Dressage warm-ups and out of control horses

[doratheexplorer]

Firewell - I agree that it was dangerous... But chances are that it was the stallions first time at an event, and the rider was under prepared for what was going to happen... When you fall off, you get back on and try again, so perhaps that is what she was trying to do, failing, but she was probably trying to reinforce how to behave correctly at a BE event...
Maybe they have already done walk and trot tests unaff stuff - nothing really ever compares to the buzz of a BE event...

 

[Pachamama]

It generally comes down to the manners of the rider! Everyone accepts that horses are unpredictable animals and the occasional naughtieness is ok as long as it is dealt with in a way that doesn't hamper others. However those who habitually ruin the warm up for others should have some sort of warning from the steward.

I'd be absolutely mortified if my horse's naughtiness disrupted someone else's warm up. And as for deliberately trying to put people off... absolutely disgraceful

 

[charlie76]

My horse used to be a nightmare in the warm up. He was scared of the other horses causing tension resulting in spinning and rearing. I solved this by taking him to local sj competitions where we hung about and worked in the practice arena. He is now lovley in the warm up

 

[mystiandsunny]

My horse used to be a nightmare in the warm up. He was scared of the other horses causing tension resulting in spinning and rearing. I solved this by taking him to local sj competitions where we hung about and worked in the practice arena. He is now lovley in the warm up

Exactly my point - in SJ comps, and showing classes, everyone roughly goes around the same way and it's all less scary. It gives a chance to get used to shows (and to prize givings for those aiming at champs later on) with a greater safety net allowed in terms of martingale etc if needed (for SJ anyway), and in a less challenging environment. Then a dressage warm-up is just irritating once the rider has learnt to stare down the idiots who just want to run you over. I comment actually: 'left to left' works quite well when they don't give you enough room and you're squished between them and the wall! That or wear a red ribbon and announce 'she kicks' to any idiot coming close enough to hear!

I would expect the odd 'issue' at intro/prelim where there're lots of young horses, but beyond that? If you're going to bother training your horse properly, please include behaving around other horses!

 

[charlie76]

I Also found the show jumpers more accepting of the loon so I was less stressed which helped no end

 

[millitiger]

Millie used to be quite disruptive in the warm up (she was scared of the other horses coming too close and would fly buck to try and get away!) so I used to spend a lot of time warming up by walking around the car park as imo it is not fair to ruin other people's warm up.

When we evented I rarely jumped a practice fence before the sj and would go into the ring 'cold' as, again, I don't want to ruin other people's warm up.

She is much better now and we can go straight into the warm up at shows- this is because I have spent 18 months in car parks and choosing venues and warm ups carefully so she has gained confidence at quiet venues first.

She can still hump her back and run for a stride if people get very close to her in canter but her feet don't leave the floor and I can give her a quick pat and she relaxes again normally.

 

[Sol]

Thought.... for any of you saying 'I'd hate it if someone elses horse wound mine up', well, shouldn't your horse also be listening to you, and ignoring the other horses, regardless of their antics? If the same horse can cope with most other things then shouldn't 'wild' horses be just another thing we get our horses used to before taking them to comps?

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

its not as easy as *traiing them to behave in a warm up* though is it......because if thats the only situation your horse is sharp in, the only way to cure it/improve it, is to keep going to warm ups.

having sj'd,evented and shown, prior to doing dressage, im well used to getting in my bubble and not really worrying about what other peoples horses are up to, as long as they arent actually barging in to me, i can work round it.

theres always one or two going inside out and upside down in the warm up (not always mine!!!) and i usually give the rider a sypathetic smile and give way to them all the time, even if technically my right of way, ie i try and make their life a bit easier ao they have maximum chance to settle their horse.

have to say that whilst mine can be loopy, iv never ran in to anyone, come even close to kicking anyone, have never cut anyone up etc and always keep passing left to left and try and keep out the way as much as possible until he settles. even at somerford when he really truly lost the plot i managed to keep finding a space to move in to so as not to disrupt other people.

and TBH i dont see the issue with that. either your horse is such an angel it wont be bothered by mine going nuclear, or if it is, well then you are in no place to comment on him not being well trained anough, because yours is only doing the same-becomming distracted and getting upset!

try and be a bit more tolerant some of you!

