Cortez
Tough but Fair
Yes, I agree that methods can be exceedingly harsh, but unfortunately all the Spanish horses I have had as "rescues" have come from either the UK or Ireland. I would not want to be a badly behaved horse in Spain.
Dream horse turned nightmare... help me!
- Thread starter chazza44
- Start date
imr
Well-Known Member
Firstly OP I am sorry about your accident and hope you recover quickly.
A 5yo is not usually an ideal first horse. Youngsters tend to try it on, don't understand and get unsettled etc. The behaviour described is pretty standard young horse stuff especially one who is in a new environment and able to test the boundaries of a new rider. I doubt very much there is anything especially wrong with the horse but it may not be a bad idea to get something different which has done more and is a bit older. The alternative is to persevere in which case I would recommend lungeing before you get on and getting a lot of help from a good trainer. I do understand why the yard won't exercise him, especially if they do not have anyone very experienced. You could try asking them to lunge him as that will keep him ticking over and try to find a trainer who will school him a couple of times a week and then help you.
A 5yo is not usually an ideal first horse. Youngsters tend to try it on, don't understand and get unsettled etc. The behaviour described is pretty standard young horse stuff especially one who is in a new environment and able to test the boundaries of a new rider. I doubt very much there is anything especially wrong with the horse but it may not be a bad idea to get something different which has done more and is a bit older. The alternative is to persevere in which case I would recommend lungeing before you get on and getting a lot of help from a good trainer. I do understand why the yard won't exercise him, especially if they do not have anyone very experienced. You could try asking them to lunge him as that will keep him ticking over and try to find a trainer who will school him a couple of times a week and then help you.
seoirse
Well-Known Member
Oh you poor thing, how upsettting, at any time, but especially when you have a shiny new horse and loads of hope for a fabulous future together.
I have to agree that it sounds like a normal panicky green horse moment, which very sadly resulted in a broken wrist for you. For the record, I managed to fall off a perfectly calm stationary horse and break my wrist once!
Not my finest moment!!!
It's such a shame you are going to be out of action for so long, and it's no surprise your confidence is shattered, it's often very delicate when you are building a bond with a new horse anyway! I got a new horse last November and we had a bit of a blip in January when he injured his neck and I got on without realising which resulted in major fireworks. My confidence was trashed and I couldn't ride him for ages due to his injury either and it took me ages to get my nerve back even when I was sure he was better so I ended up going for NLP (highly recommended - it does actually work!). We jumped 3 double clears back in August though so I got there in the end!
I really feel for you. Sorry I can't offer any constructive help, but allow yourself a bit of time if you can to think about it. Do you have much time to decide before the offer from the dealer to take him back expires? Remember despite this, the amazing horse you went to see and try is still in there too!
Good luck with whatever you decide and hope you have a speedy recovery. xx
I have to agree that it sounds like a normal panicky green horse moment, which very sadly resulted in a broken wrist for you. For the record, I managed to fall off a perfectly calm stationary horse and break my wrist once!
Not my finest moment!!!It's such a shame you are going to be out of action for so long, and it's no surprise your confidence is shattered, it's often very delicate when you are building a bond with a new horse anyway! I got a new horse last November and we had a bit of a blip in January when he injured his neck and I got on without realising which resulted in major fireworks. My confidence was trashed and I couldn't ride him for ages due to his injury either and it took me ages to get my nerve back even when I was sure he was better so I ended up going for NLP (highly recommended - it does actually work!). We jumped 3 double clears back in August though so I got there in the end!
I really feel for you. Sorry I can't offer any constructive help, but allow yourself a bit of time if you can to think about it. Do you have much time to decide before the offer from the dealer to take him back expires? Remember despite this, the amazing horse you went to see and try is still in there too!
