Dressage despair!

[McFluff]

He’s lovely and you look good together.
I have a very similar issue with mine, and he’s 13!
This last year he’s been so much better.
Getting stronger, or more insistent, just was not working. A stronger and more confident rider didn’t work (actually set us back). A yard move (unrelated) gave me the opportunity/nudge to approach things differently.
I looked at trigger stacking and realised that could explain things. He sort of looks like he‘s coping until suddenly he isn’t. So for shows he found the travel stressful, then the warm up stressful, but handled both fine, but by the time we get to the test, his stress bucket is full, and the judges box is genuinely scary. So I’ve really worked on reducing his stress generally (which is a bit challenging when he doesn’t really show the build up!). Allowing lots of time (we get to shows early and have a good half hour just munching his net), lots of practice (different venues, clinics, hacking), and celebrate all the wee improvements (lots of praise seems to work for him).
Very much on a journey with this, but he is getting better. We can get round an arena without spooking at the judges box, we are taking some of the fab work from warm-up into the arena, we sometimes get a good score.
I also regularly check for anything that could cause pain - so regular physio, saddle check, dentist, etc (as background pain can fill the stress bucket too).
Good luck with him, hope you find tools that work for you.

 

[Marigold4]

Yes. Mine is also scared. The best thing to do is to ignore it. If I get annoyed at him or try and ride him through it then it just gets worse. He is a big chunk and shouldn’t be as quick as he is.

Mine too. THere is a lady where I hire an indoor who wants me to kick and thump him through it but as far as I can see it will only make him worse and I would hate to do that. It's not the kind of relationship I want with my horse

 

[Jambarissa]

Just keep going, you'll get there.

He is lovely and you look a nice pair.

 

[Marigold4]

He’s lovely and you look good together.
I have a very similar issue with mine, and he’s 13!
This last year he’s been so much better.
Getting stronger, or more insistent, just was not working. A stronger and more confident rider didn’t work (actually set us back). A yard move (unrelated) gave me the opportunity/nudge to approach things differently.
I looked at trigger stacking and realised that could explain things. He sort of looks like he‘s coping until suddenly he isn’t. So for shows he found the travel stressful, then the warm up stressful, but handled both fine, but by the time we get to the test, his stress bucket is full, and the judges box is genuinely scary. So I’ve really worked on reducing his stress generally (which is a bit challenging when he doesn’t really show the build up!). Allowing lots of time (we get to shows early and have a good half hour just munching his net), lots of practice (different venues, clinics, hacking), and celebrate all the wee improvements (lots of praise seems to work for him).
Very much on a journey with this, but he is getting better. We can get round an arena without spooking at the judges box, we are taking some of the fab work from warm-up into the arena, we sometimes get a good score.
I also regularly check for anything that could cause pain - so regular physio, saddle check, dentist, etc (as background pain can fill the stress bucket too).
Good luck with him, hope you find tools that work for you.

Thank you. That's really helpful and some really useful ideas on why he's like this. Trigger stacking could be something for me to think about. I tend to try and not spend too much time at the venue to limit his stress, but maybe the opposite is true.

 

[ihatework]

Worth entering a few low key tests HC and if you start to feel him gearing up, stop pat, let the adrenaline come down, carry on! Pre warning judge mind!

 

[moosea]

Thanks but no thanks. I already know I'm a cr@p rider. I'm not doing another test so we'll leave it there.

You are most definitly NOT a crap rider!! In fact you've got a really good position. Sometimes outside eyes can see things a rider can't

 

[doodle]

I find standing about watching and taking things in works better. Get there in plenty of time so you can just hang out. I always let him stand and watch the entire test if the person in before us. Taking in things while not being asked to work is more beneficial that lots of warming up.

 

[doodle]

Also I am quite pushy and get in the arena the second I can as I am always there ready to get in rather than being called. Even another 30 secs trotting round before the bell helps. Also having the same plan and route round arena before the bell.

 

[Lady Jane]

You def don't look crap and your horse is fab. Pics are a moment in time. Frustrating but stick with it

 

[ycbm]

You aren't a crap rider a lot of people would have come off at that spook.
.

 

[Denali]

He looks lovely and the bottom left picture made me laugh as I have been there. My issue is my horse feeds off me, and I definitely get show nerves. Warm up? Excellent. The second I know I’m being judged? Eh. Marsey thinks there should be cause for concern. She can save me in many ways but in dressage? “Oh you see the dragons too!?”

It could be your issue is the same as mine. I’m get tense and then marsey gets tense. Read over reactive . If the splits was a dressage movement we’d win every time!

