Dressage warm-ups and out of control horses

Oh right so the snarky post about her schooling in a warm up (god forbid!) and following comments werent picking on her at all .. At no point did she say it was about her and indeed used the word "we", but by merely commenting she naturally deserved a personal attack of bitchiness (dont bother acting innocent about the comments cant imagine anyone being daft enough not to see through that charade). I never claimed to believe this thread was about her im merely appalled by the posts after she commented which in my opinion was picking on her. Im astounded by the apparent immaturity of some adults both in terms of intolerance and childish bitchiness.
 
we were at a BE event recently and there was someone schooling an 'explosive' horse in the dressage warm up. it was quite obviously not competing and was doing all sorts of gymnastics round the warm up. I said to mum there and then if it was still being ridden in there when we went to warm up I would have a quiet word with the stewards. At the end of the day I had done a huge amount of work to get there and spent an awful lot of money in the process.....

that said horses are not machines and even the dopyest horse can have an outburst but those who know that the horses will be like that every time need to either go back to basics and sort it out or get up an hour earlier and ride it at home first. When we frst started taking autumn out I would be the first person at the show and on her for about 45 mins before anyone started rolling up

Ive had horses who have acted both ways at comps so i can sympathise and yes whilst you have to keep plugging away at it some manners in staying out of peoples way/or only going to places when the warm up is quiet would be greatly appreciated.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
"Were you not asked to walk in a corner because someone complained?"

yes, but neither myself, sister, trainer, any of my friends, or another experienced HHO poster, could see WHY they complained, i kept out the way completely. some people like complaining for the sake of it..........................................
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Well that's the most fatuous statement of the day. If people are complaining for the sake of it why are they not complaining about anyone else?

"Were you not exercising your horse in a busy collecting ring on a day you weren't even competing? "

completely BD legal, completely fine with the showground, completely fine with the steward and other people were doing the same all day (some on equally lit up horses i might add).

please point out why that is relevant?
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It's relevant because it illustrates perfectly your self-interest. You could've exercised later in the day, when the collecting ring was quieter, but chose not to.

May I suggest, as others have done, that you stop making yourself the subject of every thread on HHO. I try my hardest to avoid you, but you seem to turn up in every thread, like Droopy dog in that cartoon. It's on Youtube.

"How convenient never to be held accountable. What a horribly selfish attitude. You're not the only person who has trained and paid to be at that show, but clearly in your mind you're the only one who matters. "

clearly not true. if that was so, i wouldnt make ANY effort to keep put the way would i. i was simply pointing out that it cannot be one rule for one, and one rule for another, as have several other people, but if you were going to pick on anyone it WOULD be me wouldnt it.......................................
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Well, how hard you're actually trying seems to be a matter of opinion, doesn't it? Yours, and then the people you've upset in the collecting ring.
 
TheMule said:
Horses are unpredictable and yes, do occiaisonally do silly things with little thought for self-preservation- I'm certainly not alone in having experienced this.
But what if you know your horse is likely to do something naughty- IE, it's been naughty in the warm up previously, it comes off the lorry wide eyed and is naughty on the way over to the warm up...... Is its subsequent bad behaviour unpredictable, or actually entirely predictable?
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thats unacceptable then- as that is a person behaving like a nob and being selfish :)
 
Ok guys, THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT PRINCESS SPARKLE - ok?

It was about dressage - as a sport where we value training and obedience above all else, is it REALLY acceptable to have horses exploding in the warm-up (regularly - not the odd accident that can't be predicted, doesn't usually happen and is over quickly) beyond intro and prelim level?

