Dressage despair!

[HufflyPuffly]

With my very reactive, spooky, hot mess (especially in indoors) one, we firstly worked very hard on giving her tools to direct her energy better, I think we did very similar things to the TRT method and similar. I worked really hard to get her truly between hand and leg, so that I could keep her focus on me and not the scary, whatever it might have been today thing, she might have looked forward but wasn't actually in front of my leg. Once we had these tools I could take her out and expand her comfort zones by giving her less stressful outings, as I was there holding her hand. The more we went out, the higher up the levels she went then better she became.

However, she was still spooky and the big champs were never her forte. I was still sometimes that red-faced person looking like they'd never sat on a horse before and needing to be led into arenas, even when she was out at advanced lol.

Keep going, or actually even if you decide not to carry on with dressage, just enjoy him . You can work through it but I do sometimes look back and wonder how much it was a round peg in a square hole, the horse in question is now just hacking and still a ridiculous spooky idiot on occasion she's 20 this time and we're still waiting for her to grow up.

 

[LEC]

Mine too. THere is a lady where I hire an indoor who wants me to kick and thump him through it but as far as I can see it will only make him worse and I would hate to do that. It's not the kind of relationship I want with my horse

Do not do this! He needs to learn to find his forward button and confidence and the secret is him learning to find his own relaxation. Tbh most of this training starts at home as it won’t just be arenas, there will be lots of other signals which are going on which either he has trained you to work round or you ignore and just laugh it off as it’s not in a competition environment where it matters so much.
Tristan Tucker is probably the best on this kind of thing. Warwick Schiller has a lot of online resources as well.

 

[littleshetland]

Beautiful horse! I'm a bit like you...if I'm getting stressed I pitch forward...try and sit back. I f he's good in the warm up, then maybe he's picking up on your nerves during the actual test?
Take him lots of places - not necessarily comps, but you could always do some comps H/C and treat the whole experience as a schooling exercise. GoodLuck!

 

[eggs]

One of mine is very spooky and despite having competed up to Inter 1 and being 18 years old he can still be quite 'interesting' to ride out. The warm up is usually fine and I think he finds comfort in having the other horses near by but the test arena can be more challenging especially if it is out of sight of the warm up. For sure I know that I 'tighten' up when I trot down the centre line which doesn't help.

I've tried the hiring local venues before competing but he is pretty darn smart and notices if anything has changed since the last time and that is enough to worry him. He is the same at home too - if the mounting step gets moved a couple of inches he has to spook at it .....

I was doing my trot round at the Regionals last year and very nearly fell off before even entering at A as the judges boxes warranted some dramatic spins.

We are never going to set the dressage world on fire but we go out and enjoy ourselves and I wouldn't swap him for anything.

I do agree that having them in front of your leg is often the answer - and I don't mean whipping them to get there - as well as a comforting scratch on the wither.

Your boy looks lovely.

 

[Marigold4]

Do not do this! He needs to learn to find his forward button and confidence and the secret is him learning to find his own relaxation. Tbh most of this training starts at home as it won’t just be arenas, there will be lots of other signals which are going on which either he has trained you to work round or you ignore and just laugh it off as it’s not in a competition environment where it matters so much.
Tristan Tucker is probably the best on this kind of thing. Warwick Schiller has a lot of online resources as well.

Don't worry! I have no intention of doing that.

 

[tristar]

oh i ha one like this years ago, first outing jumped out arena then back in but got to the end, it was my first attempt too.

eventually, just kept going he settled, if i could relax and worked well and won, was much admired etc

if they can do it at home you know they can do it, i would just keep going and take no notice, even if it means coming down the board, i just keep asking him politely, but work on my own perception, would tell myself i am just here to give the horse an outing and not bothered what happens, take off the pressure and start to relax, even through the antics.

i would do lots of other things with him though.

that horse i had never really stopped the spooky thing, but one thing i did learn when schooling him was if i could relax, he would, and then he found his best way of going within an undemanding steady rhythm, and after about half an hour he was a different horse, i sort of worked him down, as opposed to working him in and loosened him completely, it was a big lesson for me, about going to a place and meeting the horse he could be, rather than getting frustrated and tense.

 

[sbloom]

There is a nice instructor who is about my size who might be willing. I put a pro rider on him for schooling and he ended up with an injured sacro-iliac joint as she asked too
much of him, so I need to take care who it is and what size they are. Good idea though.

