Drug addicts could be given...

[Christmas_Kate]

LMAO.

What will they come up with next?

a drug addict would rather sell a 20 pound shopping voucher for 10 pounds cash for drugs.

Re being free from drugs for xxx time, well, what's the point then?

It's abit like giving addicts subitex or methodone. Everyone knows they have to be free from drugs in a urine test to get their prescription, but somehow they will still sell their prescription for a tenner in order to buy drugs......and get away with it.

 

[Chex]

I don't fully understand the proposal, but if its an incentive to stay clean, then I don't see it working. I think if you had drugs in one hand, and a new car in the other, sadly a lot would pick the drugs. Even though it seems like a choice, its not, its an addiction.

 

[Sooty]

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drug users=stupid. don't give them bloody vouchers or money. shouldn't have started in the first place

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For once, I am at a loss for words. Probably just as well.

 

[sojeph]

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drug users=stupid. don't give them bloody vouchers or money. shouldn't have started in the first place

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Oh to be so perfect

 

[Onyxia]

Doubt it will work, but it's a step int he right direction-at least the pwoers that be are TRYING to do something to help.
IMO, the money would be better spent on other proven forms of rehab.
Sure starting to take drugs is a bloody stupid thing to do,we all know that but for the people out there who are on them and want to get off help should be avalable.

 

[severnmiles]

I'd rather see them hit the dealers but all the while there is a supply there will be a demand, so its a viscious circle!

TBH I don't think it will work but fingers crossed.

 

[jackie36]

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drug users=stupid. don't give them bloody vouchers or money. shouldn't have started in the first place

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oh to live in your fluffy world

, must be so warm and cosy

 

[Christmas_Kate]

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Just the same thing happened years ago when people were given milk tokens for their children.

(I dont mean they swapped the children.....the tokens were for milk for......you get what I mean.)

Milk tokens became currency for drugs in some areas.



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Yes, that is true. Drug addicts have no sense of what's right or wrong, when they need their fix, they just have to have it, and will sell anything to get it.

 

[SpruceRI]

But drug users committing crime are just as bad as non-drug users committing crime. Why shouldn't they be sent to prison like other offenders?

A desperate drug crazed criminal is worse in my opinion. Yes, a few weeks cold turkey in a prison psychiatric unit might help first, but if you commit a crime whether drug induced or not, you should expect a prison sentence

 

[Onyxia]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather see them hit the dealers but all the while there is a supply there will be a demand, so its a viscious circle!

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Yep, but unfortunatly we have not found an effective way to stop the supply so logical step is to eliminate the demand.

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TBH I don't think it will work but fingers crossed.

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Same here.Like I said,cant see it doing much good but a step in the right direction.

 

[Onyxia]

[ QUOTE ]
But drug users committing crime are just as bad as non-drug users committing crime. Why shouldn't they be sent to prison like other offenders?

A desperate drug crazed criminal is worse in my opinion. Yes, a few weeks cold turkey in a prison psychiatric unit might help first, but if you commit a crime whether drug induced or not, you should expect a prison sentence

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think anyone has or would try to argue that a drug user should be excused their crimes.Just the because of the reason rehab and help has to come as well as punishment.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

But more people become addicted to drugs in prisons than anywhere else. It is a PROVEN fact.

 

[polyphonic]

so shouldt we invest in a better prison service ....oooops...see peadophile post! this country is a effin mess

 

[Christmas_Kate]

The prisons have to allow a certain amount of drugs in the prisons to keep the older prisoners happy. I know, I know, this sounds absolute tosh, but believe me here....it is true. Why else do they get TV's, games consoles etc. If the prisoners of some of the country's category A & B prisons wanted to kick up a fuss, the prison service would be powerless, and alot of people could get hurt. So hence, alot is done to keep prisoners sweet.
Now, the question is, do you send a 17 yr old heroin addict to prison? Do you think prison will make him go cold turkey? Nope, he will soon learn how to swap phonecards/ canteen goods/sexual favours for drugs.
No good sending them to prison, much better to take away their DSS, don't give them bloomin vouchers, make them come into work daily at specialist centres to earn some money. Give them self respect, educate them, let them earn enough to feed themselves.
High unemployment, lack of education, and lack of opportunities are what drive alot of kids from poorer areas to drugs. True, peer pressure has alot to answer for, but some of these kids really don't get a chance.
Having gone to school, having a family who cares, food in your belly, for some people it's easy to sit and judge.
Yes, alot of people have had difficult pasts, some choose to make something of themselves, yet sadly, for others they feel their only way foward is drugs. What starts as a bit of teenage playful dabbling truly ruins lives.
I don't think prison is the place for teenage drug addicts, which make up approx 30% of the prison population. 30% more space for REAL criminals who are a real danger to you, I and our children.

 

[weevil]

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No good sending them to prison, much better to take away their DSS, don't give them bloomin vouchers, make them come into work daily at specialist centres to earn some money. Give them self respect, educate them, let them earn enough to feed themselves.