Good luck with whatever you decide and hope you have a speedy recovery. xx
Milkmaid
Well-Known Member
I have had the pleasure of watching a top rider train his young horses in Portugal and they were in no way ridden in a collected manor & 'supported' He let them find their own balance in a relaxed non presured way and it was a complete joy to watch! We had the priviledge of being personally entertained by him, including visiting his Homestead (which was errrrrrrmazing as the family was practically royalty!) as he obviously batted for the other side and took a fancy to my OH!!
The horses he trained (and we rode) were an absolute pleasure, not sharp, not hot, but boy could they do the stuff if you asked correctly!! If you didn`t, they didn`t, simple! No dramatics or trying to get rid of you.
There were a few `quirky` ones that were definately more suitable to more experienced riders but on the whole they were mainly pretty sane & could definately cope with a 'wobble' or two!
I do agree that the better you ride, the more you will get out of them, but isn`t that true of every horse?
The horse in this picture was the most genuine, patient generous schoolmaster, even for a numpty UK rider like me
I soooooo fell in love and I could have brought him home for a cool 20K plus costs!Bear in mind that they tend to export the 'less perfect' and keep the best for themselves hence why I have not entered into 'Iberian' ownership. The ones I looked at over here tended to be either crap, a bit crazy or stupidly expensive
Tonks
Well-Known Member
I thought this was an interesting thread and must admit that I haven't read it all.
What a terrible shame that you have injured yourself but I do agree with the other comments, in that he is perhaps not the horse for you and you should send him back or find another home for him.....before you get really injured!!
However, I don't agree with those who state that Iberian horse need different training methods.
Of course, there are individual differences between horses which are dictated by breed, environment, historical baggage and ability of rider. Some horses can't tolerate hardly any pressure where others can tolerate a lot. Some are of a 'take flight' variety whereas others won't take flight and use other behaviours.
However, the training methods remain the same for ALL types of horses. That is, through the use of a training scale that methodically builds upon each stage of work. ALL species, even humans, seek to avoid pressure and the horse is no exception and this forms the basis of all work.
And yes, I have experience of Iberian, ISH's, TB's and warmbloods. For me, I wouldn't like to stereotype a single horse I've had or worked with as their individual differences have often taken precedence over their breed type. I think the only thing we can do is to state that the horse is from a cold blood, warm blood and hot blood origin and take it from there to see what emerges - some will be true to the stereotype and others not.
Good training/good riding is just that - regardless of the horse's behaviour - which by the way, is pretty limited as they are a predated species so therefore, will have a specific set of predictable behaviours, even though it doesn't appear predictable to us humans.
I think it's pretty safe to say that the original poster's horse is of the take flight variety! Although it's very difficult to comment without being there to fully know what happened. However, it's also pretty safe to say that the horse's legs were not under the control of the rider - which is the ultimate aim.
He could have taken flight for many reasons: a) overt leg pressure b) not releasing pressure at correct time c) escaping overt rein tension/pressure d) lack of control over shoulders....who knows. I do think it's best however, to find him another home.
Best of luck with your decision.
What a terrible shame that you have injured yourself but I do agree with the other comments, in that he is perhaps not the horse for you and you should send him back or find another home for him.....before you get really injured!!
However, I don't agree with those who state that Iberian horse need different training methods.
Of course, there are individual differences between horses which are dictated by breed, environment, historical baggage and ability of rider. Some horses can't tolerate hardly any pressure where others can tolerate a lot. Some are of a 'take flight' variety whereas others won't take flight and use other behaviours.
However, the training methods remain the same for ALL types of horses. That is, through the use of a training scale that methodically builds upon each stage of work. ALL species, even humans, seek to avoid pressure and the horse is no exception and this forms the basis of all work.
And yes, I have experience of Iberian, ISH's, TB's and warmbloods. For me, I wouldn't like to stereotype a single horse I've had or worked with as their individual differences have often taken precedence over their breed type. I think the only thing we can do is to state that the horse is from a cold blood, warm blood and hot blood origin and take it from there to see what emerges - some will be true to the stereotype and others not.
