Meowy Catkin
Meow!
I find it quite heartbreaking.
Dreadful Handing at Arab Show
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I find it quite heartbreaking.
Ibblebibble
Well-Known Member
15. CRUELTY Excessive whipping, use of electric
shock devices or infliction of pain by any means
is forbidden in all parts of the showground, or
stable areas, at all times.
At the discretion of the judge horses that show
fear of their handlers may be asked to leave the
ring.
16. OUTSIDE ASSISTANCE Attempting to
influence the behaviour of exhibits in the ring is
forbidden.
Exhibits are not to be excessively stirred up.
Horses must remain calmly in the collecting ring
with a maximum of one handler/rider and one
groom until they enter the ring. No devices,
artificial gadgets or loud noises shall be used to
excite horses. This rule also applies to persons on
the outside of the ring or collecting ring. Exhibits
which are excessively excited may be asked to
leave the ring or collecting ring and be
disqualified from their class.
The very fact that the above points are needed on the Arab society website suggests that there is a problem with the way the horses are handled and the society is fully aware of it! damning evidence in itself without any youtube video.
I think by saying 'oh it's ok it's not the worse thing i've seen' is the exact reason why there are still outdated methods being practiced
Sometimes it's the little things that need addressing to have an effect on the bigger issues.
shock devices or infliction of pain by any means
is forbidden in all parts of the showground, or
stable areas, at all times.
At the discretion of the judge horses that show
fear of their handlers may be asked to leave the
ring.
16. OUTSIDE ASSISTANCE Attempting to
influence the behaviour of exhibits in the ring is
forbidden.
Exhibits are not to be excessively stirred up.
Horses must remain calmly in the collecting ring
with a maximum of one handler/rider and one
groom until they enter the ring. No devices,
artificial gadgets or loud noises shall be used to
excite horses. This rule also applies to persons on
the outside of the ring or collecting ring. Exhibits
which are excessively excited may be asked to
leave the ring or collecting ring and be
disqualified from their class.
The very fact that the above points are needed on the Arab society website suggests that there is a problem with the way the horses are handled and the society is fully aware of it! damning evidence in itself without any youtube video.
I think by saying 'oh it's ok it's not the worse thing i've seen' is the exact reason why there are still outdated methods being practiced
Sometimes it's the little things that need addressing to have an effect on the bigger issues.
Flame_
Well-Known Member
Well until the judges start giving out the prizes to arabs that stand there and trot around normally instead if to the ones wired up to boiling point it won't change. Its the same as the "fat horses in showing" thing. People are trying to give the judges what they want. It can only change when the judges start penalizing horses behaving ridiculously, especially because their handlers are training them to! I'm not a showing fan in general, but at least in most classes they don't reward wacky behavior with prizes. In many classes if horses and handlers behaved this way they'd be chucked out, not given points for displaying "spirit".
ThePony
Well-Known Member
God, what a sad video. Such stunning horses looking scared and stressed because of their idiot handlers.
They are in good condition, and that is good, but why should mental welfare be considered less important than physical welbeing? Such intelligent animals as horses should be well kept both physically and mentally. Saying worse abuse occurs does nothing to lessen the discusting behaviour shown here.
They are in good condition, and that is good, but why should mental welfare be considered less important than physical welbeing? Such intelligent animals as horses should be well kept both physically and mentally. Saying worse abuse occurs does nothing to lessen the discusting behaviour shown here.
quirky
Well-Known Member
I'm 100% with Amymay.
Jesstickle, I'm shocked at your stance on this. From your posts I thought you were an experienced horse woman who could see the cruelty meted out to these horses.
I have been in a class where a horse behaved like this without the goading of the handler and she was asked to leave as she was a danger to herself and others.
How come the judges are happy to judge horses when they are like this?
Is it just Arab judges?
Jesstickle, I'm shocked at your stance on this. From your posts I thought you were an experienced horse woman who could see the cruelty meted out to these horses.
I have been in a class where a horse behaved like this without the goading of the handler and she was asked to leave as she was a danger to herself and others.
How come the judges are happy to judge horses when they are like this?
Is it just Arab judges?
Crazydancer
Well-Known Member
Yes - it seems this is considered the norm for showing Arabs, along with wrapping the leadrope around the hand, and also the crowd shouting and clapping to get the horses more wound up.
As said above, only when the judges apply the letter of the law, and start marking down, or asking people to leave the ring, will this change. And as this seems to have become 'the standard' for showing, that isn't going to happen anytime soon unfortunately.