[/ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately it is not that simple. I used to work with someone who turned out to be a drug addict. She had a job and money and therefore self respect. However she spent all the money she earned on drugs and then started stealing from us when her wages weren't enough. When it became clear that she had a problem her employers bent over backwards to help her but she failed to turn up for any appointments for counselling etc.
To successfully treat a drug addict they have to want to stop taking drugs, if they do want to get clean then cash incentives may help but as has been said before this will only help people who are already in the system.

 

[polyphonic]

i see that you actually do have experience and a real understanding of the happenings out there, thank you for the facts. i think from my point...telling my life story.... when i was struggling to keep a recreational drug from becoming a habit of which is did and when iwanted the help, any help, there didnt seem a place to turn, now im only 23, and this was only a couple of years ago, bt without the help and money of my parents to get me the help i ACTUALLY craved and wanted would i be one of those juvieniles in prison now, i'd prob say yes i would be. i was VERY lucky to have a support system around me then and NOW, not many of us are. and as for the stupid smackhead remark, i was bought up very well, into a family not of wealth but of good doings and education. its not just the niave and stupid people of this country that experience diffuclties with addictions. im very happy that your life has been one big joy for you... not all of us tho chose that path.... i do not judge you for living your life, please dont condemn those who go against your own

 

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No good sending them to prison, much better to take away their DSS, don't give them bloomin vouchers, make them come into work daily at specialist centres to earn some money. Give them self respect, educate them, let them earn enough to feed themselves.


[/ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately it is not that simple. I used to work with someone who turned out to be a drug addict. She had a job and money and therefore self respect. However she spent all the money she earned on drugs and then started stealing from us when her wages weren't enough. When it became clear that she had a problem her employers bent over backwards to help her but she failed to turn up for any appointments for counselling etc.
To successfully treat a drug addict they have to want to stop taking drugs, if they do want to get clean then cash incentives may help but as has been said before this will only help people who are already in the system.

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yet sending them to prison only intensifies the problems. They end up either 10 times as hooked or comitting suicide. Very few actually learn from prison and stop using drugs.

 

[polyphonic]

but there isnt a strong enough system out there for people!!! thats the point! chuck a view vouchers at the problem! atleast they are seen to be pro active in the aproach to drug users/abuse and addicts

 

[Christmas_Kate]

see Flintus, you know very little about what I know and about my experiences.

People are too quick to judge and condemn drug users. That much is true.
You cannot help everyone, because alot of drug users are happy to carry on, but for those who want help, give them opportunities, incentives, counselling.

The fact that heroin addicts have to be drug free for a certain time (round here it's 6 months) before they are given beta Blockers says it all. There isnt the help. They have to be drug free for 6 weeks before they can get counselling and subitex or methodone.

 

[polyphonic]

i wasnt on heroin that wasnt my weakness and escape... i know my experiences and what i lived through and the help i desperatly wanted only seemed to be available if mommy and daddy paid for it! well others dont have that opp that i did in life...it troubles me that there isnt a support system that can help people who do want to come of the drugs

 

[Christmas_Kate]

and that is where the Goverment fails.

They are happy to throw millions at the 2012 olympics, yet ignore the people in their own country.
Breast cancer sufferers can only get certain drugs if they live in certain counties. It's a country wide problem of lack of funding for the NHS.
if only the Goverment could inject more money into the youth of today, but then again, pigs might fly.

 

[Onyxia]

[ QUOTE ]
if only the Goverment could inject more money into the youth of today, but then again, pigs might fly.

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Too true.
Out of a once very close group of friends I grew up with, one is in prison for armed robbery,3 are hocked on class A drugs and 1 is dead fom them.
Not one of those guys were ANY trouble to anyone untill the local youth canter was shut down to give refugees a meeting place.
Had the council thought to use the building for both purposes a childhood friend might still be alive and the others might have a very different life.
The difference between them and me? I had a work for rides job at the local riding school,it gave me something to do other then sit in the park bored stiff being offered drink and drugs.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if only the Goverment could inject more money into the youth of today, but then again, pigs might fly.

[/ QUOTE ]
Too true.
Out of a once very close group of friends I grew up with, one is in prison for armed robbery,3 are hocked on class A drugs and 1 is dead fom them.
Not one of those guys were ANY trouble to anyone untill the local youth canter was shut down to give refugees a meeting place.
Had the council thought to use the building for both purposes a childhood friend might still be alive and the others might have a very different life.
The difference between them and me? I had a work for rides job at the local riding school,it gave me something to do other then sit in the park bored stiff being offered drink and drugs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hence why I moved out of town (it had a bad heroin problem) and back to the village when I had the kids.

 

[xspiralx]

I've seen plenty of my friends who were brought up well turn to drugs and end up screwing up their lives - but its STILL a choice! I think using the excuse that you couldn't help it is pathetic, there is enough propaganda about how bad drugs are, nobody has to start in the first place.