Good training/good riding is just that - regardless of the horse's behaviour - which by the way, is pretty limited as they are a predated species so therefore, will have a specific set of predictable behaviours, even though it doesn't appear predictable to us humans.
I think it's pretty safe to say that the original poster's horse is of the take flight variety! Although it's very difficult to comment without being there to fully know what happened. However, it's also pretty safe to say that the horse's legs were not under the control of the rider - which is the ultimate aim.
He could have taken flight for many reasons: a) overt leg pressure b) not releasing pressure at correct time c) escaping overt rein tension/pressure d) lack of control over shoulders....who knows. I do think it's best however, to find him another home.
Best of luck with your decision.
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noblesteed
Well-Known Member
OP so sorry to hear your story. How horrible for you.
I have been in a similar position, though when I bought my first horse at 30 after having ridden all my life and loaned, I did what I thought was the sensible thing and bought a 9 year-old who had been there and done it. I wasn't looking for an iberian and knew nothing about them, and ended up with a connemara/andy/luso. I had previously seen a beautiful section D who was a bargain but at 5 decided he was too young! (oh hindsight is a marvellous thing...) I was at a super competition yard with on-site instruction with great plans to do dressage with my beautiful grey boy.
Anyway I managed to survive a whole year before I got myself hospitalised due to the bucking, napping, spinning etc. I, like you, was a full-time professional (teacher/phase leader) and so breaking my arm was INCREDIBLY inconvenient, especially as it was my writing arm. Work had little sympathy as I was always limping or bruised due to horse-related injuries! It took 6 months (and physio etc) of struggling to care for him with a dodgy arm before I nervously got back on and started to rebuild my confidence from scratch.By this time he was 11 so mature enough to cope with me... This would have been impossible with an inexperienced youngster.
I still have my horse. I couldn't send him back as he was a private sale, and I would have lost so much money if I sold him, and I am too stubborn to admit defeat!!! I learned about iberians and treat him as one - He is turned out as much as possible, eats next to nothing, as hacked out as often as possible etc. We don't compete much as he gets so wound up at competitions it's not worth the hassle. He IS a fantastic hack, bombproof, fun to ride, school and jump, chilled out, affectionate and I love him to bits. It turns out he had been passed around and had a bad start in life so it wasn't all me. But it's been a long hard painful expensive struggle, and I WOULDN'T do it again. My back is damaged due to being thrown off, I have sciatica and nerve damage and I had a problems in pregnancy/birth - partly due to this.
OP I would send him back seeing as you have someone to take him. It's not worth it! Get yourself something you can have fun on NOW. Mine wasn't young and isn't full-blooded but he's still an 'unusual' horse and always will be. Take it as a lesson learned. Horses are meant to be fun, and it's hard enough managing an easy one with a full-time career.
\good luck x
I have been in a similar position, though when I bought my first horse at 30 after having ridden all my life and loaned, I did what I thought was the sensible thing and bought a 9 year-old who had been there and done it. I wasn't looking for an iberian and knew nothing about them, and ended up with a connemara/andy/luso. I had previously seen a beautiful section D who was a bargain but at 5 decided he was too young! (oh hindsight is a marvellous thing...) I was at a super competition yard with on-site instruction with great plans to do dressage with my beautiful grey boy.
Anyway I managed to survive a whole year before I got myself hospitalised due to the bucking, napping, spinning etc. I, like you, was a full-time professional (teacher/phase leader) and so breaking my arm was INCREDIBLY inconvenient, especially as it was my writing arm. Work had little sympathy as I was always limping or bruised due to horse-related injuries! It took 6 months (and physio etc) of struggling to care for him with a dodgy arm before I nervously got back on and started to rebuild my confidence from scratch.By this time he was 11 so mature enough to cope with me... This would have been impossible with an inexperienced youngster.
