Dressage judging

[risky business]

Hey guys,

I've got a dressage question that's been bugging me for a little while and thought I'd just go ahead and ask.

At dressage competitions I'm finding that horses that seek the contact/try and work into the hand but may be inconsistent in doing so are scored lower than a horse that doesn't attempt to seek any contact and trots along quietly with its head in the stars?

Now I understand inconsistent contact is not ideal and I wouldn't expect a horse to score highly for such. But surely a horse that is atleast attempting to work correctly is preferable to a horse that may be quiet with their head but is in no way shape or form attempting to work correctly?

I'm no dressage diva so may be misunderstanding it just confuses me slightly.

I'd rather see a horse seeking that contact from being worked correctly rather than a horse resembling a giraffe?!

 

[Nicnac]

Great question and something I have also wondered. I believe it is more prevalent unaffiliated?

The horse who isn't working through may be relaxed and have lovely and/or rhythmical paces, whereas the one who is inconsistent could be seen as resistant; tense and varying rhythm due to this.

Would have to see the two sheets next to each other to really understand where the difference in marks comes I guess.

I'm no dressage diva either! I am sure somebody qualified will be along soon with the correct answer

 

[milliepops]

is this unaff? if so you can end up with all kinds of people judging and it's a bit the luck of the draw whether they are consistent or even trained.

Of course there are other things that are important in the way of going that contribute to the marks which makes it less straightforward (for instance a horse that is inconsistent but trying to the contact may actually be losing a secure rhythm when it pings on and off the rein)

 

[Littlebear]

I have done a lot of judging and I would add to this that a lot of the time when the contact is very inconsistent sometimes so are the steps, sometimes because of a lack of suppleness when they are varying the contact the rhythm is affected which is the first scale of training and in the first few levels.
If a horse is hollow and not accepting of the contact they will be marked accordingly but a horse showing tension and varying contact will be awarded marks for the movements that they accept it but could be losing marks for not only lack of contact acceptance but also for varying rhythm plus the rider mark could be affected if you have a fiddly handed rider which I have seen where they constantly either saw the mouth to try to get them on the bit or fiddle with the reins often in a low position instead of riding forward into a consistent steady contact.
Obviously loads of possibilities here but that would be my thought on it x

 

[risky business]

Thanks guys really interesting and things I hadn't considered!

I've only competed twice in dressage as it's not something I massively enjoy but a friend of mine competes a lot unaff and sometimes on younger horses that can be inconsistent and this element always seemed to confuse me.

So I guess that horse that does star gaze as such is more consistent over all than one who attempts to seek contact but isn't consistent.

 

[splashgirl45]

i have written for many judges and at the lower levels, usually unaffiliated, it is very difficult for the judge to award better marks to a horse which is inconsistent to the contact, you have to look at the overall picture. many of the horses who are not being nagged into a contact show good rhythm,are moving nicely forward show accuracy of shapes and ride to the letter together with straightness when coming down the centre line and a square halt. on the other hand the horse who is constantly arguing with the contact may also have varying rhythm, not always going forward, wrong shaped circles ,missing the letters,and not be straight or have a square halt. it is surprisingly difficult to judge these classes .. i would suggest that you and your friend offer to write for the judges and you will learn loads. i had been used to writing for the higher tests and didnt appreciate what it is like to judge the lower ones. my eyes were opened....

 

[Adelelau]

I have also noticed this and as someone else here has said its often because inconsistent contact means inconsistent rhythm and steps therefore lower score - a horse with its head in the air , although not working correctly may be in a lovely rhythm and relaxed!

 

[maya2008]

So you get penalised for attempting to teach your horse to go in a correct outline!

 

[milliepops]

No you don't get penalised, but you need to show it on the day without compromising any of the other elements of the way of going/set test that make up the final scores.

 

[maya2008]

No you don't get penalised, but you need to show it on the day without compromising any of the other elements of the way of going/set test that make up the final scores.

Yes, but when horses first learn to lift their backs and move correctly, they are using a whole new set of muscles. Those muscles take time to develop, so their movement will be less consistent while they are building strength. Moving correctly in an outline is beneficial for the horse, so surely we should encourage people to school their horses correctly? As it stands, the moment they start to teach their horse to move in an outline, their scores will drop.

 

[ihatework]

Yes, but when horses first learn to lift their backs and move correctly, they are using a whole new set of muscles. Those muscles take time to develop, so their movement will be less consistent while they are building strength. Moving correctly in an outline is beneficial for the horse, so surely we should encourage people to school their horses correctly? As it stands, the moment they start to teach their horse to move in an outline, their scores will drop.

Not if they are doing it correctly 😜

If they are in that training stage then the answer is either don’t compete until the contact and rhythm is solid or accept the scores safe in the knowledge they will quickly improve.

The judge can only judge what is in front of them.

 

[milliepops]

Not if they are doing it correctly 😜

If they are in that training stage then the answer is either don’t compete until the contact and rhythm is solid or accept the scores safe in the knowledge they will quickly improve.

The judge can only judge what is in front of them.

this!

Mine is in an interim stage at the moment, 50% of the time he's on the bit and working correctly, 50% of the time he's yobbing about like a giraffe.
We won't go in front of a judge until I can get that proportion to be much more favourable! Otherwise we would just have to take the hit and understand that as a work in progress we won't score the marks he will be capable of in the future.

 

[be positive]

Yes, but when horses first learn to lift their.elop, so their movement will be less consistent while they are building strength. Moving correctly in an outline is beneficial for the horse, so surely we should encourage people to school their horses correctly? As it stands, the moment they start to teach their horse to move in an outline, their scores will drop.

That is a rather simplistic view and will only apply to horses that are not yet properly established at the stage of training required for the test, if they are started correctly, do not compete until fairly well established there is no reason the scores will drop, if you are changing the way of going then you need to accept the scores may drop or alter in some way and continue to improve as you go.
A judge can only mark what they see not what may be there in the future.

 

[Littlebear]

I think this is being simplified a bit too much - keep in mind that young/green horses for example are more unbalanced and will often hollow in transitions etc etc while they build strength, I see some that expertly ridden by balanced riders with a good knowledge of how to give them the time and patience in the early levels, even though its not the perfect picture you can still see a nice rhythm, swinging back, in front of the leg and showing suppleness being developed, you just know that these will move up the levels with ease even though its not perfect at that moment - this is a whole different ballgame to those that are riding stiffer horses with more novice riders who try and pull the front end in and get the horse on the bit with their hands - THIS is where you see other elements being affected and its not a nice picture, heads swinging side to side, hands low and unsteady, sometimes blocking all the way through the back so the hind end is trailing.
There is no way the aforementioned would not come ahead of a horse that remains hollow but does the test in a nice rhythm without any pushing and pulling, the latter, quite rightly will.