Dressage - Canter tips

[Batgirl]

Hi all,

Looking for ideas to throw into the pot. Bit of background - big horse (in signature) 'slow' moving, long backed. Struggled with canter as a baby (found out after I bought him). Working at elementary scoring consistent 60% (1% or 2% either side). Basic problem is his propensity for breaking so we don't have consistent engagement in the canter, lazy hind leg. This is the safe steady kind of horse that you could let a novice gallop on the beach on (despite being 17"2) as he needs to be asked for effort

Now all physical problems have been excluded (saddle, back, legs, feet) and I have a lovely instructor who is working with me on this but I always like to throw any and all ideas into the pot! One problem we have come across is that he takes any excuse from me (unbal, missed rhythm) to break so a little un-genuine in that regard.

Any thoughts welcome!

 

[milliepops]

First thought would be - does he go for himself in the other paces? Is it only the canter that you have this backwards tendency or is it just more manageable in the walk/trot?

Next thoughts are likely to revolve around transitions!

 

[Batgirl]

First thought would be - does he go for himself in the other paces? Is it only the canter that you have this backwards tendency or is it just more manageable in the walk/trot?

Next thoughts are likely to revolve around transitions!

Nicely forward in other paces, on the aids (even into canter) just lack of maintenance in the canter

I am a grafter - if the solution is to spend hours doing the same thing I will do it!

 

[SEL]

Different build of horse (part draft) but same issue. My instructor has been up on mine and I'm now following the 'don't worry where her head is, just get her going' approach.

After just a few weeks of this she's now balancing herself a lot better. I've had a horse go over on me in the school so cantering round on a loose rein with an unbalanced horse required brave pants.

Lots & lots of transitions too so her bottom is pushing her along rather than her shoulders pulling. Yesterday she was actually taking up the contact which was nice. My instructor is back up on her today so I'm expecting an appaloosa Valegro by tomorrow ☺

 

[ihatework]

How old is he and what can he maintain?

 

[Batgirl]

How old is he and what can he maintain?

He is 13 and I'm not sure what you mean by the second part? (do you mean what I replied to milliepops?)

 

[Batgirl]

Different build of horse (part draft) but same issue. My instructor has been up on mine and I'm now following the 'don't worry where her head is, just get her going' approach.

After just a few weeks of this she's now balancing herself a lot better. I've had a horse go over on me in the school so cantering round on a loose rein with an unbalanced horse required brave pants.

Lots & lots of transitions too so her bottom is pushing her along rather than her shoulders pulling. Yesterday she was actually taking up the contact which was nice. My instructor is back up on her today so I'm expecting an appaloosa Valegro by tomorrow ☺

Hmm, he will happily canter round balanced on a loose rein but still have to 'keep asking' if you know what I mean?

Good point about head and trans.

 

[Wheels]

Hi all,


Now all physical problems have been excluded (saddle, back, legs, feet) and I have a lovely instructor who is working with me on this but I always like to throw any and all ideas into the pot! One problem we have come across is that he takes any excuse from me (unbal, missed rhythm) to break so a little un-genuine in that regard.

Any thoughts welcome!

What physical checks have been done?

 

[Batgirl]

What physical checks have been done?

Min every 6 months Physiotherapist work up, Vet lameness work up, Saddle check min every 6 months, Teeth every 9 months (more frequent than advised as I am paranoid)

 

[Batgirl]

Sorry, rereading that it looks like lameness work up regularly - recent lameness work up to check general physical wellness.

 

[milliepops]

no, makes sense. Some horses are just a bit laid back about their work and especially if they are a bit big and unbalanced it's the perfect storm.

I think I'd start by riding lots of transitions, probably between trot and canter, to try and energise those lazy hind legs a bit in the first instance. I'd be more inclined to keep him together rather than let him out on a very long rein, given that he is big and knows enough to do it reasonably well. From what you've said I would imagine that he is breaking because he lacks balance, strength and activity so letting him get too long at this stage could be counterproductive.

If he drops to trot when you haven't asked, then I would swiftly correct him, no need to be rough obv but he must learn that he needs to keep going until you say otherwise, so either a sharper touch with the leg, a tap with the whip - whatever is most appropriate, I think they do need to become accountable for these kinds of things eventually and making that kind of mistake is an ideal way to learn. Timing is everything though - can you be quick enough to catch it and pop back into canter immediately so he will join the dots in his brain?

 

[Wheels]

Honestly it would worry me that a horse schooled to elementary did not want to hold the canter. I would be concerned there was something physical going on

One of mine did not show lameness during lameness exam (although we didn't block) but there were lots of findings on the bonescan

 

[Batgirl]

Honestly it would worry me that a horse schooled to elementary did not want to hold the canter. I would be concerned there was something physical going on

One of mine did not show lameness during lameness exam (although we didn't block) but there were lots of findings on the bonescan

Fair point, though by all accounts he has never wanted to. I am wondering if it is a conformation thing as he has only ever just tracked up in all paces and is long backed with short leges. What sort of scan was it, might have a chat with the vet?

