Dressage - feeling disheartened :(

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toulouse1

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Ok so had my boy a year and this year we started to attempt dressage, I was really pleased with his scores to begin with avg 63% as neither of us had dome dressage before )prelim)

However I'm starring to get down as we are getting the same comments every time and I can't seem to get past the 6's and 7's - I know the comments are correct

The problem is he constantly chops at the bit and does not relax his jaw, he's had teeth back full health check etc, tried lots of different bits and always the same, I'm doing lots of hacking and lunging low and long, he does not do it on the lunge!

Just having one of those, what's the point moments if I'm not improving, I'd die to get an 8 in just one movement!
I should mention that his natural position is giraffe! Even in the field he's stood like a meerkat so I'm on an uphill battle already!
 
Don't worry, you are doing better than me when I started doing dressage as my scores went downhill for a while!

I often try to get my tests videoed which I then go over with my trainer to figure out ways to improve things.

One of my horses constantly chomps on his bit (he has all the checks done and my EDT previously asked if he chomps on the bit as he is the worst he has ever known for chomping at the gag when he is having his teeth done). My trainer (who is a list 1 judge tells me not to worry as everything else is OK). Some judges mark him down for it and others don't. I have found that the higher up the levels he goes (currently competing Medium) that the less the judges have commented on it.

I could stop this by clamping his mouth shut with a tight noseband but this is a route I will not go down.
 
I feel your pain! My mare was always tense in her tests. The galling thing was, she would warm up beautifully away from the arena, but that was in the show field that she normally did her working hunter class in, so she would go through the gate and promptly rev up and be looking for the jumps and planning a good old gallop. All my comments used to say it was a pity she couldn't relax etc, but being a part welsh, chestnut mare, it sort of went with the territory! I always did my tests in sitting trot as one little rise and she would go into her mad overdrive extended trot at the best of times. I used to pretend to be smiling but very quietly I would be giving her vocal commands throughout the test. You learn to be a good ventriloquist with a horse like that :)
 
Having not seen you ride you might already be doing this but sounds like a contact issue so check that you are being "elastic" through the elbow. I rode my mare with too straight an arm & when I brought my elbow closer to my side this allowed my hand to not be so locked & she's a lot less fussy in the mouth & seeks the contact without me doing much with the hand.
 
Hard to answer this question without knowing what the dressage judge's comments are - are you happy to share them? If you are getting 7's for certain movements that's great, dont worry about improving those; if you get 7's throughout your test you are on 70%! Most people would die for a score of 70% so leave the 7's alone. Its the 6's and 6.5's which identify areas for improvement, so what are the comments next to the scores of 6 and 6.5? And what is written from the judge next to the collectives?

Remember, in dressage a score of 7 means fairly good and 6 means satisfactory - so these scores mean that you are performing the movements in the required fashion, there is nothing wrong with them so dont be so hard on yourself! I worked at a dressage venue for years where I ran the shows, and I rarely saw more than a 7, even the pro's dont always get much more than a 7!

One other question for you - does the venue you are competing at use BD listed judges? Has it been the same judge each time you have gone out, or are a variety of judges all saying the same thing?
 
Does she do this at home or just during the test? If it's just during the test then it may be to do with stress and exposure to more comps or more schooling away from home might improve things. If it's all of the time ridden / schooling then it may be anything from contact issues through to back or hind limb soreness / tightness.

Is it only on tight reins or does she do it on a loose rein?

Do you do in hand schooling? Does she do it then?

What does your instructor say?
 
Yes happy to share the comments, usually it's on the lines of 'lots to like but needs to be more consistent' or 'needs to accept the contact'
That's good to know re the 7's and I should work to improve the 6's ! Does not seem to be a pattern where I'm scoring 6's
The judges are a mix, some bd, so not, but definitely the same, at the start I was always getting needs to work over back, the past two tests have not had that and he did feel better so I guess that's coming on abit better?
Yes it probably is my riding but again yesterday felt like a tried really hard as I can tend to loose all ability in the nerves but yesterday felt good so just felt abit down after getting my sheet
Does any one think I should try a drop noseband? He's in a flash but it's not cranked right up
 
Yes he does it at home as soon as bridle goes on he's choking away, he does not do it hacking,on lunge with a trading aid or jumping! He's like a 4yo but rising 7!
 
