olympic gold medallist etc etc...often considered to be very soft, kind rider etc etc) and there was a young horse there who was behaving quite badly. MT ended up getting on it and he struggled to get anything out of it. his advice was that it needed a few sessions in draw reins... not to strap it in but so that the horse could understand what was being asked of it.....
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Ah but he was doing a clinic! I bet you with a couple of sessions he could get something out of the horse without resorting to draw reins. He was giving advice to someone of lesser ability than himself without being able to be there to guide them through it, so rather than explain how they should be riding the horse (not possible without being there giving them a one to one lesson) he took the easy way out and suggested draw reins. Not the right response IMO but these top riders do not have the time to do everything.
 
Certainly you can see on h@c lucinda fredericks at home jumping I think it is prada in draw reins.

I am sure most top riders have them in their cupboard and I am reliably informed a very well know top dressage rider in this country either uses them or a double bridle when schooling his horses at home, to avoid having to resort to strength to hold them together.

Most top riders though will use them as a tool only and if necessary, which imo is for a very short time as a guide and certainly not regularly in which case they can be useful, I used to be dead against them however I have a pair as my big chap would not round in the canter and thought you had to go around very forward with your head in the air, a couple of sesions only with draw reins at the canter only, totally altered the way he goes.
His canter is now his best pace, and the draw reins now remain in the cupboard. No reminder session ever needed, call it a lightbulb moment.

I also have had a horse who had been strapped in draw reins as a 4yo to sell , he never got over his problem of overbending.
 
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I've used draw reins (when no one was looking obviously) as a means of gently explaining to my horse what I wanted. For a particular horse with a particular problem they're useful in the very short term, I'd never use them on my current horse, they're just not appropriate for him. Don't get why anyone would use them as a matter of course.

I guess as with most things, it's not the tool, it's the person using it that does the damage
 
lannerch said:
Certainly you can see on h@c lucinda fredericks at home jumping I think it is prada in draw reins.

I am sure most top riders have them in their cupboard and I am reliably informed a very well know top dressage rider in this country either uses them or a double bridle when schooling his horses at home, to avoid having to resort to strength to hold them together.
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Draw reins are, in effect, using strength as they are holding a horse by force. They give extra strength to the rider by anchoring the rein and changing the angle of the force being exerted.

The only time I could ever envisage using them is on a horse that was just too big and strong for me. But then, I would never buy something that was too much horse for me. I once had a 17.2hh ID dumped on me (by a non paying livery). It took everything I had to hold him together (in his snaffle) even though he did go beautifully for me. But I could have made it easier wth draw reins I suppose. I ended up mainly hacking him though as I just don't enjoy schooling big heavy horses.
 
lannerch said:
Certainly you can see on h@c lucinda fredericks at home jumping I think it is prada in draw reins.

I am sure most top riders have them in their cupboard and I am reliably informed a very well know top dressage rider in this country either uses them or a double bridle when schooling his horses at home, to avoid having to resort to strength to hold them together.

Most top riders though will use them as a tool only and if necessary, which imo is for a very short time as a guide and certainly not regularly in which case they can be useful, I used to be dead against them however I have a pair as my big chap would not round in the canter and thought you had to go around very forward with your head in the air, a couple of sesions only with draw reins at the canter only, totally altered the way he goes.
His canter is now his best pace, and the draw reins now remain in the cupboard. No reminder session ever needed, call it a lightbulb moment.

I also have had a horse who had been strapped in draw reins as a 4yo to sell , he never got over his problem of overbending.
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HOLDING THEM TOGETHER? STRENGTH? whatever happened to lightness?
 
Some horses take strength initially to achieve lightness. The key is instant release and reward which cannot be acheived with draw reins.
 
Wagtail said:
Ah but he was doing a clinic! I bet you with a couple of sessions he could get something out of the horse without resorting to draw reins. He was giving advice to someone of lesser ability than himself without being able to be there to guide them through it, so rather than explain how they should be riding the horse (not possible without being there giving them a one to one lesson) he took the easy way out and suggested draw reins. Not the right response IMO but these top riders do not have the time to do everything.
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oh no he was very clear "if i had this horse at home i would have it in draw reins for a few sessions" was what he said. many top top riders use them...they just don't often admit to it because so many people get their knickers in a twist about them ;)
i think its fantastic that you don't need to use them, i really do, but i also don't have an issue that some of our top riders use them either... :)
 
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