Driving age!

[ QUOTE ]
Not getting into this discussion, but as an aside regarding costs, the cost of your lesson includes the instructors time, vehicle fuel, maintenance, tax etc etc. Now think about how much an hours riding lesson on a horse comparable to your instructors car would be - we would be talking a schoolmaster here, and a BHSII. I haven't had a lesson for years, but I bet it would be more than £18.50.

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot more! At the riding school I used to go to around here it costs £33 for a group lesson and £45 for a private lesson (I stopped going when they put the prices up as I just couldn't afford it). Driving lessons round here cost about £22 I think - really not that bad when you consider the cost of fuel and the higher maintenance costs on driving school cars.
 
In reply to conniegirl, I think you're right. Old people are an absolute danger to themselves and others. I think they should be made to sit some kind of test/assesment (not a full driving test) after a certain age to see if they are still capable of being out driving on the roads.

I did my driving lessons when I was 20 and I passed within two months. I only had lessons with an instructor but when I passed my test I continued to drive out with either my mum or dad (who is a lorry driver and so knows the importance of good driving) until I felt I had enough experience to venture out alone. Even then I was only doing short runs and working myself up to going new places. Also, over here we operate an 'R' plate system which you HAVE to display 'R' plates for a year and you are restricted to a maximum speed of 45mph.

I do agree the test should be made more difficult, stop the cocky little boy/girl racers.

Oh yes and I also think you should be restricted on what size engine you can drive. Someone who has just passed their test does not have the experience to drive a 2.5 turbo diesel. It should be like with motorbikes (who are restrited in engine size for two years)
 
[ QUOTE ]
I totally agree.
I disagree with Spiral - I didnt pass my test until I was 21 and I have had no accidents.
I think that the older you are the less you take risks, the less you take risks the safer you are.
Generally speaking buying a house or getting married usually doesn't result in killing someone - driving like a tit certainly does.
Make the test harder and up the age limit - its only a good thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, yes, but so? You might have passed your test at 17 and still had no accidents. I don't see how that is relevant at all.

If someone is going to drive like a tit, they will whether they are 17 or 27 - my point is that experience is the key factor, not age. You are deemed an adult at 18, old enough to run your life, therefore old enough to drive safely.

My personal experience is completely different to yours. In the few months since I passed my test I've done quite a lot of driving, and as I said, the reckless driving and stupid risk taking comes largely from experienced drivers [evident by big fancy cars] who are just too impatient, too cocky and think they know it all.
 
Its not that many years since I passed my test so I can understand some people's frustrations, but I completely agree with the driving for X no. of hours or over a certain period of time theory, and also with increasing the minimum age to 21, and BANNING week long "pass your test quick" courses. I would have hated this, but then again we would all have been in the same boat, and as it turns out I would still have the 3 friends who died under 18 as a result of driver inexperience. In my time at 6th form I knew of a further 5 people who lost their lives in accidents where a young person was driving.

Yes, you will never stop idiots who want to show off - but the older you make the age where they pass the further the drivers are away from their teenage "need to impress" and hormone issues. Yes there are a good deal of young people who are very sensible - I was one of them - but the number of risks that are taken in the name of impressing I saw were huge.

Two issues are going on here - young, hormonal show offs desperate to impress, and lack of experience.

As for the cost of lessons, 17-18 year olds are in my experience at their MOST able to afford driving lessons. Those of us who were at college had part time jobs and could afford lessons easily out of our disposable incomes. Whether or not we could afford a car/insurance/petrol was another thing entirely.
 
Personally I like that whole idea of them having to pass key skills, mak eit more like drivers ed classes in the states (or what you see in films) - BUT I am 25, I passed when I was 23, and was 24 when I got my car, and I am definitely a person who enjoys their driving
wink.gif
. I have driven like a tit before, I also know people in their 30's and 40'3 and even 50's who drive like tits - but they have experience under their wing and will more than likely know the outcome of what the what ifs, but that said, a new driver at 30 and a new driver at 17/18 will be around the same level, just one will think about it all differently.

I also think that after your 2 provisional years you should have to do a 2nd test.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I totally agree.
I disagree with Spiral - I didnt pass my test until I was 21 and I have had no accidents.
I think that the older you are the less you take risks, the less you take risks the safer you are.
Generally speaking buying a house or getting married usually doesn't result in killing someone - driving like a tit certainly does.
Make the test harder and up the age limit - its only a good thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, yes, but so? You might have passed your test at 17 and still had no accidents. I don't see how that is relevant at all.