As an Arab lover, I hate this, it's sending out the wrong message about these beautiful horses, and also moving the breeding the wrong way IMO. 15 years ago a 15.2 Arab was a rarity, now there are many, and the bigger the better it seems. My boy's sire won at Windsor in the early 80's, he was 14.2 at home, (14.3 at a show
), and was the calmest, nicest natured horse I have ever met. That's what I fell in love with.......
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
I agree with you. The whole thing is rotten and we must not turn a blind eye.
ETA.
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Jesstickle
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry if I've surprised everyone. I can only speak as I find though and on my very limited experience of going to the shows and visiting people at home I have only met nice (albeit zany) people who think the world of their horses. I have also only met happy little horses who seem content with their lot. I even saw one of the trainers working a horse at the owners house. The filly (she was only 2 or 3) didn't seem overly bothered by the whip with the carrier bag being dangled over her head. I would have said something if I thought I was watching cruelty I assure you. Obviously other people have different experiences to me and I am all ears to hear about them but from what I have seen it would be hypocritical for me to come out and condemn everyone involved in showing arabs. Perhaps I should have said nothing at all. However, all of you who 'know' me well enough to be surprised know I can't keep my gob shut!
I don't enjoy the showing. It is loud and ridiculous, and, as so many people have said, gives the wrong impression of a lovely intelligent breed of horses. The only thing I ever really thought was that they most be fantastic horses to go out and be razzed around like that and to come back to their stables and be totally chilled. I know if you wound my two up like that you'd have a hell of a time persuading them back down.
I don't enjoy the showing. It is loud and ridiculous, and, as so many people have said, gives the wrong impression of a lovely intelligent breed of horses. The only thing I ever really thought was that they most be fantastic horses to go out and be razzed around like that and to come back to their stables and be totally chilled. I know if you wound my two up like that you'd have a hell of a time persuading them back down.
Lucyad
Well-Known Member
Absolutely shocking!
Paddy Irish
Well-Known Member
I have owned / loaned part breds and pure breds and only done local showing so i'm probably not qualified to comment but it seems to me that these top showers just want their animals to be viewed as nutty , wild , high spirited things , but anyone who's ever owned an arab will usually tell you that they are loyal , intelligent and loving - well mine have been. No wonder some riders wont touch them with a barge pole when their reputation is blown right out of proportion with this sort of handling - i'd be jumping backwards and trying to get away if i was being smacked about the head!
fburton
Well-Known Member
Jesstickle - your clarification is appreciated, I'm sure. I think what really startled and dismayed some people was your initial statement...
I for one was upset and disturbed watching that video - though obviously not as much as I would be watching, for instance, a bull being speared in a bull-fight or a human tragedy unfolding. All the same, it upset me enough to make me feel angry about these Arab showing practices. But maybe I am over-sensitive!
I for one was upset and disturbed watching that video - though obviously not as much as I would be watching, for instance, a bull being speared in a bull-fight or a human tragedy unfolding. All the same, it upset me enough to make me feel angry about these Arab showing practices. But maybe I am over-sensitive!
Andalusianlover
Well-Known Member
A few years ago I was invited to attend the Arab show held at hartpury as I was going through the process of buying a young horse being shown there.
To say I was horrified at the handlers was an understatement. At one point I pointed to this guy who was waving his long whip at the horses face and from side to side and said I was disgusted at what he was doing to his horse only to be told "he's the best handler in the country" The horse was terrified but apparently he was "just winding the horse up a bit" before it went into the ring so it "snorted and blowed" a bit more therefore putting on a more impressive show.
I love arabs but I would never buy one now that had been "show trained"!
To say I was horrified at the handlers was an understatement. At one point I pointed to this guy who was waving his long whip at the horses face and from side to side and said I was disgusted at what he was doing to his horse only to be told "he's the best handler in the country" The horse was terrified but apparently he was "just winding the horse up a bit" before it went into the ring so it "snorted and blowed" a bit more therefore putting on a more impressive show.
I love arabs but I would never buy one now that had been "show trained"!
Allover
Well-Known Member
I have not had a lot to do with Arab horses but what i do know is that they are one of the most intelligent, hard working, tough and giving little hosses that you will come across. In any of my dealings with them being "naughty" it is ALWAYS the handler that is the problem and not the horse. They have the ability to know and respond to good handling with incredible speed.
This video is just another example of how bad the showing world has become, IMO it would be no bad thing to get rid of showing any animal.
This video is just another example of how bad the showing world has become, IMO it would be no bad thing to get rid of showing any animal.
Dancing Queen
Well-Known Member
Don't know if someone has already posted this, apologies if so.
How is this acceptable - these horses are just waiting to be hit in the face.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW_kWUip7TQ&feature=player_embedded
I didnt watch the whole thing - i hate seeing animals frightened and abused. I do however recommend the clip is bought to the attention of the AHS and these judges/individuals are struck off and banned from keeping animals for life.