So often injuries like this take quite a long time to happen, this might just have been the final straw rather than the cause. Super reactive unpredictable horses can be uncomfortable - being "vulnerable to predators" makes them edgy, in fight or flight more often than a comfortable horse. I know it's really common that horses are spooky and we think it's normal but it's worth considering this. I find EquitopiaCentre.com a really useful place to access webinars etc from incredibly knowledgeable professionals to start getting a handle on where to go next. I'd be looking to bodywork/saddle, and then groundwork, positive reinforcement type stuff.

Thanks but no thanks. I already know I'm a cr@p rider. I'm not doing another test so we'll leave it there.

Bless you, please don't be so hard on yourself. I don't think your saddle is helping you, it's dropping you into anterior tilt, not stabilising your pelvis (super common as it's not often specifically looked at in saddle fitting) and leaves you much more vulnerable to his spooking. It will be playing a part in the cycle the two of you are getting into, so in time it's worth trying a saddle that fits your pelvis better and perhaps getting some biomechanics lessons (they help EVERYONE), and maybe even some confidence stuff? I have met this lady https://www.facebook.com/balanceandalignequine, she kind of works on confidence for both of you, might really be the making of your relationship with him.

Good luck whatever you decide to do, riding needs to be mostly enjoyable at least!

 

[sbloom]

Ha, ha - yes, it WAS quite dramatic! Experience of riding naughty ponies as a child has its uses. I did fall off a similar spook the previous week though and have damaged my coccyx. I am in such pain I can barely sit down. If it wasn't in such an embarrassing place I'd get it Xrayed. I backed this horse myself and that was my first fall despite a lot of silliness, so yes, I'll happily accept a few points for stickability!

Just seen this post - riding injured can often end in tears. This will be contributing to your insecurity in the saddle, the saddle might be fine, but I know what a massive difference a saddle that supports your pelvis can make. And maybe get onto one of the trainers from the Equestrian Fitness Academy (I work with Equimech in NI and Pilates at Blue House in Teesside, both have online offerings) to help with the healing and avoid compensation. We need to look after ourselves, for self care and to make sure we're not having a negative effect on the horse.

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

Took young silly horse to his 10th dressage test this weekend. He's been to this venue before a number of times and I hired the indoor school a few days beforehand, put out white boards etc but still he was a disaster in the test. Test was perfect at home but in the competition we achieved our lowest score ever. Perfect in the warm-up with no spooking but a nightmare in the indoor school. Now I know that I'm not riding that well, I've kind of frozen and am not riding him forward enough, my lower leg has come forward and I need more contact when he's got his head in the air but even so ...

So here are some photos from our test:

Half the time he had his head in the air

Occasionally he would sort himself out

Massive spook cause by a slight change in the colour of the sand by the door then froze (would move AT ALL) for what seemed like a minute as he stared at the photographer pointing a big zoom lens

Half pass every time in front of the judge

I'm not quite sure what the point of this post is except to vent my despair that after all this effort he is getting worse. I love him to bits though. We are not going to do any more tests for a year and just do light-hearted clinics. Anyone else got a horse that is a lunatic in an indoor school?

What a pretty pony . I was at the same event but was lucky as although mine had a fit at the photographer (who was very evil gnome like) as I was trying to ride down to give my number to the judge he behaved perfectly afterwards (he’s 14 so should) apart from having no gas in the tank.

There was also chink of bright light shining on the arena floor but luckily it dulled over but other riders mentioned it so take heart you’re not the only one.

I’ve just resorted to oats though as I needed oxygen after my first test.

 

[Widgeon]

Thanks but no thanks. I already know I'm a cr@p rider. I'm not doing another test so we'll leave it there.

You don't look like a cr@p rider from those photos, it looks like you'll probably get where you want to be with enough practice and patience. Sorry you've had such a painful injury though, do get yourself looked at and sorted out....if you're sore and stiff it won't help him.

 

[Widgeon]

I have a scaredy-cat, who can hold it together and concentrate with the help of acoustic ears, and Prokalm.

It's good stuff that isn't it!

 

[Sealine]

What a stunning horse I'd forgive him anything but I have a soft spot for a dun. You sat that huge spook so you're definitely not a crap rider. It's supposed to be fun so if you're not enjoying it take the pressure off yourself and stop the dressage for a while.

If it makes you feel better my horse once jumped the five bar gate out of the arena when I was practicing a dressage test with my instructor. Unfortunately 'Trot up the centre line and jump out the arena' isn't a movement I've seen on a dressage test.