I have just spent the better part of a year teaching my very spooky, totally loopy (rearing, spinning, running, throwing self almost on floor with fright) pony to cope quietly with warm-up and show situations. We started SJ (stronger bit allowed!) and learnt that shows can be fun and that you need to concentrate (or you hit the jump lol), then we found very quiet venues for Dressage, then busier, then busier etc. All along I LISTENED to her - and if it was getting too much, we left for a break so she never lost it and misbehaved. I think we bucked once due to pure fear as an enormous horse nearly ran us over and ditched its rider. We conquered her fears of hacking and hacking solo so she could cope on her own in new situations, we hired schools and went to new places with friends to re-create show situations. Yes it's been hair-raising at times, but I feel a great sense of achievement in each and every ride now that I truly get to enjoy her, WHEREVER we are. It's called TRAINING. And if we are ever lucky enough to get to any sort of championships, we'll be playing recordings while we ride of loud speakers, of crowds and re-creating all that in an indoor school BEFORE WE GO - until she's coping ok with it, so we're most likely to do ok on the day. Isn't that normal? And after all that work, and time, is it fair if others crash into us and injure us, because they haven't bothered?
 
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becca1305 said:
Oh right so the snarky post about her schooling in a warm up (god forbid!) and following comments werent picking on her at all .. At no point did she say it was about her and indeed used the word "we", but by merely commenting she naturally deserved a personal attack of bitchiness (dont bother acting innocent about the comments cant imagine anyone being daft enough not to see through that charade). I never claimed to believe this thread was about her im merely appalled by the posts after she commented which in my opinion was picking on her. Im astounded by the apparent immaturity of some adults both in terms of intolerance and childish bitchiness.
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If Princess Sparkle posts OPENLY on an OPEN forum about her (entirely unrepentant) antics at shows, in training etc, she will HAVE to man up and accept that people will comment. ESPECIALLY when she leaps onto random threads and uses herself as an example. Riders FAR greater repute than PS get criticised on HHO ALL the time for all sorts of things varying from questionable training methods, riding their horses too hard, use of the whip, and even the position of their numnahs. These include (off the top of my head) Anky, Ellen Whitaker, Zara Phillips, Mark Todd, Harry Mead, Olly Townend APMcCoy, Ruby Walsh, even Katy Price and more. You don't get any of their mates coming on and accusing everyone who comments unfavourably of being 'bitter and jealous', do you? If she HADN'T brought herself onto the thread(s) she would've saved herself all the 'personal attacks'.
 
Oh right so she should have to hide herself in a corner and not offer an opinion on threads or else open herself to personal attack. There is a big fat line between criticism and unnecessary bitchiness and in my opinion that line was well crossed. Besides all i hear on here is advocation that criticism should be constructive...
Considering PS and I have never met in person since she was in school with me a few years above and we never spoke then and since have never met in a social context or spoken otherwise I think the term "mate" is completely unfounded. I merely dislike seeing anyone being treated as though we were all back in secondary school!
 
"If Princess Sparkle posts OPENLY on an OPEN forum about her (entirely unrepentant) antics at shows, in training etc, she will HAVE to man up and accept that people will comment."


sorry.............wasnt there a HUGE thread about how actually we wernt allowed to comment on someones daughter, even though the vids were on the open forum.......or is my memory going............hmmmmm..........
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
"If Princess Sparkle posts OPENLY on an OPEN forum about her (entirely unrepentant) antics at shows, in training etc, she will HAVE to man up and accept that people will comment."


sorry.............wasnt there a HUGE thread about how actually we wernt allowed to comment on someones daughter, even though the vids were on the open forum.......or is my memory going............hmmmmm..........
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The videos you refer to were only on the forum because a third party took them off Youtube. They actually contributed nothing to the thread as they had no context and I said so at the time. At length.
YOU on the other hand post photos about yourself, comment freely on your horse's behaviour and your training techniques and then bring them up repeatedly on other threads. As such, you're fair game. Man up.
Out of interest, would you be OK with it if someone had videoed/photographed your horse throwing shapes at your show and posted them on HHO to use as an example?
 
becca1305 said:
Oh right so she should have to hide herself in a corner and not offer an opinion on threads or else open herself to personal attack.
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Perhaps she shouldn't start every other post with the words 'I assume you mean me...'

There is a big fat line between criticism and unnecessary bitchiness and in my opinion that line was well crossed. Besides all i hear on here is advocation that criticism should be constructive...
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Can you be more specific about the bitchiness?

I merely dislike seeing anyone being treated as though we were all back in secondary school!
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And I find unsportsmanlike behaviour and massive self-absorption repellent. What's your point?
 
