ester
Not slacking multitasking
I think your comments to PS has already rather spoilt any educated debate that was occurring between other posters.
dressage...behind the vertical
- Thread starter kate2323
- Start date
I think your comments to PS has already rather spoilt any educated debate that was occurring between other posters.
_GG_
Well-Known Member
Yes and yes.
And kate2323, I understand you are a classicist, but to adhere to any method to the point of discounting any other possibilities is detrimental to the training of any horse. BTV is not being condoned...rather it is being understood as something that is not actually always wrong or bad.
Also, as a classicist you must know that the work of some of the "masters" leaves a lot to be desired and some arguable far worse than occasionally allowing a horse BTV.
That said, I agree with the basic point that it's not something that anyone should work towards...but it is, without doubt not without its place in the kind and sympathetic training of the horse.
JFTDWS
+++ Out of Cheese Error +++
Look you, I'm a drama queen and a show off. Give me the attention I deserve!
(GG's agreeing with stuff I say - this is high praise indeed!)
kate2323
Well-Known Member
oh please ...i don't even know Ps or what he or she does..... I was just reacting to her comment to me! this has now ruined your debate? really???
slumdog
Well-Known Member
Couldn't you say the same about PS? Bit ironic don't you think.
HufflyPuffly
Well-Known Member
Ok well this thread has taken an odd turn and I was all ready for posting some terrible btv pics of us to show a moment in time...
*wanders off sulking at the random troll*
I mean how can anyone have too much bling?!?
x x
*wanders off sulking at the random troll*
I mean how can anyone have too much bling?!?
x x
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Because you made the tone of the thread very personal and attacking- about a comment that wasn't even made 'to you' as I said, just a correct observation of the internet.
and yes agree, slumdog, funny how it is ok for one but not the other...
ester
Not slacking multitasking
JFTDWS
+++ Out of Cheese Error +++
"Too much bling"
Definition: when bling causes chafing between the blinged horse's legs in trot...
kate2323
Well-Known Member
do you not think we all need to get back to the actual point of my initial debate and debate why SO many horses from prelim upwards are ridden with heads pulled in so they are obviously btv? This is incorrect but continues to seen as the norm ...
look at any h and h and bd pix and you will see ( interestingly Jane Kidd who I think is wonderful points out a horse in btv in her article on self carriage) .... debate this please and please stop getting so personal ...
look at any h and h and bd pix and you will see ( interestingly Jane Kidd who I think is wonderful points out a horse in btv in her article on self carriage) .... debate this please and please stop getting so personal ...
ester
Not slacking multitasking
which leaves the wider beasts at a bling advantage 
Now I understand why highlands 
Now I understand why highlands JFTDWS
+++ Out of Cheese Error +++
You can't tell me what to do... You're not my mother!
JFTDWS
+++ Out of Cheese Error +++
which leaves the wider beasts at a bling advantage
More breadth to bling too. Looks amazeballs in his cloak of many crystals, I can tell you!
kate2323
Well-Known Member
"Because you made the tone of the thread very personal and attacking- about a comment that wasn't even made 'to you' as I said, just a correct observation of the internet."
really ? I dont think so....It is not in my nature to be " very personal and attacking" This is not language I like so please stop making this debate into something it is not ester....
really ? I dont think so....It is not in my nature to be " very personal and attacking" This is not language I like so please stop making this debate into something it is not ester....
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Thread control.... ermmm... doesn't work like that usually...
Many have also said isn't the norm and they don't see all the hundreds of horses you see doing it in a detrimental manner/pinned in by their riders.
Many have also said isn't the norm and they don't see all the hundreds of horses you see doing it in a detrimental manner/pinned in by their riders.
HufflyPuffly
Well-Known Member
Well obviously you can only post them if they come complete with sparkles
Hmm not sure a patent noseband and blingy browband will be quite enough, sigh, no one will get to see our rubbishness now!
Ah I thought it was when it blinded the judge rendering them incapable of scoring you tens on bling'ness alone, regardless of where the horses head is positioned?
x x
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Wheels
Well-Known Member
This is a disgusting comment. There is a lot of bling yes.... But knowledge outweighs even that.