 

[SEL]

Don't give up! Although waiting until you're not in pain is a good idea. I once got dumped against the wall of an indoor arena mid year when the horse spooked at a patch of light. Just a little embarrassing.

I've found with baby cob that going out with zero expectations has really helped my nerves - I used to be an awful competitor - and I ride much better as a result. Your horse is gorgeous so head out to clinics, test riding and anything else where you aren't being judged so can relax and enjoy the ride. You might find (hopefully!) the spooky nonsense just goes in time.

 

[Marigold4]

So often injuries like this take quite a long time to happen, this might just have been the final straw rather than the cause. Super reactive unpredictable horses can be uncomfortable - being "vulnerable to predators" makes them edgy, in fight or flight more often than a comfortable horse. I know it's really common that horses are spooky and we think it's normal but it's worth considering this. I find EquitopiaCentre.com a really useful place to access webinars etc from incredibly knowledgeable professionals to start getting a handle on where to go next. I'd be looking to bodywork/saddle, and then groundwork, positive reinforcement type stuff.



Bless you, please don't be so hard on yourself. I don't think your saddle is helping you, it's dropping you into anterior tilt, not stabilising your pelvis (super common as it's not often specifically looked at in saddle fitting) and leaves you much more vulnerable to his spooking. It will be playing a part in the cycle the two of you are getting into, so in time it's worth trying a saddle that fits your pelvis better and perhaps getting some biomechanics lessons (they help EVERYONE), and maybe even some confidence stuff? I have met this lady https://www.facebook.com/balanceandalignequine, she kind of works on confidence for both of you, might really be the making of your relationship with him.

Good luck whatever you decide to do, riding needs to be mostly enjoyable at least!

Thanks for your reply. Lots to think about there but part of the reason why I'm tipped forward is that it hurts to sit upright because of the coccyx injury! I now have a good indicator for when I'm sitting upright - it hurts! I csn see your point about the saddle but this is the only saddle he is happy in and his back is the best it's ever been - so my physio who sees him regularly tells me. At one point I genuinely considered retiring him as I simply could not find a saddle to fit him for love nor money, so even if it's not perfect for me, I'm sticking with it! I actually really like riding in it - it's open and flat. I'm having once a month lessons on a mechanical horse with an excellent biomechanics teacher and am learning loads - putting it into practice is a different matter at my age but I'm giving it a go. The injury is a sudden onset one with an obvious cause - I fell off on very hard ground. Nothing wrong with it before the fall. It will pass in time. I've started and produced 4 young horses in the last 10 years and sold on 3 - the new owners stay in touch and are very happy with them - they are all out happily doing riding club stuff. This horse is different - he thinks in a completely different way. I don't however think I'm a great rider. I genuinely AM a bit crap at some things - I think it's Ok to say that though. It doesn't necessarily mean I lack confidence - I'm just realistic about my level of skill!

 

[Marigold4]

oh i ha one like this years ago, first outing jumped out arena then back in but got to the end, it was my first attempt too.

eventually, just kept going he settled, if i could relax and worked well and won, was much admired etc

if they can do it at home you know they can do it, i would just keep going and take no notice, even if it means coming down the board, i just keep asking him politely, but work on my own perception, would tell myself i am just here to give the horse an outing and not bothered what happens, take off the pressure and start to relax, even through the antics.

i would do lots of other things with him though.

that horse i had never really stopped the spooky thing, but one thing i did learn when schooling him was if i could relax, he would, and then he found his best way of going within an undemanding steady rhythm, and after about half an hour he was a different horse, i sort of worked him down, as opposed to working him in and loosened him completely, it was a big lesson for me, about going to a place and meeting the horse he could be, rather than getting frustrated and tense.

 

[Marigold4]

Thanks for replying - that's very useful to know. I think you are right and I need to spend more time getting him used to the venue and "working him down", as you say. Someone else suggested.this in a post about "trigger.stacking" and it really made sense. I usually have OH with me so feel conscious of him wanting to go home and not having to get him up too early so don't spend much time at the venue. Think maybe he should stay at home! Good to know that your horse improved in time. It's just such a lot of time and money to do these things, it tends to pile the pressure on to do well - and OH looks so disappointed!