PS, I've just read the whole thread and really didn't think it was aimed at you.
As to what I'd do if I had a horse who threw serious shapes only in a busy warm-up arena...
I'd either go to a training show, or I'd ask all my friends to come to my place and work their horses at once in the arena with me on the norty horse, for as long as it took. Repeatedly, if necessary. I would NOT go to a BD comp (or any other comp actually, unaff or affiliated) as a non-competitor just to try to iron out the kinks in a very tricky horse, possibly jeopardising the warm-up and perhaps the safety of other competitors... sorry. I just don't agree with it. Everyone else has, as said above, paid the same money, done the work etc... it doesn't matter to them whether you think your horse is "potential GP" or not, just whether they can quietly get on with their warm-up or not!
 
Out hunting which to be fair is a pretty exciting environment there are very strict etiquette rules on badly behaved horses and you either sit very quietly at the back or you go home. I am not sure why its tolerated so much in dressage - maybe its because it is tolerated that there is a problem and more effort would go into good manners and riding if there was someone who took charge of the arena?
 
come on PF, you know the post im talking about-hector/thistle/daughter/videos/NMT.

its exactly the same situation, and whilst i dont care, or indeed need to man up, it should not be one rule for one and one for another......

K-please listen, he does NOT do it at home! whether there are 5 or 50 strange horses in his arena or not, he does not do it at home!!!!! he only does it at a SHOW!and how do i know that, because i host busy 3 day clinics at my yard, before you ask, so i know that *his* arena being busy doesnt bother him in the slightest.

training show????? no such thing for dressage AFAIK..........

i dont think i have much more to say on this, ill just carry on keeping out the way and getting on with it, and if thats unsporting, or repellant, so be it.
 
Tempi said:
Also people have to take young horses out and start somewhere, and unfortately not all young horses just go out and plod around a warmup and dont care about any of whats going on around them!
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Totally agree with this!

A friend took her 4yo out for his first competition - local unaffiliated dressage (he had been in a collecting ring on home livery yard a couple of times and was well behaved). He was great in collecting ring at dressage competition - despite the best efforts of some - riding too close/at him:eek:

Went in to do his test and he went a bit babyish - nothing dreadful as wasn't bucking/rearing/carrying on, just felt and looked a it tense, just reverting back to being a baby, probably because he had to leave his friends.

At end of test friend was very happy as he had stayed in arena, done everything when he was asked and they had both stayed together for the 4.5 of so minutes that P10 takes. She was horrified when the judge asked her how old he was, and then told her he was far too green to be out competing!! Surely that is the rider's decision?! As she said he behaved himself and it hasn't blown his brain. You could understand if he had reared, spun and dumped her mid test but he was very brave and did what he was asked!

Surely it was another lesson in his education, and how are they ever going to be ready if you don't get out and about?!

My, then 12yo ex-racehorse, was far worse in his first outing - got very stressed and jumped out of the arena :D. In front of the same judge as well!
 
I am not trawling back through threads to find quotes on which to disect and point out which part was bitchy when it is perfectly apparent.
My point is merely that I would have thought (and am disappointed that this is clearly not the case) that any self-respecting adult would have put that kind of behaviour behind them...although I hear when one hits mid-life crisis strange things such as attempts at reverse aging happen.:)
 
BD have a rule which covers this

N.B. If, at any time during a competition run under British Dressage Rules, a horse is seen to be behaving
in a dangerous manner which could threaten the safety of other competitors or spectators,
a Steward, Organiser or Regional Development Officer is authorised to request the removal of this horse

Don't be afraid to speak to the steward or organiser if you feel safety is being comprimised
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
come on PF, you know the post im talking about-hector/thistle/daughter/videos/NMT.
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Oh THAT one. So hard to keep track when I don't really pay attention to what you or NMT say...