I feel your pain. My horse constantly chomps at the bit. He's slowly getting out of the habit now but I find the more I ride him forward and get him working over his back the less he has time to think about it.

All of my older tests never used to say anything about him chomping but they always used to say 'needs to be ridden more actively forward' as soon as I changed instructors and we tackled that issue the comping seemed to stop.

Just keep going and keep up the good work!! Sounds like you're doing a pretty good job as it is :):)

I had my chomper in a drop which he didn't seem to like but my friend has a chomper who goes beautifully in his drop noseband. Do you know anyone who has one that you could maybe try your horse in before you go out and buy one? :)
 
Trakehner92 said:
I feel your pain. My horse constantly chomps at the bit. He's slowly getting out of the habit now but I find the more I ride him forward and get him working over his back the less he has time to think about it.

All of my older tests never used to say anything about him chomping but they always used to say 'needs to be ridden more actively forward' as soon as I changed instructors and we tackled that issue the comping seemed to stop.

Just keep going and keep up the good work!! Sounds like you're doing a pretty good job as it is :):)

I had my chomper in a drop which he didn't seem to like but my friend has a chomper who goes beautifully in his drop noseband. Do you know anyone who has one that you could maybe try your horse in before you go out and buy one? :)
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Thanks for the good vibes! I have a new instructor coming next week to see if we can try and change things up :)
Will also look into loaning a drop :)
 
I was always disheartened at the end of my tests. I was constantly stuck at 64% and I always used to think "how can I ride this horse more forwards!?" He always felt like he was going to explode if I put my leg on or have him a bit more rein!

In the end I caved and hired a very expensive but very reputable instructor and the problem went after one lesson and hey ho... so did the chomping! I've moved to her yard now as she's the only one that I gel with lol.

Good luck with the new instructor. Try not to feel disheartened. You seem to be doing a fab job. It took me ages to get one 7 never mind a few! :):)
 
toulouse1 said:
Thanks for the good vibes! I have a new instructor coming next week to see if we can try and change things up :)
Will also look into loaning a drop :)
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Good luck with the new instructor. I think a good instructor will be key to this for you.
 
toulouse1 said:
Yes he does it at home as soon as bridle goes on he's choking away, he does not do it hacking,on lunge with a trading aid or jumping! He's like a 4yo but rising 7!
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Sorry if this sounds harsh, it's not intended to be.
From your quote above I would look at your end of the contact.
I am assuming you are lunging and hacking in a bit and he has no issue then. I'm also assuming that when you are jumping you are not thinking about working in an outline.
You also said that you used to get comments of 'needs to work over his back more' but that is sorted now.
Could it be that you are pulling him into an outline (resulting in the improved 'working over back' comments)?
Maybe you've fixed one issue (on the surface) but created another.
I would go back and look at how you fixed the working over back comments, has this changed your contact? Can you find a way to get the same results but with a contact he will accept?
Unless you switch bits between schooling, lunging, jumping and hacking then I don't believe the bit is the issue and personally I wouldn't go down the route of hiding the issue with a drop or flash. I'd rather work on finding a contact he likes.
 
What bit is he in? Sometimes the nutcracker action of a normal snaffle causes them problems, and the tension in your arms which is only natural schooling or at a competition raises the joint onto the roof of the mouth, and a drop will stop him trying to find the only release he can. Hacking or lunging you probably are more relaxed and your contact looser? You could try a link snaffle or something straight (I don't know which are dressage legal and which not so that's your starting point)
 
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Another thing to consider is how tests are marked - as far as I understand, the judge will look at the horses paces and give them a grade, and that will be the maximum grade it can get in each movement. So if your horse had paces worth a 7, 7 is your top mark (it could vary between paces too). We got 8.5 for our halt last time out, but I suspect any horse should be able to have a halt worth 10! Happy to be corrected here, but when I learned this it explained a lot about my test sheets!
 
I haven't read all of the replies but will say an instructor especially one that can get on and show you could be all of the difference.