 

[Marigold4]

What a stunning horse I'd forgive him anything but I have a soft spot for a dun. You sat that huge spook so you're definitely not a crap rider. It's supposed to be fun so if you're not enjoying it take the pressure off yourself and stop the dressage for a while.

If it makes you feel better my horse once jumped the five bar gate out of the arena when I was practicing a dressage test with my instructor. Unfortunately 'Trot up the centre line and jump out the arena' isn't a movement I've seen on a dressage test.

Ha ha. That's very funny about your horse jumping out. Must have given your instructor a moment!

 

[Marigold4]

You don't look like a cr@p rider from those photos, it looks like you'll probably get where you want to be with enough practice and patience. Sorry you've had such a painful injury though, do get yourself looked at and sorted out....if you're sore and stiff it won't help him.

Thanks for replying - I think it just needs time and some painkillers. If it's not any better in another week I'll see GP but having looked it up, there doesn't seem much they could do anyway.

 

[Marigold4]

It's good stuff that isn't it!

I might try some!

 

[Marigold4]

Don't give up! Although waiting until you're not in pain is a good idea. I once got dumped against the wall of an indoor arena mid year when the horse spooked at a patch of light. Just a little embarrassing.

I've found with baby cob that going out with zero expectations has really helped my nerves - I used to be an awful competitor - and I ride much better as a result. Your horse is gorgeous so head out to clinics, test riding and anything else where you aren't being judged so can relax and enjoy the ride. You might find (hopefully!) the spooky nonsense just goes in time.

Thanks for replying. I've just booked into a couple of clinics and a novice showing class. We will steer clear of dressage for now. Neither of us is enjoying it! Amusingly, we didn't actually come last. but still, the score hurt.

 

[Hallo2012]

Thanks for replying - that's very useful to know. I think you are right and I need to spend more time getting him used to the venue and "working him down", as you say. Someone else suggested.this in a post about "trigger.stacking" and it really made sense. I usually have OH with me so feel conscious of him wanting to go home and not having to get him up too early so don't spend much time at the venue. Think maybe he should stay at home! Good to know that your horse improved in time. It's just such a lot of time and money to do these things, it tends to pile the pressure on to do well - and OH looks so disappointed!

it is time and money but if you cant buy a schoolmaster, and are producing a horse, you have to write it off as a learning curve.

dont expect the time and money to pay off for months if not years and take that pressure off both of you.

 

[Marigold4]

it is time and money but if you cant buy a schoolmaster, and are producing a horse, you have to write it off as a learning curve.

dont expect the time and money to pay off for months if not years and take that pressure off both of you.

Not always though! Didn't you do really well in a young pony dressage championship with a 5 year old?? I think it depends very much on the horse. My other projects had been scoring in the 70s by this stage - or in fact earlier.

 

[Hallo2012]

Not always though! Didn't you do really well in a young pony dressage championship with a 5 year old?? I think it depends very much on the horse. My other projects had been scoring in the 70s by this stage - or in fact earlier.

but they are all different?

He did qualify but then was quite tense at the final so we didn't produce our best work, but zero point being upset by it as its just part of the process....he was FAR better than he was as a 4yo and by next year he will be better yet as 6yo. Some previous 5yo have been more zen by this stage but he isn't quite there YET.

I had a very talented small tour horse that still used to rear and get eliminated as often at inter 1 as at novice, but i chose to work with that horse so i mostly had to suck it up.

at the end of the day you either sell the horse and buy something that suits your timeline or you accept the horses timeline and work with that. Will mine be very tense in a few weeks at his first outdoor big show....yes......but does he have the potential to train up the levels.....yes. so overall 100% worth the sweat.

 

[Ratface]

Just get him out to see lots even just school hire and have a lesson just leave the competing for now to take the pressure off, I have a balance strap on my saddle so I can grab that it's not so obvious as a neck strap I feel better just having it there.

Try some calmers the syringe ones are pretty good I used to use oxy shot years ago, or calming cookies is what alot of people use now.

I'm another one with a balance strap on my saddle! Old Horse, aged 30 (!) is definitely Old enough to know better, but has an advanced sense of humour. I wouldn't dream of taking him to a dressage competition now as he is getting naughtier as the years add up.
My previous naughty Arab, Ryazan, and I did a few but we rarely placed as he was a terrible show-off and wanted to do extended trot and gallop when we should have been doing medium trot and collected canter.
Ryazan and I had some funny judge's comments on our sheet: "Somewhat onward bound today". "Unfortunately, watching aircraft today".
Loved him to bits. Best horse ever. He was a late-gelded (at 10) working stallion, who was abandoned on the marsh by people of a mobile nature who couldn't beat him into submission.