 

[Batgirl]

no, makes sense. Some horses are just a bit laid back about their work and especially if they are a bit big and unbalanced it's the perfect storm.

I think I'd start by riding lots of transitions, probably between trot and canter, to try and energise those lazy hind legs a bit in the first instance. I'd be more inclined to keep him together rather than let him out on a very long rein, given that he is big and knows enough to do it reasonably well. From what you've said I would imagine that he is breaking because he lacks balance, strength and activity so letting him get too long at this stage could be counterproductive.

If he drops to trot when you haven't asked, then I would swiftly correct him, no need to be rough obv but he must learn that he needs to keep going until you say otherwise, so either a sharper touch with the leg, a tap with the whip - whatever is most appropriate, I think they do need to become accountable for these kinds of things eventually and making that kind of mistake is an ideal way to learn. Timing is everything though - can you be quick enough to catch it and pop back into canter immediately so he will join the dots in his brain?

Thanks, that makes sense, I like the joining the dots!

 

[Ambers Echo]

I've got the same issue with mine. She's lazy behind and very down hill. Given the choice she'll just drag her back end behind her whereas she needs to step under herself more. Her canter is flat and fast. She just leans forward and runs. If you ask her to collect at all she breaks as she lacks strength and balance in the canter. She needs to shift her weight back onto her hocks and power from behind. Under the instruction of my RI we are doing LOADS of canter transitions. Also lots of squares & diamonds, ie she canters in a straight line then has to pivot using her hind end then straight again. This really engages her hocks. When she breaks I re-balance and go again once her trot is uphill and balanced rather than kick her on/tap her as I feel the breaking is genuine. May not be in yours, but if I kick on when she breaks she'll just run on and I want her balanced. We are also doing LOADS of raised canter poles which again makes her engage her hocks. Good luck!

 

[milliepops]

Fair point, though by all accounts he has never wanted to. I am wondering if it is a conformation thing as he has only ever just tracked up in all paces and is long backed with short leges.

Just had another thought as you mentioned his conformation. I've been helping a friend with her pony and he is built like a stretch limo with a long back and short legs - he also finds it hard to track up, and especially to engage in the canter. I've ridden him for her a few times lately and felt he really needed to come up through the withers and round his back more, and then when he did, he made a rounder canter stride with more jump. I rode him in quite a round frame which helped him as his neck was like a counter balance: neck softly down made the back come up. I also rode him in shoulder fore on a circle to help him to step under with the inside hind , and stop the outside shoulder popping out. He found that difficult but it was productive.

Thought I'd mention it as another idea.

 

[Batgirl]

Just had another thought as you mentioned his conformation. I've been helping a friend with her pony and he is built like a stretch limo with a long back and short legs - he also finds it hard to track up, and especially to engage in the canter. I've ridden him for her a few times lately and felt he really needed to come up through the withers and round his back more, and then when he did, he made a rounder canter stride with more jump. I rode him in quite a round frame which helped him as his neck was like a counter balance: neck softly down made the back come up. I also rode him in shoulder fore on a circle to help him to step under with the inside hind , and stop the outside shoulder popping out. He found that difficult but it was productive.

Thought I'd mention it as another idea.

Thank you, that does sound quite pertinent and I get moments of niceness and they are always when he is more 'up' under me.

 

[Batgirl]

I've got the same issue with mine. She's lazy behind and very down hill. Given the choice she'll just drag her back end behind her whereas she needs to step under herself more. Her canter is flat and fast. She just leans forward and runs. If you ask her to collect at all she breaks as she lacks strength and balance in the canter. She needs to shift her weight back onto her hocks and power from behind. Under the instruction of my RI we are doing LOADS of canter transitions. Also lots of squares & diamonds, ie she canters in a straight line then has to pivot using her hind end then straight again. This really engages her hocks. When she breaks I re-balance and go again once her trot is uphill and balanced rather than kick her on/tap her as I feel the breaking is genuine. May not be in yours, but if I kick on when she breaks she'll just run on and I want her balanced. We are also doing LOADS of raised canter poles which again makes her engage her hocks. Good luck!

thank you

 

[Wheels]

Fair point, though by all accounts he has never wanted to. I am wondering if it is a conformation thing as he has only ever just tracked up in all paces and is long backed with short leges. What sort of scan was it, might have a chat with the vet?

It was a full body scintigraphy (bonescan) - the vet suspected he had kissing spines from xrays he took but when we scanned there was nothing to suggest changes in his back but all 4 limbs showed bone remodelling in at least one joint.

If this is an on going problem then it may well be a schooling issue but I would be concerned personally.

You could try some of the schooling suggestions on this thread for a couple of weeks or a month and if no improvement or going backwards then might be time to investigate further.

 

[Batgirl]

It was a full body scintigraphy (bonescan) - the vet suspected he had kissing spines from xrays he took but when we scanned there was nothing to suggest changes in his back but all 4 limbs showed bone remodelling in at least one joint.

If this is an on going problem then it may well be a schooling issue but I would be concerned personally.

You could try some of the schooling suggestions on this thread for a couple of weeks or a month and if no improvement or going backwards then might be time to investigate further.

Good plan