I still have my horse. I couldn't send him back as he was a private sale, and I would have lost so much money if I sold him, and I am too stubborn to admit defeat!!! I learned about iberians and treat him as one - He is turned out as much as possible, eats next to nothing, as hacked out as often as possible etc. We don't compete much as he gets so wound up at competitions it's not worth the hassle. He IS a fantastic hack, bombproof, fun to ride, school and jump, chilled out, affectionate and I love him to bits. It turns out he had been passed around and had a bad start in life so it wasn't all me. But it's been a long hard painful expensive struggle, and I WOULDN'T do it again. My back is damaged due to being thrown off, I have sciatica and nerve damage and I had a problems in pregnancy/birth - partly due to this.
OP I would send him back seeing as you have someone to take him. It's not worth it! Get yourself something you can have fun on NOW. Mine wasn't young and isn't full-blooded but he's still an 'unusual' horse and always will be. Take it as a lesson learned. Horses are meant to be fun, and it's hard enough managing an easy one with a full-time career.
\good luck x
Hedwards
Well-Known Member
I really am amazed so many people are suggesting to send him back... after such a short period of time... the OP had been getting on fine with him on her previous sessions, and then on one occasion he chucked her...
yes he's a PRE, yes they can be 'different' to other breeds of horse, but equally they can be perfectly good for novice riders. (and yes, I have enough of experience with PRE's to know this...)
OP - please have a read up on ulcers, and just see if he exhibits any of the other symptoms... however if he was feeling lazy and this reaction was out of character it really could be ulcers - particularly if you were applying your leg when he reacted. What diet is he on, does he get turned out? I assume he's had a bit of stress with a new home etc.
yes he's a PRE, yes they can be 'different' to other breeds of horse, but equally they can be perfectly good for novice riders. (and yes, I have enough of experience with PRE's to know this...)
OP - please have a read up on ulcers, and just see if he exhibits any of the other symptoms... however if he was feeling lazy and this reaction was out of character it really could be ulcers - particularly if you were applying your leg when he reacted. What diet is he on, does he get turned out? I assume he's had a bit of stress with a new home etc.
Tonks
Well-Known Member
Physical or medical problems tend to present themselves in all environments. That is, I would find it unusual that your horse was well behaved in a certain environment and then not in another.
This type of pattern suggests a behavioural rather than physical problem. Physical problems tend to present themselves all the time or at least get worse as the physical demands placed upon the horse increase.
Of course, you should assess whether he has a physical problem. But, I don't think he would be perfectly behaved with previous owners (if they are genuine) or perfectly behaved when you tried him out if he had a physical problem and you may spend thousands and still have a 'badly' behaved horse.
Unfortunately, this type of scenario is all too common.....perfect horse is bought and taken home and turns into Mr Hdye - due to less experienced owner.
This type of pattern suggests a behavioural rather than physical problem. Physical problems tend to present themselves all the time or at least get worse as the physical demands placed upon the horse increase.
Of course, you should assess whether he has a physical problem. But, I don't think he would be perfectly behaved with previous owners (if they are genuine) or perfectly behaved when you tried him out if he had a physical problem and you may spend thousands and still have a 'badly' behaved horse.
Unfortunately, this type of scenario is all too common.....perfect horse is bought and taken home and turns into Mr Hdye - due to less experienced owner.
Hedwards
Well-Known Member
Agreed, unless the pysical/medical problem has arisen from the change in envrionment... even down to something as simple as an unsuitable diet...
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I totally agree with this the horses breed is irrelevant in this story OP needs horse that will fit her lifestyle at the moment and that's not a horse who needs to be done six days a week or is complicated which this horse may or may not be, while the option of return is there I feel it would be wise for her to take it.
LouiseG
Well-Known Member
I have a 5 year old who everything I could ever want in a horse, however, the first time I asked for canter after he arrived with me he bronked around the school the second I asked for canter. It really knocked my confidence and it took a while to build it back up again. The reason he did it was because he was a baby and completely overwhelmed, nervous and excited by his surroundings, change of routine, didn't know me at all and I simply asked too much and he got himself in a panic! What I should have done was taken it slowly, walking, trotting, hacking, enjoying him and not expecting schooling sessions so quickly, there is plenty of time for that. I should have let him settle in, which in the end took us months to start making improvements and trust each other.
