cptrayes
Well-Known Member
And yours cost less to feed 
Draw reins on youngsters??
- Thread starter buntybaby
- Start date
Wagtail
Horse servant
I said that one of the things that makes draw reins bad is they are less precise than direct rein and they rely on force to tie a horses head down. When lunging it is very bad to have a horse going around like a giraffe, don't you agree? In the absence of a rider I prefer to use the degouge, chambon or pessoa. None of these tie the head down like draw reins. I said that I only use side reins occasionally, (actually maybe once a year. I can't remember the last time I did as I can't really see a use for them any more) and that is only on horses that are already established. I would never use side reins ridden. My argument is why use artificial aids when riding if you have a much better and more affective thing to use? The expertise of the rider.
Elf On A Shelf
...
Draw reins don't rely on force! If you use them correctly then they apply gentle pressure which is released when the horse gets the idea and goes how you wish it to go. Only idiots pin their horses heads in with draw reins that are far too tight. You can give and take with draw reins. Chambons, side reins and to an extent pessoa's aren't any where near as flexible as draw reins are.
Tnavas
Well-Known Member
I've been very good for the past few days by not reading this post but curiosity got the better of me in the end!
I don't use draw reins as I don't like the fact that they can be constantly wound in and can easily become to restrictive, but I have at times used a Market HArborough for horses that are either spooky or have found the transition into canter difficult.
As a classically trained person - draw reins are just not in the training equipment list. I generally repeat basic work until the horse has understood what is required and has built the muscles to do the work correctly. I lunge a lot in side reins - long enough to encourage the horse to seek the contact rather than to be held in place by them.
I don't use draw reins as I don't like the fact that they can be constantly wound in and can easily become to restrictive, but I have at times used a Market HArborough for horses that are either spooky or have found the transition into canter difficult.
As a classically trained person - draw reins are just not in the training equipment list. I generally repeat basic work until the horse has understood what is required and has built the muscles to do the work correctly. I lunge a lot in side reins - long enough to encourage the horse to seek the contact rather than to be held in place by them.
Wagtail
Horse servant
I guess I just cannot see a good use for them. If a horse s being ridden by someone who understands 'feel' enough to use them unrestrictingly (though still question that) then that person is perfectly able to acheive better results without them. I have trained countless horses over 30 years and have never needed them. All I have experienced are horses that have had their mouths and way of going ruined by over use of them.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
They are useful for stopping a horse chucking his head up. Idiots use them to tie the head down, but no-one sensible uses them to force a headcarriage that the horse is not ready for. They are great, for example, for a short time, to demonstrate to a horse that he really is, although he doesn't think so, capable of taking a canter transition without throwing his shoulders up and his head and neck up and backwards. Once he understands that it is possible for him to strike off without the head-throw, you can stop using them. What's more, you can even stop using them without getting off the horse or changing your tack in any way.
ellie_e
Well-Known Member
On my youngster i use a 'bungie' nicer than draw reins as it doesnt strap his head down, but encourages him to use himself correctly ( i have no issues with draw reins and use them on my older horse) the bungie is great for riding and lunging, also use a market harborough on him for hacking as he is spooky. All these different 'training aids' are just that...an aid, and aslong as they are used correctly I do not have any issues with them, when they are being miss used or overused that is when problems start.
LegOn
Well-Known Member
I have to say I used to completely hate them but when I was showed how they would help my horse & I have seen the results, I have to say I think that like everything - they have their place when used correctly!
I've had him 3 years but he spent the previous 12 years in a riding school & had learnt to hold himself in the most awkward way in order to avoid pain from so many different riders. After a long time of osteo to get all his muscles unlocked and free him from discomfort, his back muscles werent strong enough to effectively carry a rider or continue jumping, I was advised to get his muscles strong but he doesnt understand long & low or contact - he spent his life evading it & now has muscle memory pain..
After some lessons with an eventer in the use of draw reins & alot of patience - a few months later, he has re-learned how to carry himself, the muscle across his back is stronger, he is generally happier (not going around with his ears pinned back!) and will be fitter & healthier for longer! So they do have their uses - like anything too much of a good thing is even bad!
I've had him 3 years but he spent the previous 12 years in a riding school & had learnt to hold himself in the most awkward way in order to avoid pain from so many different riders. After a long time of osteo to get all his muscles unlocked and free him from discomfort, his back muscles werent strong enough to effectively carry a rider or continue jumping, I was advised to get his muscles strong but he doesnt understand long & low or contact - he spent his life evading it & now has muscle memory pain..
After some lessons with an eventer in the use of draw reins & alot of patience - a few months later, he has re-learned how to carry himself, the muscle across his back is stronger, he is generally happier (not going around with his ears pinned back!) and will be fitter & healthier for longer! So they do have their uses - like anything too much of a good thing is even bad!
lassiesuca
Well-Known Member
I think a lot of the issue is that people don't get what working properly means.
So many people think that a horse working in an outline means it's head is down and that's about as far as it extends and perhaps they elaborate on the lifting of the back. But do people really understand how to achieve this and WHY we need to achieve this.
The first thing, is we must look at how a horse in conformated. Some horses have large necks, others have thin, long necks, others have short and compact necks. For some horses, their poll at the highest point is most comfortable and for others it may be slightly below the vertical.
I feel that draw reins prevent this action, I believe that they act as a mould and I see so many horses leaning on the rein. I agree that it isn't so much the draw reins, that ruin them, but the rider. However, if a rider is competent enough to train with draw reins 'correctly' then it is in my opinion that a rider can train without draw reins.