 

[Tempi]

its not as easy as *traiing them to behave in a warm up* though is it......because if thats the only situation your horse is sharp in, the only way to cure it/improve it, is to keep going to warm ups.

having sj'd,evented and shown, prior to doing dressage, im well used to getting in my bubble and not really worrying about what other peoples horses are up to, as long as they arent actually barging in to me, i can work round it.

theres always one or two going inside out and upside down in the warm up (not always mine!!!) and i usually give the rider a sypathetic smile and give way to them all the time, even if technically my right of way, ie i try and make their life a bit easier ao they have maximum chance to settle their horse.

have to say that whilst mine can be loopy, iv never ran in to anyone, come even close to kicking anyone, have never cut anyone up etc and always keep passing left to left and try and keep out the way as much as possible until he settles. even at somerford when he really truly lost the plot i managed to keep finding a space to move in to so as not to disrupt other people.

and TBH i dont see the issue with that. either your horse is such an angel it wont be bothered by mine going nuclear, or if it is, well then you are in no place to comment on him not being well trained anough, because yours is only doing the same-becomming distracted and getting upset!

try and be a bit more tolerant some of you!

Well written!

 

[Leg_end]

As prince33sparkle says, it's really rather difficult to train your horse for a warm up environment unless you're in one! I'm at a very quiet yard and haven't got the opportunity to 'train' for multiple horses working in with me so, at our first show tomorrow I am hoping for the best!! I've done all I can do, told the organisers I'm riding a baby at his first show and asked for an earlier time so if we do have any issues the warm up should be quiet. BUT if other people are inconsiderate and canter right up your bum/ride far too close them, AFAIK they will have to deal with the consequences of their actions!

My old horse used to get so wound up in SJ warm ups when people canter past really close so I used to do what others have done and do some warm up somewhere else. However, have those who ride inconsiderately considered the impact of their riding on those warming up? In my experience, no. So for those who may have an issue or two I would maybe give them a bit of sympathy and put yourself in their position.. There may be a reason for the horses behaviour so maybe take a look around the warm up first and tut towards the person causing the issue.. Not the poor person trying to deal with it!

 

[Saratoga]

All down to the riders manners. I went to a BE event recently and in both the dressage and XC warm up encountered a girl riding a stallion. She had a disk on his bridle, and loudly announced to everyone that she was on a stallion and everyone had to stay out of her way. She then proceeded to ride directly at people, into their working in space, no manners whatsoever but shouted at anyone in her way. The stallion behaved impeccably, shame the rider didn't follow suit.

I have no issues with a horse going loopy in the warm up, as long as the rider stays out of the way and deals with it competently. If they crash into me more than once, or make no attempt to not affect anyone else's warm up then I do have a problem and will say something.

 

[mystiandsunny]

Thought.... for any of you saying 'I'd hate it if someone elses horse wound mine up', well, shouldn't your horse also be listening to you, and ignoring the other horses, regardless of their antics? If the same horse can cope with most other things then shouldn't 'wild' horses be just another thing we get our horses used to before taking them to comps?

try and be a bit more tolerant some of you!

If they crash into me more than once, I do have a problem and will say something.

If 600kg+ of misbehaving horse crashes into ME on my 14hh 318kg pony - I won't just have a problem, my pony will be injured so we won't be able to take part - and that's if she manages to keep to her feet and only steps on herself. But that's ok is it, because you're incapable of teaching your horse to behave in warm-ups so I should just forgive you?

My TB has been permanently affected by another horse's bad manners. Someone used us to stop once, ramming their horse up her backside with sufficient force that we were jolted forwards and she hurt her back. Prior to that she was perfect around other horses - now she tenses if they get too close behind her and will kick out if almost touching - not from bad temperament, but because it hurt, and she's scared of it happening again.

 

[Saratoga]

I do agree with you. All I am saying is horses are unpredictable animals and any horse can let rip with no warning and sometimes these things just happen. But if they horse is continually doing it, and the rider hasn't done something about it straight away then it is a problem. As I said in my previous post, my horse was very tense and upset in the warm up for about 2 years following us being crashed in to when he was a baby, so I do know where you are coming from!

 

[Supanova]

I haven't read all the replies but I think its easy to say this until you've been sat on a horse that is misbehaving in the warm-up. I took my 9 yr old to an unaff dressage a couple of months ago and it was the first time she'd gone out with her 4 yr old mate who was still in the trailer. Anyway she was an absolute nightmare, rearing, bucking, napping - so badly at one point that i had to jump off because i feared she was going to nap into the actual dressage arena!! My horse isn't normally like that and I can control her, but on this occasion it was very difficult! Yes i tried to keep out of people's way but sometimes its easier said than done.