You say he is your dream horse? What has changed? It is really unfortunate that you have been injured so badly, however had you not been so badly injured you probably would have got straight back on? He is 5 and still has a lot for growing up to do and they all have their moments no matter what age they are, but in my opinion, 5 is the worst age and he will test you! In my opinion he has reacted in a way because he was scared or excited or worried, not because he is a "nightmare".
I think if you send him back you will be giving up. Even a "bombproof" been there and done it is perfectly capable of having an over excited moment through change of routine, feed, new rider etc etc. So I personally wouldn't write him off after 1 incident!
You say he is your dream horse? What has changed? It is really unfortunate that you have been injured so badly, however had you not been so badly injured you probably would have got straight back on? He is 5 and still has a lot for growing up to do and they all have their moments no matter what age they are, but in my opinion, 5 is the worst age and he will test you! In my opinion he has reacted in a way because he was scared or excited or worried, not because he is a "nightmare".
I think if you send him back you will be giving up. Even a "bombproof" been there and done it is perfectly capable of having an over excited moment through change of routine, feed, new rider etc etc. So I personally wouldn't write him off after 1 incident!
Firewell
Well-Known Member
I'm afraid I am going to have to disagree with the above poster.
I think you should give him back to the dealer.
I bought a 4 yr old ex-racehorse and granted I am more experienced than you in terms of having had my own horses since I was a child but I am not the best or bravest rider by far. He has never bronched me off. Ever. And iv'e had him for 3 years now. Yes he has had his moments, of course but never that bad.
Look at this way..
You have a demanding job
You now cannot ride untill the new year
You are relying on a yard that are unwilling to ride your horse
You have a 5yr old intelligent horse that needs regular handling and riding every day
Your 5 yr old horse needs someone experienced and who won't be put off by a bucking fit.
This is only the start of it... trust me young horses take months and months and months of training to become fully established. Bringing on a youngster (especially a sharp one and this one does sound sharp!!) is a lot different than riding school horses 3/4 times a week.
I just don't think however lovely he is, he is not the right horse for your situation.
I would send him back, get better and get an older, more experienced horse who doesn't need riding every day, one that your yard are happy to help with and one which won't buck you off when you first ride it.
You do sound sensible so hopefully you will come to the right decision.
I think you should give him back to the dealer.
I bought a 4 yr old ex-racehorse and granted I am more experienced than you in terms of having had my own horses since I was a child but I am not the best or bravest rider by far. He has never bronched me off. Ever. And iv'e had him for 3 years now. Yes he has had his moments, of course but never that bad.
Look at this way..
You have a demanding job
You now cannot ride untill the new year
You are relying on a yard that are unwilling to ride your horse
You have a 5yr old intelligent horse that needs regular handling and riding every day
Your 5 yr old horse needs someone experienced and who won't be put off by a bucking fit.
This is only the start of it... trust me young horses take months and months and months of training to become fully established. Bringing on a youngster (especially a sharp one and this one does sound sharp!!) is a lot different than riding school horses 3/4 times a week.
I just don't think however lovely he is, he is not the right horse for your situation.
I would send him back, get better and get an older, more experienced horse who doesn't need riding every day, one that your yard are happy to help with and one which won't buck you off when you first ride it.
You do sound sensible so hopefully you will come to the right decision.
Honey08
Waffled a lot!
Normally I would be agreeing with you, but the issue is she is injured and won't be able to get back on for ten weeks, during which time her nerves will probably build. At the moment there is nobody else to ride it and she is having doubts about whether this is the right horse...
If she were able to get back on tomorrow and get help, I would agree that working on the problem is the way forward. As this isn't possible, and there is an option to send him back, I would do that..
9tails
Well-Known Member
I'm not quite sure what this horse did that has turned him from a dream into a nightmare. You fell off and unfortunately hurt yourself, this could happen to all of us.