Oberon
Well-Known Member
It's all so un-necessary though.
Arabs LOVE to show off.
They'd 'perform' in an audience without any encouragement. (Mine has for vets while trotting up, for the physio and hell, just for fun!).
Arabs LOVE to show off.
They'd 'perform' in an audience without any encouragement. (Mine has for vets while trotting up, for the physio and hell, just for fun!).
Jesstickle
Well-Known Member
I still don't see anything there that REALLY upsets me. I stand by that statement. Compared to watching images of genocide or stories about violated children or even bull fighting there is nothing in that video to cause genuine alarm (to me at least). I do see worse every time I go to a local show and I do see worse on the news every day. Saying that doesn't mean I think that bad behaviour shouldn't be tackled, it just means that I don't like people being sensationalist about it and saying 'how awful', 'shocking', 'horrific' etc. Call me a pedant but I prefer to keep the language I use for genuine tragedies separate from the language I use for things that annoy me and could be tackled at some point but are not life threatening.
I know I can sound cold sometimes but one of the things which annoys me most on here is people saying how awful something is when clearly, whilst not ok, it is hardly the worst thing to happen in the world.
Rant over. Sorry all. I'll go away now
claireandnadia
Well-Known Member
I don't get it and don't really like what I am seeing either.
Spudlet
Well-Known Member
It's not great. It's not the worst abuse in the world, but it's not great.
TBH, I don't really like showing at all - it seems to me that often, rather than it being a case of 'I will show my horse, because it is pretty', it turns into 'I will MAKE my horse pretty by whatever means so I can win at shows', whether that involves feeding them until they're fat in order to hide those little conformational defects, or waving a stick at them until they're stressed as you like, or any of the rather unsavoury other practices that are darkly alluded to by some posters, for example to make sure the horse measures in or whatever.
TBH, I don't really like showing at all - it seems to me that often, rather than it being a case of 'I will show my horse, because it is pretty', it turns into 'I will MAKE my horse pretty by whatever means so I can win at shows', whether that involves feeding them until they're fat in order to hide those little conformational defects, or waving a stick at them until they're stressed as you like, or any of the rather unsavoury other practices that are darkly alluded to by some posters, for example to make sure the horse measures in or whatever.
little_critter
Well-Known Member
I looked to me as if the horses were on the whole behaving themselves until the handler either yanked them in the gob or waved a whip in it's face. I think at that point the horse is entitled to be a bit pissed off!
amandap
Well-Known Member
Hear, hear!
I may have different ideas of abuse to many but this abuse is condoned, accepted by judges and rewarded!
Imo this is shameful and any organization condoning this treatment of horses needs to be brought to account!This goes back to us humans seeing the disrespect and cruel treatment of many animals we can be exposed to as 'normal' and then accepting it.
Big rewards also have a huge ability to cloud the judgement of humans imo.
Mta. The horse at 123 ish although afraid (sadly) shows the beauty of the more 'natural' Arab. FREE and able to express itself without constraint.
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jaquelin
Well-Known Member
Obviously the object is to get the horses head up and show length of neck and arch, but a really lazy, stupid way to do it.
Please look at the "contrast" video posted on first page - an excellent lesson in how to show a horse to its best. Complete calmness and how easy for the judge to assess the horse in trot, beautiful, straight, consistent paces. The Aachen style of showing must drive judges crazy. No wonder the gray is the East Coast (US) Champion!
Please look at the "contrast" video posted on first page - an excellent lesson in how to show a horse to its best. Complete calmness and how easy for the judge to assess the horse in trot, beautiful, straight, consistent paces. The Aachen style of showing must drive judges crazy. No wonder the gray is the East Coast (US) Champion!
Kenzo
Well-Known Member
I think it's a crying shame they are shown like this (replied in the other thread) but I also found it interesting to learn why they do this, so it's a good thing that it's been brought to peoples attention.
They may all be well cared for 'condition wise' as they need to be turned out well to be shown in the first place, I can't see how you can love and care for this breed when they are been handled like this? it's just wrong on so many levels.
Can you imagine that in dog showing for example, lets frighten and then yank the poor dog around the neck with it's choker chain.
The face of horse is one the most sensetive parts of the body so I can't get my head round it at all.
They may all be well cared for 'condition wise' as they need to be turned out well to be shown in the first place, I can't see how you can love and care for this breed when they are been handled like this? it's just wrong on so many levels.
Can you imagine that in dog showing for example, lets frighten and then yank the poor dog around the neck with it's choker chain.