 

[Marigold4]

You are most definitly NOT a crap rider!! In fact you've got a really good position. Sometimes outside eyes can see things a rider can't

Indeed, but I like to know the credentials of the person giving the advice first and see them ride! There's someone locally who likes to give me tips on my riding but I've seen her very "muscular" way of riding (all push, pull and strap your horse's mouth shut) and I don't aspire to that kind of riding one little bit though I expect she would get a higher mark than me if all things were equal and silly horse would actually go round the test without a meltdown.

 

[Marigold4]

You aren't a crap rider a lot of people would have come off at that spook.
.

Ha, ha - yes, it WAS quite dramatic! Experience of riding naughty ponies as a child has its uses. I did fall off a similar spook the previous week though and have damaged my coccyx. I am in such pain I can barely sit down. If it wasn't in such an embarrassing place I'd get it Xrayed. I backed this horse myself and that was my first fall despite a lot of silliness, so yes, I'll happily accept a few points for stickability!

 

[Marigold4]

I find standing about watching and taking things in works better. Get there in plenty of time so you can just hang out. I always let him stand and watch the entire test if the person in before us. Taking in things while not being asked to work is more beneficial that lots of warming up.

The organisers of the two comps I go to won't let you near the door if someone else is in. I think he might be better a lot better at an outside venue. I'm going to take a year out of dressage and maybe do some very low key showing and some clinics to take the pressure off both of us.

 

[Marigold4]

He looks lovely and the bottom left picture made me laugh as I have been there. My issue is my horse feeds off me, and I definitely get show nerves. Warm up? Excellent. The second I know I’m being judged? Eh. Marsey thinks there should be cause for concern. She can save me in many ways but in dressage? “Oh you see the dragons too!?”

It could be your issue is the same as mine. I’m get tense and then marsey gets tense. Read over reactive . If the splits was a dressage movement we’d win every time!

Me too! I just seem to stop riding when being judged! He's very forward and if I put my leg on in the test he rushes round unbalanced. If I apply more contact he "gnashes" his teeth so I just kind of sit there quietly. It's not all of the answer, but he might partly be more spooky because he wonders where I've gone.

 

[Marigold4]

You def don't look crap and your horse is fab. Pics are a moment in time. Frustrating but stick with it

There's only really one of the pictures where me riding when he's not doing something silly. I'm not the best of riders but even at my standard I should be able to do Intro up to Novice. It is very frustrating to be going backwards in the marks. Last month we scored 67 and 69 and came second.

 

[ozpoz]

Definitely not a crap rider Marigold! He looks fabulous I have a scaredy-cat, who can hold it together and concentrate with the help of acoustic ears, and Prokalm.You will get there!

 

[Marigold4]

He looks lovely and the bottom left picture made me laugh as I have been there. My issue is my horse feeds off me, and I definitely get show nerves. Warm up? Excellent. The second I know I’m being judged? Eh. Marsey thinks there should be cause for concern. She can save me in many ways but in dressage? “Oh you see the dragons too!?”

It could be your issue is the same as mine. I’m get tense and then marsey gets tense. Read over reactive . If the splits was a dressage movement we’d win every time!

What is it about dressage? It just seems to make everyone stressed. Give me show jumping any day. If you can persuade your horse to go over the jumps in the best time you win - no matter what you look like. I don't really fancy jumping this one though - imagine if there was a pot of flowers or a spotty filler!

 

[MidChristmasCrisis]

Don’t give up..just keep on exposing him to new experiences, wherever and whenever you can. One day you ll realise..ooo that went well….

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I would suggest not being embarrassed about your coccyx injury and get it x-rayed. You need to know what sort of damage you have done and how to treat it.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I don't think he's being sharp and clever though. I've had a sharp/clever horse before and she exactly needed this approach. This one is genuinely scared if he sees something he doesn't understand. If we are hacking and he sees something new you can feel and almost hear his heart thumping away. Once I've talked him through it, he's OK but he needs time to process what he's seeing. Unfortunately you can't do that in a dressage test!

Just get him out to see lots even just school hire and have a lesson just leave the competing for now to take the pressure off, I have a balance strap on my saddle so I can grab that it's not so obvious as a neck strap I feel better just having it there.

Try some calmers the syringe ones are pretty good I used to use oxy shot years ago, or calming cookies is what alot of people use now.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Mine is the same, we're currently learning to do gates and he's terrified of them moving towards them, his heart is really thumping between my legs , poor lad.
I think the more you can ride him from behind and the more he gets to trust you ,.the reactions will get smaller in time.

Getting them really forward will help because they are really working properly so it's more tiring for them and if you are positive about going forward he will be too.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Thanks but no thanks. I already know I'm a cr@p rider. I'm not doing another test so we'll leave it there.