The fact that you're thinking you should send back is proof that he isn't your dream horse but now a rather big problem. I'm with those that say send back and get an older FAR more established horse. Even the naughtiest riding school horses aren't a match in athleticism for a hot youngster.
The fact that you're thinking you should send back is proof that he isn't your dream horse but now a rather big problem. I'm with those that say send back and get an older FAR more established horse. Even the naughtiest riding school horses aren't a match in athleticism for a hot youngster.
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Twinkley Lights
Well-Known Member
Dear OP how simply awful for you and at a time when you were meant to be in a new horsey love fest Take care chin up. It may be the breed or it may be a young unbalanced horse but you only have so many limbs and have to feel safe and able to work to support your life and horses.
I was recently over horsed myself. He is wonderful but simply not for me. He has been reschooled by professionals to be sold on (my dealer was a S*** unlike yours) and is simply fantastic now. It is no shame to get to this point just better for him and for me and the reschooling was my gift to him for his future. Personally unless you have deep pockets for a reschooling / training livery whilst you are out of action I would return him due to your circumstances while the dealer will take him back and start fresh next year. All the best hun big hug ((((( hug ))))))
Take care chin up. It may be the breed or it may be a young unbalanced horse but you only have so many limbs and have to feel safe and able to work to support your life and horses.I was recently over horsed myself. He is wonderful but simply not for me. He has been reschooled by professionals to be sold on (my dealer was a S*** unlike yours) and is simply fantastic now. It is no shame to get to this point just better for him and for me and the reschooling was my gift to him for his future. Personally unless you have deep pockets for a reschooling / training livery whilst you are out of action I would return him due to your circumstances while the dealer will take him back and start fresh next year. All the best hun big hug ((((( hug ))))))
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Of course it could but I think OP has realised a young horse in her situation might not be the dream she thought it was if there was a good competent rider at the yard to work the horse five or six times a week until OP was Back on the road that would be one thing but there isn't and she has the option of return at the moment .
9tails
Well-Known Member
Don't worry, Goldenstar, I went back and read the entire thread and now see that sending back really is the best option for both of them.
Milkmaid
Well-Known Member
Shysmum
Well-Known Member
I've read this thread with great interest, and have learnt a lot from it.
OP i have nothing to add other than to send you ((((((((((HUGS)))))))))). i'm sorry this has happened, and hope that whatever you decide things work out for you.
If it's any consolation, i broke Shy myself, and he had frequent bucking fits once under saddle (well I didn't have a saddle, we did it bareback) - I came off out the side door A LOT (unconscious once) - and he is a 14.2 coblet. We have come a long way since those days. Thank God !!
Good luck with this x
OP i have nothing to add other than to send you ((((((((((HUGS)))))))))). i'm sorry this has happened, and hope that whatever you decide things work out for you.
If it's any consolation, i broke Shy myself, and he had frequent bucking fits once under saddle (well I didn't have a saddle, we did it bareback) - I came off out the side door A LOT (unconscious once) - and he is a 14.2 coblet. We have come a long way since those days. Thank God !!
Good luck with this x
Twinkley Lights
Well-Known Member
How lovely, that made me smile
Thanks. I saw him today and he looked a million dollars and went so well just filled up with pride for him.
FfionWinnie
Well-Known Member
I would really like to see the video before I comment. I have read the whole thread and think seeing it would be the most important thing to forming an opinion. Pm me if you like OP
I have just bought a 4yr old and have had moments in the first few weeks of thinking what have I done, so you have my sympathies!
I have just bought a 4yr old and have had moments in the first few weeks of thinking what have I done, so you have my sympathies!
Alter ego
Active Member
REALLY?
It's too much to ask a horse to walk, trot and canter nicely around the arena in the first week? Obviously the level, confidence, quality that I'm looking for might be compromised, but I would expect to accomplish this.
If I couldn't get that on the first day I'd be disappointed and worried about our future together