The face of horse is one the most sensetive parts of the body so I can't get my head round it at all.
Wagtail
Horse servant
I think you are missing the point. These handlers are doing it on purpose to get the 'arab stance' in the show ring. To show off their arab with its head aloft. It is despicable!
Hells Bells
Well-Known Member
How is this possibly ok?
When you step back and think of everything a horse does for its owner, lets us ride, groom, jumps, shows. Its an intellegent animal and it doesnt have to do these things, but it does because it loves and trusts us. To turn around and treat any animal like that is disgusting. Those poor ponies are doing what they are told out of fear not love.
The video makes me feel sick.
Yes there are other "worse" types of abuse, but it certainly does not make it ok. Just because murdering someone is worse then inflicting pain upon them, doesnt mean you should settle for. I completely agree with the points above.
When you step back and think of everything a horse does for its owner, lets us ride, groom, jumps, shows. Its an intellegent animal and it doesnt have to do these things, but it does because it loves and trusts us. To turn around and treat any animal like that is disgusting. Those poor ponies are doing what they are told out of fear not love.
The video makes me feel sick.
Yes there are other "worse" types of abuse, but it certainly does not make it ok. Just because murdering someone is worse then inflicting pain upon them, doesnt mean you should settle for. I completely agree with the points above.
tristar
Well-Known Member
what amazes me me is how they think all this makes the horse look better! i've given up trying to judge confo of modern arabs because with their heads stuck out like that it gives a false picture, and as for running like that they only show their ingnorance because no horse can trot out properly unless its head is lowered and its neck is relaxed, they evidently don't ride or they would know that from experience
i went to the world champonships in paris a few years ago, the noise was unbelievable, after that those horses are either total nervous wrecks or bombproof saints.
at another recent show someone showed a horse traditionally trotted out, steadily, head and neck free no tin cans or plastic bags and screeching voices, guess what, it was a pleasure to watch, the horse trotted out beautifully without breaking, it was the only one you could enjoy watching, and evaluate in peace and looked so much more professional!
it becoming all about those deformed heads yuk!
i went to the world champonships in paris a few years ago, the noise was unbelievable, after that those horses are either total nervous wrecks or bombproof saints.
at another recent show someone showed a horse traditionally trotted out, steadily, head and neck free no tin cans or plastic bags and screeching voices, guess what, it was a pleasure to watch, the horse trotted out beautifully without breaking, it was the only one you could enjoy watching, and evaluate in peace and looked so much more professional!
it becoming all about those deformed heads yuk!
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
I currently own two wonderful "well bred" Arabs, who are very different in size, shape and temperament, but the only time they look like the horses in that video is when they are afraid. My mare has been a fiesty creature in the past, and still has her moments, but she is also kind and brave. She lives in retirement now and when I go to visit she sees me approaching and leaves the herd nickering to come and meet me. My gelding is a sweet natured little man, like a fairy tale horse. He gets jealous when I give attention to my other horses and when his turn comes will turn his head to lay his cheek against mine when I scratch his neck. Arabs are such loyal and intelligent horses, these are the things I love about them and I would not put them in that show ring. That's it from me really.
BBH
Well-Known Member
I know nothing about Arabs but if I had gone to this show and seen this I would have found it truly shocking.
alison_oliver
Well-Known Member
I'm lucky enough to own a purebred.. and he is the most intelligent horse I have ever known..
Must be honest though had no idea this was how they were show trained..
Very upsetting..
Makes me wonder if some of my lads old issues are due to this, he does have good breeding and although he has an old tendon injury that rules him out of showing, he may well have been shown early on in life..
Oh lord the thought of someone treating him like that is horrible
Must be honest though had no idea this was how they were show trained..
Very upsetting..
Makes me wonder if some of my lads old issues are due to this, he does have good breeding and although he has an old tendon injury that rules him out of showing, he may well have been shown early on in life..
Oh lord the thought of someone treating him like that is horrible
dunkley
Well-Known Member
Exactly what I wanted to say! Aside from every comment on the whys and wherefores of the handling - I just cannot understand why anyone would think this shows a horse to it's best. Every other breed seems to be able to be judged on it's conformation, paces, manners and condition, without being wound up to exaggerate it's movement. Since I was a child, I have loved the grace, and arrogant,haughty and intelligent look of the Arab. This makes me sad, and does nothing for the breed's reputation.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Interesting comparison, and of course in reality there is no comparison between the examples you cite, and the video. However, just because it's not in the same league, does not mean it should be ignored.
Abuse takes many forms, some far, far worse than others. I'm not sure it's a competition though in comparing what is worse. No form of abuse should be ignored.
You don't come across as cold - merely disinterested and dispassionate.