If someone is going to drive like a tit, they will whether they are 17 or 27 - my point is that experience is the key factor, not age. You are deemed an adult at 18, old enough to run your life, therefore old enough to drive safely.

My personal experience is completely different to yours. In the few months since I passed my test I've done quite a lot of driving, and as I said, the reckless driving and stupid risk taking comes largely from experienced drivers [evident by big fancy cars] who are just too impatient, too cocky and think they know it all.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a reason younger drivers pay more insurance, and that is because they are more likely to crash - Im afraid that's just a fact. And while that fact remains I think anything which makes younger people a better class of driver is only a good thing...!!!????
 
How about changing the driving age the other way?

If basic road sense, steering, stop and go etc were taught at school, and I mean from 11 years upwards, people would have a lot longer to gain experience and skills. It would take the mistique and fear away, and it wouldn't be the big deal that some people take it to be . It might reduce the cockiness factor of some lads, as everyoen would have the same level of driving, and would have been learning for six years before being able to take their test.
 
I agree with this completly with what has been said about lessons only teach you the basics and not how to drive 'in the real world'. I think more driving hours would be more beneficial, but the price of lessons now is so expensive.

I think the last time i had a lesson they were £20 and that was probably over a year ago, plus the cost of the test which is about £50 and then you have to pay for the hire of an instructors car for the test itself, along with the theory test which is something like another £20. It all adds up, i have had to stop my lessons because i can no longer afford it. I really

In my opinion being able to drive is very important, especially when it comes to getting to and from work. Being unable to drive or not having a car to be able to drive can really limit where you can work, especially in jobs that tend to be out in the countryside. By the time you get to 18 you are seen as an adult, have to pay taxes and support yourself. I think being able to drive comes with this. I personally doubt raising the age would reduce accidents, many accidents are down to inexperience rather than driving attitude. You get 17 year olds who have just passed their tests who act like idiots on the road, along with 25 year olds who have also just passed their test who also act like idiots. I don't think it can be accounted to age, more lack of experience, hence where improved driving lessons would help. Thats my opinion on it anyway.
 
i passed my test first time at 17 and got my first car 2 months before I was 18. I was a fairly competent driver and very quickly became over confident. Looking back I was very very lucky to get to the ripe old age of 32 without injuring or killing myself or someone else. I am not talking about messing about, speeding or taking risks, just general day to day driving on rural roads. Just over confidence and inexperience.

I remember thinking that there was something very wrong when at the age of 21, I was sitting at the funeral of the 5th friend I had lost to a road accident that year. In total 14 poeple I was either at school with or friends with died at a young age on the roads. One other friend and my own brother have been brain damaged due to road accidents.
These accidents were all a direct result of inexperience and I can honestly say i don't think any would have happened to older people with more experience.

Thats the reason the government is trying to do something about the deaths of young people on the roads. It's not to victimise young people or keep them off the road. I'm not sure what the solution is. I know I would have been devastated had the age been put up before i passed my test, but then it took the deaths of friends to make me realise that I was still learning and needed to drive more defensivley. I learned from the mistakes of others. some are not that lucky.

The test is not hard enough. and lessons don't give you the experience you need. Controlling the car has to be second nature, you need to drive in all weathers and seasons. you need to drive on the motorway and rural roads. you need to drive a car with a wonky tire, go on a skid pan, rear end someone, you need to not notice the sign that warns of a sharp bend or a junction so you go too fast into it. You need someone to pull out on you or cut you up. and you need to have your car break down, preferably on a round about. In fact you need to learn to drive, like you learned to ride, not in a controlled environment, bumps and all.
 
not even remotely for the idea of changing it the other way, my little sister is 11 and barely responsible enough to be behind the wheel of a bike/pony nevermind a car! Neither are any of her friends nor would they be able to reach in the car!
 
I am sure that from what people have said about the prices of lessons now that they aren't very much more than they were when I learnt to drive 10 years ago - even with astronomical fuel prices now.

I agree with spiral - if you are a bit of a numpty then you will always drive like a numpty - no matter how old / experienced you are. If you are someone that has half a brain cell and even a millimetre of conscience (sp??) then you will take into consideration what your actions on the road will have on other people. Numpties will never be able to consider what the consequences of their actions are.

I do believe that having to have more hours behind the wheel is a good way to give the non-numpties (a technical term I think you will agree...) the best possible chance to be the safest and most considerate that they can be.