its exactly the same situation, and whilst i dont care, or indeed need to man up, it should not be one rule for one and one for another......
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Well, it would only be the same if you posted videos of yourself training WITH a trainer, NOT asking for advice, then someone with less or just about equal experience came on and told you CS wasn't working properly and clearly not tracking up, then that he definitely won't make GP, but might be ready for Elem later in the year....
And then again it would only be the same if Hector were really naughty in the collecting ring, if Thistle were totally unrepentant (because it's not against the rules) and then hijacked every other post refering back to those videos.....
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
K-please listen, he does NOT do it at home! whether there are 5 or 50 strange horses in his arena or not, he does not do it at home!!!!! he only does it at a SHOW!and how do i know that, because i host busy 3 day clinics at my yard, before you ask, so i know that *his* arena being busy doesnt bother him in the slightest.

training show????? no such thing for dressage AFAIK..........
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Oh, okay, I didn't realise that he doesn't do it at home even if the arena is busy. Fair enough.
I've seen dressage training shows, with pick-a-test, have-a-go or whatever... low key, but it would at least be a busy environment away from home.
anyway, stepping away from the thread now, i wasn't trying to be critical, just trying to make suggestions, which you've obv already thought of!
 
becca1305 said:
I am not trawling back through threads to find quotes on which to disect and point out which part was bitchy when it is perfectly apparent.
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Well, if you can't be bothered, then I can't either. We'll just agree to disagree, shall we?

My point is merely that I would have thought (and am disappointed that this is clearly not the case) that any self-respecting adult would have put that kind of behaviour behind them...although I hear when one hits mid-life crisis strange things such as attempts at reverse aging happen.:)
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Yes, I would've thought PS would've grown out of it by now...
 
I'm sorry but I view this as a completely pointless and pathetic thread.

Every single person on here who comments obviously lives in a dream world.

Most people don't set out to go into a warm up and their horse **** around. Don't you think it would be SO much simpler for the rider if the horse would just settle down to the work that was asked for? Well, YES.
There are also many shows which will only allow you to ride in the designated area and if that happens to be a 20X40 with 10 other horses what choice do you have?


Horses are HORSES, they are not MACHINES. As long as the rider is doing their best to control the situation what else can you do?
 
wow I didnt realise I was going to reach middle aged in my 20s..major FML!..il keep an eye out for desire to dress in school clothes....but I dont smoke so hey maybe Il be lucky and my midlife crisis will hold off until im 25 eh?

yes agree to disagree.. I dislike the company of 'mature' adults snarking at people in a cliquish fashion...you apparently do :).

I cannot be bothered further to discuss immature comments.
 
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For the person above who said there weren't training shows in dressage:

- We have 'clear round' dressage days at a couple of venues near me.
- There are also 'ride test, review with judge, re-ride test' days at a couple more venues.
- Local (v successful - PSG+) riders use our local unaffil Prelim as 'practice' - competing HC of course, on their young horses. Always in control every step of the way, usually start off going at the beginning so arena empty (and you can request this at that venue), always beautiful and it's lovely to watch them ride.

And I'm just answering a question - not having a go!
 
mystiandsunny said:
For the person above who said there weren't training shows in dressage:

- We have 'clear round' dressage days at a couple of venues near me.
- There are also 'ride test, review with judge, re-ride test' days at a couple more venues.
- Local (v successful - PSG+) riders use our local unaffil Prelim as 'practice' - competing HC of course, on their young horses. Always in control every step of the way, usually start off going at the beginning so arena empty (and you can request this at that venue), always beautiful and it's lovely to watch them ride.

And I'm just answering a question - not having a go!
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Would be lovely to have these round here! :D
 
becca1305 said:
wow I didnt realise I was going to reach middle aged in my 20s..major FML!..il keep an eye out for desire to dress in school clothes....but I dont smoke so hey maybe Il be lucky and my midlife crisis will hold off until im 25 eh?

yes agree to disagree.. I dislike the company of 'mature' adults snarking at people in a cliquish fashion...you apparently do :).

I cannot be bothered further to discuss immature comments.
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I wasn't talking about you, but if the cap fits (or perhaps you got your logins mixed up?)

Pot. Kettle. Black. Night night :)
 
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PapaFrita said:
I wasn't talking about you, but if the cap fits (or perhaps you got your logins mixed up?)

Pot. Kettle. Black. Night night :)
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"My point is merely that I would have thought (and am disappointed that this is clearly not the case) that any self-respecting adult would have put that kind of behaviour behind them...although I hear when one hits mid-life crisis strange things such as attempts at reverse aging happen.