 

[Ratface]

Having read through to the current end of this post reminded me of the Egyptian Arabian that I bought after Ratty Ry was pts.
This one was also sharp as a tack and spooked at everything. We went to his first dressage test (Intro 1) and I rode him in round a graveyard, because I was sure he would boil over in the warm-up area. After spooking at every wreath, bunch of flowers and stone angel in walk and trot, he was a perfect pearl when we finally got in the ring and we won! I realised he was just too much horse for me (I bought him sight unseen as a starved four-year-old from off the Belfast marshes) and he's now with a friend of mine.
She does eventing on him and long-distance rides and he excels at both. He's 17 now and has a lovely home for life.

 

[Marigold4]

I'm another one with a balance strap on my saddle! Old Horse, aged 30 (!) is definitely Old enough to know better, but has an advanced sense of humour. I wouldn't dream of taking him to a dressage competition now as he is getting naughtier as the years add up.
My previous naughty Arab, Ryazan, and I did a few but we rarely placed as he was a terrible show-off and wanted to do extended trot and gallop when we should have been doing medium trot and collected canter.
Ryazan and I had some funny judge's comments on our sheet: "Somewhat onward bound today". "Unfortunately, watching aircraft today".
Loved him to bits. Best horse ever. He was a late-gelded (at 10) working stallion, who was abandoned on the marsh by people of a mobile nature who couldn't beat him into submission.

I love the judge's comments! I didn't pick up my sheet from Sunday but am hoping the judge has something amusing to say when I finally see it. I adore this horse and his character. He is a delight to handle and is always very pleased to see me. I was hoping he would get more sane as the years go by but yours got naughtier!

 

[Marigold4]

but they are all different?

He did qualify but then was quite tense at the final so we didn't produce our best work, but zero point being upset by it as its just part of the process....he was FAR better than he was as a 4yo and by next year he will be better yet as 6yo. Some previous 5yo have been more zen by this stage but he isn't quite there YET.

I had a very talented small tour horse that still used to rear and get eliminated as often at inter 1 as at novice, but i chose to work with that horse so i mostly had to suck it up.

at the end of the day you either sell the horse and buy something that suits your timeline or you accept the horses timeline and work with that. Will mine be very tense in a few weeks at his first outdoor big show....yes......but does he have the potential to train up the levels.....yes. so overall 100% worth the sweat.

Thank you for replying. Good down-to-earth advice. I'm so proud of him and what he can do at home, it's disappointing that he can't show any of it to the judge. I might do some online dressage to see how we do in a home environment. Good luck at your first big outdoor show - I'm sure he will come home with lots of ribbons.

 

[Marigold4]

Thanks everyone for your advice and sympathy - and nice remarks about handsome Otto. It's been very useful to hear other's experiences of similar horses and what they did to alleviate the stress/deal with the spookiness. Unfortunately, there's no magic wand for this but some really great ideas - and you've given me a much better sense of perspective about his spookiness. It's clearly going to be a long and slow process.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I'm another one with a balance strap on my saddle! Old Horse, aged 30 (!) is definitely Old enough to know better, but has an advanced sense of humour. I wouldn't dream of taking him to a dressage competition now as he is getting naughtier as the years add up.
My previous naughty Arab, Ryazan, and I did a few but we rarely placed as he was a terrible show-off and wanted to do extended trot and gallop when we should have been doing medium trot and collected canter.
Ryazan and I had some funny judge's comments on our sheet: "Somewhat onward bound today". "Unfortunately, watching aircraft today".
Loved him to bits. Best horse ever. He was a late-gelded (at 10) working stallion, who was abandoned on the marsh by people of a mobile nature who couldn't beat him into submission.

I love my balance strap I feel much safer with it and its a brown leather one like my saddle so you hardly see it.

I've had some interesting comments one was " it just wasn't your day today"

 

[Hallo2012]

Thank you for replying. Good down-to-earth advice. I'm so proud of him and what he can do at home, it's disappointing that he can't show any of it to the judge. I might do some online dressage to see how we do in a home environment. Good luck at your first big outdoor show - I'm sure he will come home with lots of ribbons.

i'm quite sure he will be a noisy, 5 legged little wotsit but might have settled by the 3rd test!

they will get there, both of them.