Usually if your horse isn't accepting the contact you are likely doing something wrong as to connect your horse between leg and hand and for him to trust that he can seek the contact and therefore stay in the outline you desire takes some changing, usually in your position and ability to be quick enough to know how to warm up his body, soften the jaw/poll/neck/back, create enough impulsion from behind to lift the back and engage and being aware of the difference when you may need to show passive resistance down the rein and then being allowing with the contact when he softens so he trusts you to work into an elastic contact.
I know it all sounds a lot but when you have someone on the ground that can be quick enough to show you how to react and not just see-saw the head down you will honestly get there in no time. If you don't feel your current instructor is getting you there, seek out a reputable dressage instructor until you find one you click with.
Best of luck x
 
What's bit do you ride him in? and I would try without the flash some horses don't have much room in their mouths so if his tongue is being pressed down he can't swallow properly which is really uncomfortable, also how high is the bit in his mouth it can make a huge difference where it is and also the size of the bit really matters.
 
Thanks all, totally agreed that it's something I need to work on and just trying to find out how to get there, I guess my main aim of the post was that he felt a lot better yesterday in his tests compared to what he did, but didn't reflect in the comments, then again it was a judge we have never seen before.
Also he starts the chomping as soon as the bridle goes on, he loves his jumping and hacking and think he gets bored of schooling
He's in a neue schule snaffle, I've tried all sorts but he seems to prefer more of a fixed fit
I've tried with out a flash and he's the same, all though the flash is v loose there is prob not much difference
I've been recommended this instructor by quite a few people so hopefully she will give me some advise and maybe get on and have a feel!
 
soloequestrian said:
Another thing to consider is how tests are marked - as far as I understand, the judge will look at the horses paces and give them a grade, and that will be the maximum grade it can get in each movement. So if your horse had paces worth a 7, 7 is your top mark (it could vary between paces too). We got 8.5 for our halt last time out, but I suspect any horse should be able to have a halt worth 10! Happy to be corrected here, but when I learned this it explained a lot about my test sheets!
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A judge should not look at a horses paced and decide how good or bad it is. My very plain tb gets far better marks than my flashy warmblood, simply as she performs a better test.
 
soloequestrian said:
Another thing to consider is how tests are marked - as far as I understand, the judge will look at the horses paces and give them a grade, and that will be the maximum grade it can get in each movement. So if your horse had paces worth a 7, 7 is your top mark (it could vary between paces too). We got 8.5 for our halt last time out, but I suspect any horse should be able to have a halt worth 10! Happy to be corrected here, but when I learned this it explained a lot about my test sheets!
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Not my understanding at all, a poor moving horse going correctly can score higher marks than 7 by being accurate, working through to a good soft contact and giving an overall pleasing test, the marks at the bottom will reflect the test as a whole and a poor mover may drop a mark for paces but it should never be judged with the paces as a base mark otherwise there would be no hope for some horses to ever move on.

The OP has had some good advice, it will probably be something your new instructor will pick up on that will make the difference, often a fresh approach is all that is required to get the 6's to become 7's and your overall % will go up.
 
Don't worry. I've been getting the same comments for about the last 4 years! Guarrenteed we will always get the comments "lovely horse, needs to work more from behind into the hand for better marks".

If you look at the definitions, 6 and 7 isn't a bad mark, but I can understand wanting to score better.
 
toulouse1 said:
Thanks all, totally agreed that it's something I need to work on and just trying to find out how to get there, I guess my main aim of the post was that he felt a lot better yesterday in his tests compared to what he did, but didn't reflect in the comments, then again it was a judge we have never seen before.
Also he starts the chomping as soon as the bridle goes on, he loves his jumping and hacking and think he gets bored of schooling
He's in a neue schule snaffle, I've tried all sorts but he seems to prefer more of a fixed fit
I've tried with out a flash and he's the same, all though the flash is v loose there is prob not much difference
I've been recommended this instructor by quite a few people so hopefully she will give me some advise and maybe get on and have a feel!
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I think trying a new instructor is a good idea I have recently had some lesson with a very good dressage rider only had about 5 lessons,but my horses canter has got better my riding has got better and the whole picture looks better in general, so hopefully this will be all you need:)
 
I got the same comments for a while (similar), tool ages but worked on it all the time, I also have one regular instructor plus I use a couple of others now and then for a different outlook - can be good to use other people for a an alternative view! Would it also be worth trying a few test riding clinics, most venues and BD run them and they can be handy (have seen a couple by dressage writing).

Dressage writing for judges is another useful thing as you can see tests through the judges viewpoint and they will often take time to discuss things with you
 
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