 

[diggerbez]

its not as easy as *traiing them to behave in a warm up* though is it......because if thats the only situation your horse is sharp in, the only way to cure it/improve it, is to keep going to warm ups.

having sj'd,evented and shown, prior to doing dressage, im well used to getting in my bubble and not really worrying about what other peoples horses are up to, as long as they arent actually barging in to me, i can work round it.

theres always one or two going inside out and upside down in the warm up (not always mine!!!) and i usually give the rider a sypathetic smile and give way to them all the time, even if technically my right of way, ie i try and make their life a bit easier ao they have maximum chance to settle their horse.

have to say that whilst mine can be loopy, iv never ran in to anyone, come even close to kicking anyone, have never cut anyone up etc and always keep passing left to left and try and keep out the way as much as possible until he settles. even at somerford when he really truly lost the plot i managed to keep finding a space to move in to so as not to disrupt other people.

and TBH i dont see the issue with that. either your horse is such an angel it wont be bothered by mine going nuclear, or if it is, well then you are in no place to comment on him not being well trained anough, because yours is only doing the same-becomming distracted and getting upset!

try and be a bit more tolerant some of you!

well said PS....
i think really that we have to distinguish between people being delibarately obnoxious and crashing into people/trying to distract people deliberately and people whose horse freak because they are scared.... i would never do the first but i've certainly been on the horse thats done the second and its not very pleasant! at somerford BE on saturday i was working in quietly minding my own business when a horse suddenly came head on at me- V (who doesn't really like being cramped by other horses) freaked- he fully bolted with his ears up my nose and performed high school leaps at the same time. i certainly nearly crashed into several people and it wasn't deliberate- my horse had been scared by someone else and then reacted badly- so whose fault is this incident?? he then went back to working quietly so its not like i was a continual nuisance. i am very picky about shows that i go to and won't go to one where i think the working in will be too cramped- but seriously some people on here need to get a reality check- not everybody on the horse thats leaping about is doing it deliberately/knew it was going to happen- try and be a bit more tolerant FFS!

 

[TheMule]

i am very picky about shows that i go to and won't go to one where i think the working in will be too cramped- but seriously some people on here need to get a reality check- not everybody on the horse thats leaping about is doing it deliberately/knew it was going to happen- try and be a bit more tolerant FFS!

Horses are unpredictable and yes, do occiaisonally do silly things with little thought for self-preservation- I'm certainly not alone in having experienced this.
But what if you know your horse is likely to do something naughty- IE, it's been naughty in the warm up previously, it comes off the lorry wide eyed and is naughty on the way over to the warm up...... Is its subsequent bad behaviour unpredictable, or actually entirely predictable?

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

but again-what should we do? lose entry fees and diesel and go home just to keep every bugger else happy? how exactly is that ever going to teach the horse to settle better in the warm up?! easy to say it if you've never been sat on it.........................

or should i retire my potential GP horse because he's clearly too badly trained to be dobbin donkey for the entire warm up!!!!!

reality check needed...................

mystiandsunny-did you actually read the bit where i said iv NEVER crashed in to/kicked/rammed/ etc ANYONE EVER and that no matter which way up im facing i ALWAYS find my own space? i was asking you to be more tolerant of people that are genuinely trying to keep out the way and not be a nuicance.by al means rip the rude people a new one, i wouldnt tolerate being rammed either.

 

[TheMule]

but again-what should we do? lose entry fees and diesel and go home just to keep every bugger else happy? how exactly is that ever going to teach the horse to settle better in the warm up?! easy to say it if you've never been sat on it.........................

or should i retire my potential GP horse because he's clearly too badly trained to be dobbin donkey for the entire warm up!!!!!

reality check needed...................

mystiandsunny-did you actually read the bit where i said iv NEVER crashed in to/kicked/rammed/ etc ANYONE EVER and that no matter which way up im facing i ALWAYS find my own space? i was asking you to be more tolerant of people that are genuinely trying to keep out the way and not be a nuicance.by al means rip the rude people a new one, i wouldnt tolerate being rammed either.

PS- It's not always about you and I don't think anyone's posts here were ever referring to you directly. Mine certainly wasn't, it was actually based on MY personal past experience when yes, actually, I have been 'sat on it'.

What should you do? Make a judgement call- is it safe and fair to enter that warm up area? Is it necessary at this precise time? Is there anywhere else I could go? Is there a lungeline I could use to get the first 10mins out of it?

I don't for a moment think going home is the answer but you must remember that everyone else has paid the same money, put in the same preparation time and is also hoping to do well for themselves and it's just not fair to jeopardise their shot at it through your own horse's bad behaviour.