I am trying to follow a classical path too (yet to find a better term as I don't think anyone's truly defined classical yet) but you are giving the rest of us a bad name. If you cannot be nice then just be quiet.
I'm all for debate, I don't like BTV either and certainly wouldnt ask my horse to go there and immediately ask him for something different if he puts himself there but I will not discount or try to discredit other riders, especially ones who have done so well as ms sparkle
_GG_
Well-Known Member
I'm happy to debate and as I have said previously, you are assuming that the horses "are being pulled" behind the vertical. This is no doubt true for some, but by no means all and yes judges do mark it down, but as explained previously, no one thing can be marked so low, often enough to create low marks where the rest of the work is good. A BTV horse is not always a horse going badly.
Casey76
Well-Known Member
This is my mare at the beginning not long after I bought her...
For as many moments we had like this:
We had 3x as many like:
and
and
Having said that... I prefer the one where she is slightly btw than this one:
Where the head is more correct, but she isn't working from behind properly.
For as many moments we had like this:
We had 3x as many like:
and
and
Having said that... I prefer the one where she is slightly btw than this one:
Where the head is more correct, but she isn't working from behind properly.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Arrrr passive aggressive now.
I don't see anyone on the defensive these things are about perception there's a lot of people who post on here very confident and happy in their training and who enjoy a good debate.
I could enter Into debate about how I worry about people training horses who are fixated on the position of the horses head to the exclusion of other things that matter far more but I will refrain .
And there are too many people who don't understand how to develop horses I don't see how that can possibly be seen to a controversial thing to say or a personal attack except by the highly sensitive .
charlie76
Well-Known Member
I have plenty of pictures of my horse btv during his training, however, most, not all of the time, its just a phase that happens when learning new movements. I would much prefer a horse slightly btv and ' through' than one out to a contact with a stuff back and neck.
I had many many trainers tell me I needed to get my horse, who is naturally short on the neck , up and out. I did this to the detriment of his training as he just became stiff and tight. Now I dontbworry about him being a bit deep and btv anymore as long as he is connected, using BKS back and hind legs and allowing me to ride him from leg to hand. He then comes up and out Toma soft contact and back through transitions and general lateral work, collection and extension.
The second he stiffens and tense we return to what you would prob refer to as btv, where as I call it soft, deep and round.
I had many many trainers tell me I needed to get my horse, who is naturally short on the neck , up and out. I did this to the detriment of his training as he just became stiff and tight. Now I dontbworry about him being a bit deep and btv anymore as long as he is connected, using BKS back and hind legs and allowing me to ride him from leg to hand. He then comes up and out Toma soft contact and back through transitions and general lateral work, collection and extension.
The second he stiffens and tense we return to what you would prob refer to as btv, where as I call it soft, deep and round.
Kit-kat
Member
I've just found this debate and have followed all the threads..very interesting..
does seem though that you put your head in the firing line ( kate2323 ) to mention something that happens alot and the people that obviously disagree love to shout you down!
some of the language..."disgusting" " troll " ..well you h and h forum people should be ashamed of yourselves....
does seem though that you put your head in the firing line ( kate2323 ) to mention something that happens alot and the people that obviously disagree love to shout you down!
some of the language..."disgusting" " troll " ..well you h and h forum people should be ashamed of yourselves....
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
No I don't think we need to get back to the debate.
JFTDWS
+++ Out of Cheese Error +++
BTV - shoot me now!
Where as Daemon prefers to:
put your head right in
out
shake it all about
Where as Daemon prefers to:
put your head right in
out
shake it all about
Kit-kat
Member
you need to raise your hands alot higher..sit up straight and have a better self carriage then your horse might have a chance to sit on his backside, and raise his head....
_GG_
Well-Known Member
Completely agree...a horse that it taking the bit forward in an open contact that isn't working correctly through the back and hind is not a horse working in a correct contact anyway! It may look like it if you are fixated on head position...but the head alone says little about the quality of work.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Do you know that for sure ?
charlie76
Well-Known Member
From this ( in relation to my post above)
To this
With plenty of this in between!
Hope it works.
To this
With plenty of this in between!
Hope it works.
Last edited:
Kit-kat
Member
what are you trying to say?