Your not a crap rider at all his just a challenging horse get some help, once you get it together you will both look amazing together honestly.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Have you tried ground work with him? Teach him how to react to pressure/have a think first? This won't be helpful for all, but it's made a huge difference to Dex and might help someone.

I don't mean to sound all hippy dippy, but you will need a bag on a stick or something similarly spooky/noisy. I can go into more detail if you're interested, but I started in the school with the spooky item and waited until he put his nose on said item to sniff, then removed it (thus removing the pressure, this might take a while if horse is particularly spooky), once he got good at that I then walked backwards with the scary item dragging on the floor in front of me and he should follow scary item to put his nose on it or through being slightly more inquisitive about it, after a short period of doing what you would like him to then remove the item behind your back again. Rinse and repeat until comfortable, and then rather than removing it slow to a stop and see whether he will too and if he does then remove it (this teaches them not to run at thing at speed to put their nose on it but to be conscious of their movement).
Once happy with that then you move to running it over his body or waving it around, or having it above head height - whatever tests his pressure threshold but isn't to meltdown level, he will react most likely by trying to leave, being hugely tense, circling you, but the pressure doesn't go away (and importantly, also doesn't increase) until he stops moving his feet, that is the answer you want, it's super important to immediately remove pressure then as this is all about timing. Eventually he will not move his feet and you will instead reward any sign of softness - drop of the head, change in expression, looking towards the scary item, breathing out, that sort of thing.

It's important to note that you aren't desensitising him, you are teaching him to pause, soften, move towards pressure rather than blindly choose flight and overreact.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Have you tried ground work with him? Teach him how to react to pressure/have a think first? This won't be helpful for all, but it's made a huge difference to Dex and might help someone.

I don't mean to sound all hippy dippy, but you will need a bag on a stick or something similarly spooky/noisy. I can go into more detail if you're interested, but I started in the school with the spooky item and waited until he put his nose on said item to sniff, then removed it (thus removing the pressure, this might take a while if horse is particularly spooky), once he got good at that I then walked backwards with the scary item dragging on the floor in front of me and he should follow scary item to put his nose on it or through being slightly more inquisitive about it, after a short period of doing what you would like him to then remove the item behind your back again. Rinse and repeat until comfortable, and then rather than removing it slow to a stop and see whether he will too and if he does then remove it (this teaches them not to run at thing at speed to put their nose on it but to be conscious of their movement).
Once happy with that then you move to running it over his body or waving it around, or having it above head height - whatever tests his pressure threshold but isn't to meltdown level, he will react most likely by trying to leave, being hugely tense, circling you, but the pressure doesn't go away (and importantly, also doesn't increase) until he stops moving his feet, that is the answer you want, it's super important to immediately remove pressure then as this is all about timing. Eventually he will not move his feet and you will instead reward any sign of softness - drop of the head, change in expression, looking towards the scary item, breathing out, that sort of thing.

It's important to note that you aren't desensitising him, you are teaching him to pause, soften, move towards pressure rather than blindly choose flight and overreact.

This is really good advice.

When my back was bad I couldn't ride properly for 2 months and I did lots of ground work with Louis, taught him to do alot of things with my voice to help me when riding, it's really helped me and its really improved our relationship we just seem to understand each other better and his just all round easier and his 18.

So it's never too late.

 

[ihatework]

^^^ what ASBMO said.

My very reactive event horse was ‘started’ early 3yo year by a trainer that does a lot of this. I was so impressed by how she was able to shape him (I really think he wouldn’t be able to do what he is now if she hadn’t started him like this - he is that odd!) that I watched, learnt and applied it to both my 3yo’s. One is a doddle and would have been a doddle irrespective but the other had the potential to be sharp/reactive and ended up being a doddle too.

 

[Hallo2012]

TRT work, cannot recommend enough.

made a huge difference to mine -not spooky but very stressy initially and running on his hormones(stallion) it really helped him learn to stop, think, wait, not just react.

 

[SDMabel]

I have no helpful comments , other than to say what a handsome chap he is !

(p.s I don't blame him, dressage is overrated - coming from someone who has a memory of a goldfish and can never remember tests )

 

[Ouch05]

Not to derail the thread but I have the polar opposite, but I feel your pain just the same. When my boy is good he is amazing but mostly he is bad and our scores slump. At home he is amazing forward and fun, same in the warm up the moment we trot up the long side I feel him backing off. He backs off to the point of halt. I struggle to get him going again after that and the rest of the test is lacking any power. I dread a trot walk trot transition. He is not overly spooky like your boy just literally goes backwards.

 

[vmac66]

He's lovely.
Stick at it, you'll get there. My mare once stopped mid test to scratch her leg.