Yes, I would've thought PS would've grown out of it by now... "
__________________


Oh dear... no I wasnt talking about me.... PS is in her twenties...dear dear amnesia must be such a b***h.

Login details? I can remember them thankyou..amnesia does not usually strike in your teens.
 
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becca1305 said:
Oh dear... no I wasnt talking about me.... PS is in her twenties...dear dear amnesia must be such a b***h.

Login details? I can remember them thankyou..amnesia does not usually strike in your teens.
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Aww, sweetie, it must've been you using the first person pronoun that confused me, LOL.
Do you know what a pronoun is or shall I explain?
I find your hypocrisy hilarious. I don't EVER resort to personal insults; I don't have to because my arguments are well reasoned and have support. And if you're going to accuse someone of bitchiness and immaturity, you would do well not to fall into the same trap yourself. Ever heard of the moral high ground??
 
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PapaFrita said:
Aww, sweetie, it must've been you using the first person pronoun that confused me, LOL.
Do you know what a pronoun is or shall I explain?
I find your hypocrisy hilarious. I don't EVER resort to personal insults; I don't have to because my arguements are well reasoned and have support. And if you're going to accuse someone of bitchiness and immaturity, you would do well not to fall into the same trap yourself. Ever heard of the moral high ground??
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yes thankyou, and actually I was using the first person because your statement which implied (whether on purpose or not) that PS could be considered middle-aged also applied to me considering I am younger than her and thus have "middle age" to look forward to in my twenties.

And my comments are all factual not personal either you went down the route of asking to identify the transparency of the bitchiness in comments, I merely followed up with coincidental facts regarding aging...ironic, and amusing that you should conclude (after accusing PS of doing so) that this directly relates to you when in actual fact I have no way of knowing your age.

Moral highground? oh no I quickly learnt that it would be no use so resorted to communicating on a level that I thought you would understand :).

Now I am off to get some shuteye busy day tomorrow and whatnot plus I believe communicating with social undesirables does little for me.
 
becca1305 said:
yes thankyou, and actually I was using the first person because your statement which implied (whether on purpose or not) that PS could be considered middle-aged also applied to me considering I am younger than her and thus have "middle age" to look forward to in my twenties.

And my comments are all factual not personal either you went down the route of asking to identify the transparency of the bitchiness in comments, I merely followed up with coincidental facts regarding aging...ironic, and amusing that you should conclude (after accusing PS of doing so) that this directly relates to you when in actual fact I have no way of knowing your age.

Moral highground? oh no I quickly learnt that it would be no use so resorted to communicating on a level that I thought you would understand :).

Now I am off to get some shuteye busy day tomorrow and whatnot plus I believe communicating with social undesirables does little for me.
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Not even God knows what you're talking about. Your post is incomprehensible.
But you are a hypocrite.
 
PapaFrita said:
Not even God knows what you're talking about. Your post is incomprehensible.
But you are a hypocrite.
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See... this is why I said about sticking to a level I thought you could understand..although I admit "dumbing down" isnt my forte.

gosh computers are dangerous things I really shouldnt leave mine on whilst getting the puppy ready for sleep time! I have no personal issue with you I just dislike seeing people being a bit horrid to someone who from all I can gather has worked hard to get her horse to the level its at from nothing and is doing her best with what shes got. I wish you every success with your competitions just as I do for PS.
 
becca1305 said:
See... this is why I said about sticking to a level I thought you could understand..although I admit "dumbing down" isnt my forte.
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Oh, I think you're managing splendidly to be exactly the kind of person you are accusing ME of being.

gosh computers are dangerous things I really shouldnt leave mine on whilst getting the puppy ready for sleep time! I have no personal issue with you I just dislike seeing people being a bit horrid to someone who from all I can gather has worked hard to get her horse to the level its at from nothing and is doing her best with what shes got. I wish you every success with your competitions just as I do for PS.
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A lot of us work hard. VERY hard even. Some of us do it without posting every step of the way, without needing constant approval and admiration. And most of us manage to maintain a degree of humility and NOT assume every other post in CR is about us. Including this one.
 
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