 

[dressagecrazy]

I've been known to stick a red ribbon on my horses tails in warm ups just to hopefully stop ignorant buggers running into us.
I've also had a bloke once complain that I was riding to close to him it really upset me as I'm uber over cautious in W-Ups & always stay out of the way of others to the point I sometimes effect my own W-up.
I was over 4ft away when I passed him. Thankfully the organiser was stood watching my W-Up & stuck up for me, this bloke was obviously suffering from some sort of problem & was competing against me.
it upset me though & did through me just before I went in to do my test I won the 2nd one against him though.

I do however think that it is un-fair to take a horse in a W-up that is likely to cause upset. But I guess there a people who are sensitive to others & those who are not!

 

[millitiger]

What should you do? Make a judgement call- is it safe and fair to enter that warm up area? Is it necessary at this precise time? Is there anywhere else I could go? Is there a lungeline I could use to get the first 10mins out of it?

I don't for a moment think going home is the answer but you must remember that everyone else has paid the same money, put in the same preparation time and is also hoping to do well for themselves and it's just not fair to jeopardise their shot at it through your own horse's bad behaviour.

this is it exactly.

I have 'sat on it' and I dealt with it by not setting foot in a warm up for a long while and when I did, I chose the warm up carefully- I wait until it is quiet and pretty empty and some days that meant I was in there after my class and not before.

If it started to get too busy I would take her back out to the car park again so she didn't get the chance to blow her top as imo the more it happens the more it becomes a habit.

Having been on both sides of the fence, I don't think it is fair (or safe) for a horse to be turning itself inside out in a warm up, whatever the reason or excuse.
Yes, if it is out of the blue or a moment of high jinks, but I don't think it's acceptable to enter the warm up knowing your horse is likely to practise airs above the ground.

 

[HayleyUK]

I think its more how the rider handles the horse being a nob than anything else TBH.

I've been in warm-ups where horses have started to mess about etc - I've tried to stay out of their way and give them space but at the same time expect them to try and stay out of my way/find some space and be fairly calm about the whole thing like PS is saying.
I do have a problem if your horse starts chucking itself about, you let it throw itself in my direction and then start balling at it/smacking it and generally making it worse. Its not helpful to me, or you.

My biggest bugbear are people who simply don't know the rules - left to left and walk takes the inside track regardless. I had a woman mutter about idiots who didnt know the rules because I dared to be on the inside track letting her take the track whilst she trotted and I was walking. It annoys the hell out of me when you can see I'm on a circle - staying out of the way and you decide to ride the same size circle as me, on the opposite rein in the same space when there is a whole arena for you to use. Its just rude.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

continually taking the horse out of, and back in to, the situation, IMO will only make it worse, as they never learn to settle and work through it, never learn to get on with the job in hand, and always expect to be treated with kid gloves.

if the horse is fine in the lorry park and fine in a quiet warm up, then i ask again-how do you teach it to settle in a busy warm up? without actually going in to a busy warm up?!

clearly its not all about me, thats why i said "what are WE meant to do", as obviously CS is a good example of this sort of horse, but i also know not the only one.

 

[PapaFrita]

have to say that whilst mine can be loopy, iv never ran in to anyone, come even close to kicking anyone, have never cut anyone up etc and always keep passing left to left and try and keep out the way as much as possible until he settles. even at somerford when he really truly lost the plot i managed to keep finding a space to move in to so as not to disrupt other people.

Were you not asked to walk in a corner because someone complained? Were you not exercising your horse in a busy collecting ring on a day you weren't even competing?

and TBH i dont see the issue with that. either your horse is such an angel it wont be bothered by mine going nuclear, or if it is, well then you are in no place to comment on him not being well trained anough, because yours is only doing the same-becomming distracted and getting upset!

try and be a bit more tolerant some of you!

How convenient never to be held accountable. What a horribly selfish attitude. You're not the only person who has trained and paid to be at that show, but clearly in your mind you're the only one who matters.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

"Were you not asked to walk in a corner because someone complained?"


yes, but neither myself, sister, trainer, any of my friends, or another experienced HHO poster, could see WHY they complained, i kept out the way completely. some people like complaining for the sake of it..........................................

"Were you not exercising your horse in a busy collecting ring on a day you weren't even competing? "

completely BD legal, completely fine with the showground, completely fine with the steward and other people were doing the same all day (some on equally lit up horses i might add).

please point out why that is relevant?

"How convenient never to be held accountable. What a horribly selfish attitude. You're not the only person who has trained and paid to be at that show, but clearly in your mind you're the only one who matters. "


clearly not true. if that was so, i wouldnt make ANY effort to keep put the way would i. i was simply pointing out that it cannot be one rule for one, and one rule for another, as have several other people, but if you were going to pick on anyone it WOULD be me wouldnt it.......................................