No matter how many hours you have behind a wheel - a numpty will remain - but it will give them the most oppurtunity of being trained out of being a tit in a car.

Sorry rambly!!
 
Of course younger drivers are more likely to crash - because they are inexperienced. Someone driving at 17 cannot possibly have had more than a few months driving experience.

My point is though, that if you raise the age to 21, not only would numerous people be severly limited as to what job they could do, if someone can only start learning to drive when they are 21, then the statistics will be true of 21 and 22 year old drivers - because they will be inexperienced!

Raising the age is not the answer imo - but like I said, increasing real road experience is.
 
But i think that you make less mistakes and take less risks than you do when you are younger.
I think if you asked most people on here they would agree that you become a more mellow, considerate driver as you age.

Unless your Jeremy Clarkson!
 
but surely it is more dependent on your personality, my friends that are nervous are nervous drivers. I am fairly relaxed person and consider myself a relaxed driver, I let people do as they please if they want to overtake in a stupid place thats their problem!
 
personaly i went to a school where they taught people to drive aged 11! (off road so perfectly legal) It taught basic car control and off road driving very early and it bacame very natural and indead instinctive as to how to control the cars, they only had 2 major accidents in the time i was there, one of the 6th form got it wrong going down a steep slope and rolled the car, and the other was when a 3rd former put the car in reverse instead of 1st and backed the car into the moat, so 2 accidents in 7 years not bad at all.
This early training ment that when people learnt to drive on the road (and you had to use the schools driving instructor) they could have more time in real traffic and less time learnig where 3rd gear was. the school driving instructor had 100% 1st pass rate for those who had take the off roading activity. and not one of my class mates has been killed in a road accident so far! Infact since they started the 4x4 driving i believe there has only been a few former pupils killed in road accidents. the 4x4 training has been going for at least 10 years.
If you take the forbidden fruit and make it normal then you dont get the sillyness when they are finaly allowed it.
 
I dont really think raising the age to 18 will help anymore or make it any higher i think it is right that people maybe have to have a set period of 6 months min of driving lessons before being able to pass but i really dont think it matters who you are your age or abilitys if you want to drive like a twat you will! I know lads who drive like idiots who are from 18 to 25 but then i also know of alot of older men in BMWS Audis etc enjoy causing accidents over taking in stupid places etc!

Whatever age you are if your a prat your a prat!

I passed my test when i was nearly 18 i think! Im now 20 will be 21 this year and although i maybe started out on my own driving not overly confident but within probably a few months i was happily driving down the M1 i was careful i didn't speed or take silly risks either! I drive a 2ltr mr2 now and this makes no difference to how i drive aswel so i really think it just depends on the person you can hardly start doing how stupid are you test and risk assements on people can you! lol
 
Well we'll just have to agree to disagree. I was driving a moped at 16, which isn't the same as a car at all, but my attitude to the road has not altered in the nearly 5 years since then - I have always been a pretty safe driver, although the more experience I get, the better I am. Nothing to do with age though, I think generally it is completely down to experience, and personal attitude, and a couple of years won't change that.
 
But it gave you road experience, how to look out for people/other drivers etc. The age may not be an issue as far as many are concerned, but the experience is the important factor. If you were to drive 50 miles a year for fifty years, you have less experience to enable you to deal quickly with problems than if you had driven for just one year at 12000 miles.
The point I am trying to make is that the more experience someone gets before getting out alone, the more capable they should be of avoiding accidents.
 
I haven't noticed that younger people are worse drivers just as a result of being younger. Most of the people that drive like nutters round here are older - 30s to 40s, and TBH a lot of the older tourists are the worst, can't reverse do 35 on a decent A-road (straight, proper white line down middle...) and 45 through towns and villages (with 30 limits). I have also found that my parents' generation find it more acceptable to drink and drive. None of my friends will drink at all when driving, other than potentially 1 glass of champagne for toasts at a wedding, when they're driving home 7 hours later...

Given that lots of people start work at 18, how are they supposed to get to work from rural areas if the limit is raised to 21? I spent 6 weeks unable/unwilling to drive in rural Devon recently following a wrist operation, and it was torture. The bus links are good from where I live, there are 7 buses per day to Exeter, unfortunately the last evening bus is 6.30, people are often turned away from it as it is too full, so you have to be at the bus stop by 6 latest. The next bus is 11.30. Taxi from Exeter costs £35 minimum.