A horse needs to be balanced, light, supple and I feel that draw reins can block this action. So many 'correct' riders, lean and they are unbalanced, they block their horses movement and as a consequence, the horse doesn't actually work correctly and then out come the draw reins.
In response to one poster on here, just a query;
you say you only ride in draw reins once your horse has achieved self-carriage. Surely once your horse is capable of demonstrating this, he doesn't need them and more importantly, you know he can do it without so perhaps you are preventing this?
Just a thought. Am at school so have to go now. But will continue later.
So many people think that a horse working in an outline means it's head is down and that's about as far as it extends and perhaps they elaborate on the lifting of the back. But do people really understand how to achieve this and WHY we need to achieve this.
The first thing, is we must look at how a horse in conformated. Some horses have large necks, others have thin, long necks, others have short and compact necks. For some horses, their poll at the highest point is most comfortable and for others it may be slightly below the vertical.
I feel that draw reins prevent this action, I believe that they act as a mould and I see so many horses leaning on the rein. I agree that it isn't so much the draw reins, that ruin them, but the rider. However, if a rider is competent enough to train with draw reins 'correctly' then it is in my opinion that a rider can train without draw reins.
A horse needs to be balanced, light, supple and I feel that draw reins can block this action. So many 'correct' riders, lean and they are unbalanced, they block their horses movement and as a consequence, the horse doesn't actually work correctly and then out come the draw reins.
In response to one poster on here, just a query;
you say you only ride in draw reins once your horse has achieved self-carriage. Surely once your horse is capable of demonstrating this, he doesn't need them and more importantly, you know he can do it without so perhaps you are preventing this?
Just a thought. Am at school so have to go now. But will continue later.
chicaboo
Member
I have posted on this subject before - expressing concern at badly used draw reins by a know it all teen with a lovely and expensive horse. Update; continually used whenever ridden and before warming up this horse has now lost its big expressive trot, drags its rear around in canter and is permantly on the forehand with its nose on its knees. It has started to buck and objects to being mounted. Any acknowledgement that draw reins are to blame. Dont be silly!! After all top riders use them and this particular teen believes she has the lightest of hands and also thinks that this extreme 'behind the bridle' is actually correct!! I rest my case....
chicaboo
Member
problem is everyone 'thinks' they know how to use them properly - few actually do - no judgement on this particular person as havent seen them use draw reins
madlady
Well-Known Member
In the right hands and for the right reasons then draw reins - for some horses - can make an improvement.
When I started my girl a few years ago she had quite a fixed 'upright' head carriage and was very on the forehand naturally (friesian) I didn't want to lunge her as she wasn't balanced enough so used draw reins, at walk, while hacking to gently ask her to lower her head and to teach her an elastic contact. After using them two or three times she seemed to 'get it' I saw an improvement in her position and head carriage - she was lighter and wasn't leaning so I stopped using them. Have never used them with her since as I haven't needed to.
I'm not saying that I advocate the use of draw reins, just trying to highlight that they can be very beneficial.
I do agree however that they are horribly overused and in the wrong hands can completely ruin a horse.
When I started my girl a few years ago she had quite a fixed 'upright' head carriage and was very on the forehand naturally (friesian) I didn't want to lunge her as she wasn't balanced enough so used draw reins, at walk, while hacking to gently ask her to lower her head and to teach her an elastic contact. After using them two or three times she seemed to 'get it' I saw an improvement in her position and head carriage - she was lighter and wasn't leaning so I stopped using them. Have never used them with her since as I haven't needed to.
I'm not saying that I advocate the use of draw reins, just trying to highlight that they can be very beneficial.
I do agree however that they are horribly overused and in the wrong hands can completely ruin a horse.
Rouletterose
Well-Known Member
I have seen so many incidents almost identical to what you describe above, many, many over the years, on yards, at shows everywhere! it makes me sick.
KatB
Well-Known Member
No, the draw reins haven't ruined him, the incorrect use of them by the person hanging off the end of them has.
YasandCrystal
Well-Known Member
I agree with this. I believe that they are a useful aid for a competent and experienced rider. Too many folk use these as a short cut for correct schooling and they are no replacement for long and correct schooling which yes can be very boring and frankly time consuming. Hence people use shortcuts. I cringe at the videos of dressage trainers sale horses being ridden, many of which are going incorrectly.
burtie
Well-Known Member
I have used them on my horse ad-hoc when needed since he was backed at 4 I think they can be an incredibly useful gadget, more so than all others as they are so easy to adjust when riding to the required amount.
They are really quite simple and all you need to remember is that they should only be used to maintain outline, never to create it.
They are really quite simple and all you need to remember is that they should only be used to maintain outline, never to create it.
katiesdolphin
Well-Known Member
Diggerbeez, well said its not the drawreins it is the people using them that ruin them! I love draw reins and have found them a god sent at times! If used correctly your not forcing them into anything but riding them into the bridle and guiding them!
Rose Folly
Well-Known Member
Totally agree with Wagtail on p.1. I'd like to see them banned. IMO they're litle better than bearing reins in reverse (at least as used by many people hacking past my house) and bearing reins were banned 120 (?) years ago.
They may have a use if adjusted properly, used by people who REALLY know how to use them (and I don't because I wouldn't even have them in my tackroom) and under close supervision, but otherwise - big NO!
They may have a use if adjusted properly, used by people who REALLY know how to use them (and I don't because I wouldn't even have them in my tackroom) and under close supervision, but otherwise - big NO!
Zargon_91
Well-Known Member
Just to throw controversy to the wind, ive seen people jump horses in draw reins to improve technique. So long as they are used correctly, its a very good idea- it gets the horse engaging over the back and therefore snapping up in front. Same effect as rapping! but much kinder and longer lasting.