 

[millitiger]

continually taking the horse out of, and back in to, the situation, IMO will only make it worse, as they never learn to settle and work through it, never learn to get on with the job in hand, and always expect to be treated with kid gloves.

if the horse is fine in the lorry park and fine in a quiet warm up, then i ask again-how do you teach it to settle in a busy warm up? without actually going in to a busy warm up?!

It worked brilliantly for my horse and definitely did not make it worse- I think sometimes you have to think outside the box; horses learn by repetition and by the horse repeatedly being naughty in the warm up, imo the horse quickly gets into a habit of being naughty at shows.

Certainly with mine it quickly became a horrid cycle and it works far better to remove her from the situation before she has a chance to get worried or excited and then take her back in after a few minutes- gradually she has become better and better with the busier warm ups.

You also don't have to be in the situation to work on it- the same way a horse scared/naughty to clip isn't simply held down and clipped a lot, you desensitise bit by bit- first the noise, then the sight then the vibration etc before exposing the horse to all of the parts together.

 

[superpony]

I can see both sides of the question as I have a super well behaved 14hh and a naughty, nappy tb with an attitude problem!!

If I am in the warm up and somebody is on a problem horse I quite happily try and keep away from it, give them as much space as possible and always help out if asked, i.e. giving a lead into a spooky warm up to a young horse etc. I do not mind if they are 'in control'. However on the other side of the coin I have had people on 17hh wbs completely out of control, totally overhorsed and frankly dangerous to everyone in the warm up. Since I am on a 14hh pony and as others have mentioned if someone runs into him it would hurt him alot and after having one of these 17hh out of control people nearly run into the back of me I was not impressed!!

I have no problem with people on young, green or naughty horses (like my tb) who can manage them, stay out of peoples way, are in control and don't cause major issues with other peoples warm up. The problem I have are with people who are totally overhorsed and doing the wall of death around the warm up without any consideration for the other people warming up!!

 

[dressager]

I think it is mostly possible to keep your horse under control in the warm up with good training and correct riding. Every horse has a way to channel the energy, whether its by riding more forwards, a little deeper, with more exaggerated flexion etc. If this isn't possible then its largely a training issue and perhaps the horse is behind (and not in front!) of the aids.

I am yet to watch GP riders warming up and their horses charging around totally out of control, and at times at big shows there's been around 15 huge horses in the same warm up! If its possible for the hottest of the hot horses (Alf and even Valegro when he was a youngster) to warm up sensibly the majority of the time shouldn't we be aiming for the same with our easier to ride horses? Surely it comes down to a riding/training issue? Not to mention the bigger the show the more scary the arenas! And these horses don't generally see the world by hacking!

There are exceptions to every rule but I would be seriously worried about taking a horse in a warm up where I felt I was putting other people or myself at risk. Do your ground work at home, rallies, clinics whatever.

 

[Mbronze]

I find a red ribbon and an 'excuse me' seems to work quite fine in most warm ups, and if my horse is pratting about I would always turn to the rider nearest me and apologise. Its just good manners

 

[becca1305]

Oh for goodness sake quit picking on Princess Sparkle... as she says she has never rammed into anyone etc etc when you enter a competition you accept that you are going to be placing your horse in an environment where there are going to be lots of horses warming up next to each other some of which may be affected by the atmosphere and it is your responsibility as a rider to handle that and ride accordingly...if you are struggling with this perhaps it is you that needs more practice!
Rider rudeness and horses so out of control that they pose a danger to others is surely where the line of tolerance must be drawn...but complaining about a hyperactive horse...seriously grow a pair! by stressing/getting annoyed about a bouncy horse you are only going to make your own horse worse and I often find riders using other people as a good excuse to explain why they havent/ or may not do as well as they would have liked.
Yes its irritating when a hyper horse puts yours off but if they arent so near you as to pose a danger and your horse reacts then surely it would react similarily to another horse cantering past and therefore isnt "in the zone" enough anyway. Situations like this are always "in an ideal world...." ones but all of us know horses arent machines and that the world is rarely ideal, its how you deal with it that matters.
Disappointed by the level of whinginess from some riders and lack of tolerance
Oh and mine is always well behaved in the warm up (& I am very grateful for it), although she is put off sometimes by other horses when I havent got her full concentration so no my opinion is not biased.

 

[Thistle]

I have read all of this post and at NO point is it about PS. She chose to take it personally despite being told the post wasn't about her in particular.

PS got herself involved!!!