Yes, people should be helped, but I don't think handouts are the answer. Couldn't the money be used instead to set up "prisons" for drug addicts where enforced rehab was provided? I just don't think giving them money and vouchers will help at all.
The entire system just reminds me of school, where the troublemakers were 'rewarded' by being let off work because it was easier, and the ones who worked hard and did as they were told ended up paying for it with quality of teaching, and being told off over much more trivial things.

 

[flying_change]

"Yes, people should be helped, but I don't think handouts are the answer. Couldn't the money be used instead to set up "prisons" for drug addicts where enforced rehab was provided? "

Well that is a possible solution, but would probably be much much more expensive. Also, I'd think that the recidivism rate from such a regime would be much higher than from a self-motivational regime.

 

[burtie]

[ QUOTE ]
No good sending them to prison, much better to take away their DSS, don't give them bloomin vouchers, make them come into work daily at specialist centres to earn some money. Give them self respect, educate them, let them earn enough to feed themselves.
High unemployment, lack of education, and lack of opportunities are what drive alot of kids from poorer areas to drugs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Coming from a working /middle class family and being a girl who has only ever once managed a parking ticket and has never smoked and doesn't drink. I can say that I totally agree with this. Someone fairly close to me ended up in prison at a young age in a way related to drugs, she was quickly moved to open prison and allowed to work on the farm and given reponsibility. She actually really enjoyed having a responsible job and looking after the animals and it was tough when she came out then struggled to get a job for obvious reasons. Not all criminals or drug addicts can be or want to be reformed, but an awful lot don't really choose it, more end up there through circumstances and poor life choices.

 

[weevil]

[ QUOTE ]
Well that is a possible solution, but would probably be much much more expensive. Also, I'd think that the recidivism rate from such a regime would be much higher than from a self-motivational regime.

[/ QUOTE ]
True, it is hard enough for people who actually want help, but if they have no desire to stop taking drugs then there is very little chance that rehab will work.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]
I've seen plenty of my friends who were brought up well turn to drugs and end up screwing up their lives - but its STILL a choice! I think using the excuse that you couldn't help it is pathetic, there is enough propaganda about how bad drugs are, nobody has to start in the first place.

Yes, people should be helped, but I don't think handouts are the answer. Couldn't the money be used instead to set up "prisons" for drug addicts where enforced rehab was provided? I just don't think giving them money and vouchers will help at all.
The entire system just reminds me of school, where the troublemakers were 'rewarded' by being let off work because it was easier, and the ones who worked hard and did as they were told ended up paying for it with quality of teaching, and being told off over much more trivial things.

[/ QUOTE ]



As an example, someone i know. let's call him Bill..... Bill started school a happy little boy. It soon became apparent that he had dyslexia amongst other problems. His teachers called him 'naughty' his mother fought and fought to get him the help he needed. But his teachers refused to accept he had a problem. He was continually referred to as stupid.
By secondary Bill couldnt even write his name. His teachers would give him french homework! He hated school, he felt like a freak. He was eventually diagnosed with dyslexia. But by then it was too late as the education system said he HAD to do his GCSE's....heck he even had to do a french GCSE. The only way out for him was to bunk off school. The school offered him to do a college course, but Bill felt too 'stupid' to do it. There was no other help available.
Bill left school and began to dabble in drugs. He found Heroin made him feel 'normal'. Within a few days he was an addict.
Bill will do anything to work. He has had his ups and downs, but he is hardworking and tries his best. Oh he's had rehab, but without heroin he just doesnt feel normal.
Bill was diagnosed last year as having ADHD. He has a family, three children, but the fact that one drunken night he took heroin and found it to be the key to his problems he is now suffering for life. He tries to keep down a job, but is constantly persecuted by employers for his lack of reading and writing skills.
Bill has a son with dyslexia and ADHD , and the school have dubbed him as stupid too...... This is 2007!!! And anyone who doesnt believe this happens still is seriously blinkered. It is still going on, up and down the country, to thousands of children each year.


Education and Gover,ment are to blame.

can you honestly say you have never made a mistake? you've never snogged someone you didnt really want to??

ADHD sufferers are given ritalin. Now, do you have any idea what Ritalin is???
Opium.....(heroin).

A study was done of heroin addicts and found that about 70% of that generation were ADHD sufferers. So in effect, all they're doing is self medicating.

So hows about instead of sending these young people into prisons...why not bl**dy well help them?? Start as 4 yr olds, give them a proper education.

 

[Parkranger]

Yet another knee jerk reaction from the government.

Surely there are better ways to help people who have a drug dependency?

 

[weevil]

[ QUOTE ]
ADHD sufferers are given ritalin. Now, do you have any idea what Ritalin is???
Opium.....(heroin).

[/ QUOTE ]
No, it's not. Ritalin is methylphenidate which is an amphetamine-like stimulant. It is NOT heroin.