Even in towns, the growth of supermarkets and demise of good local shops means that you probably need a car to go shopping - in London I used my car to get out of London - weekend links were less good - and once a month to stock up on heavy stuff like orange juice and washing powder and frozen stuff that would have defrosted on the 40 minute bus ride (to do a car journey that would take 10 minutes). If we had better public transport links, then a rise in the driving age could be workable, otherwise young people will be forced to rely on their parents to get them to work.
 
I never disagreed with you - I am disagreeing with the people who think the age limit should be raised to 21, which wouldn't give anyone more experience, just make them older novices.
 
QR- As an aside, most young people on here will live in rural areas. I passed my test at 17, bought a car and drive everyday. How would I, or someone in a similar situation, get to work without a car? I would have had to be unemployed for a year, presumeably tapping my parents for money, while I waited to be allowed my full liscense.
 
i live in a raural area, its a 6 mile walk to the nearest bus stop and then there is only 2 busses a day, one at 10am and one at 4pm. without a car i'd be stuffed and thats why after my accident when i was unable to get back in a car i was housebound. I relied on my mum to bring me everything as i could not face getting in a car again (6 months stuck at home and 6 months of councelling later and ive faced my fears but im now a very timid driver).

At 18 you are expected to have got a job, how do you get to that job from places like mine if you cant drive a car.
 
How do you get to college or part time jobs?

My parents had to give me lifts to my part time job until I could drive - if that was a year later then so be it, thats life.

Moped/scooters a possibility for those most rural people? How did you get to work before you passed your tests?
 
I've got the answer. Ride your horse to work. Insist on top quality stables and fields, and hay provided FOC from your employer as equal rights, and tell them you'll be reducing their carbon footprint by not driving.
 
ok i would just like to say i am 22 and passed my test 3yrs ago, and yes i have learnt so much more being out and about on my own i have also learnt that it is not always the youngsters that drive dangerously, i have come across loads of middle aged and older people that dont know how the hell to drive and are a danger to other road users, in fact i find more of those people than people that are young. yes we live in a culture of racers and people who dont think they need insurance but raising the age is not going to stop that i know of several 30yr olds and over that still drive like nutters because they still think they are young and are in the racer society. i think new drivers would benefit from more experience but there is an after pass course you can do ,maybe this should be more cost effective so that people will do it and have a bigger influence on lowering insurance for people that have done it.
 
My OH is a traffic cop and I can't tell you the number of times he has dealt with accidents involving young people. Ive been driving 10 years and i've only had one accident - caused by a 17 year old who just passed their test the day before and they pulled out in front of me. I think (and Im sure OH would agree) any plans to make young people better drivers when they actually get on the road by themselves is fantastic. If you have an accident after passing your test caused by a lack of experience, you would have to pay out a fortune in insurance excess and future insurance anyway so it probably worth the money.
Good luck with your test, Im sure you'll be sensible and drive safely, but unfortunately the same can't be said of a lot of young drivers.
 
I agree with everyone who said that those people who want to like idiots and show off will do it no matter what age, so raising the age when the test can be taken wont make much difference, but then that's not really what they're proposing anyway, is it?
smile.gif

I do agree that everyone should have to have a compulsory minimum number of regular and night driving lessons. In addition to that, I think learner drivers should also have to do a set number of motorway driving lessons. I know it's not legal for learners to be on the motorway at the moment, but seeing as you can drive anywhere you want as soon as you've passed your test, surely it would be better to get some motorway experience in a car with dual controls, where an instructor can step in if you're about to do something stupid.
crazy.gif
As it is a young driver can take their car on the motorway the day after passing the test, but actually they won't have the slightest idea how to even join a motorway safely, nevermind driving on it.
crazy.gif
I know when I went on the motorway the first time by myself I was petrified, I wish I could have learned during my lessons
crazy.gif

PS: I know about the Pass Plus courses where you get taught to drive on motorways, but they're not compulsory, so most people won't do them
crazy.gif
 
Just to add my bit to this thread, my daughter passed her test 3 months after her 17th birthday. She passed her test at 12.30 and was driving off in my car at 1pm. She's an extremely confident (over) driver, and worries the hell out of me. I wish that the age was higher, as I spend every night waiting for a phone call, or a knock at the door telling me that there has been an accident. But, I'd probably still be doing that if she's past when she was 21.

So it's not about age, it's about experience. If you pass at 21 you will still take a couple of years to gain experience, the same as if you pass at 17.

Good luck when you take your test.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top