Christmas_Kate
Well-Known Member
It's just the same......
Drug addicts could be given...
- Thread starter severnmiles
- Start date
weevil
Well-Known Member
Actually it is not just the same.
Christmas_Kate
Well-Known Member
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Actually it is not just the same.
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So, if its not just the same then why did a doctor say this?? Unless he is lying or underqualified of course.......
Actually it is not just the same.
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So, if its not just the same then why did a doctor say this?? Unless he is lying or underqualified of course.......
Sooty
Well-Known Member
He may just have been stupid or confused, but there is no doubt he is wrong! Ritalin is an amphetamine (speed), heroin is an opiate (used to deal with severe pain in terminal cancer patients).
Christmas_Kate
Well-Known Member
so are you saying then that Ritalin in no way has the same effects as heroin on an ADHD sufferer?
X
xspiralx
Guest
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can you honestly say you have never made a mistake? you've never snogged someone you didnt really want to??
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Of course I've made mistakes, I'm not perfect. But no, I've never taken drugs, or smoked, or in fact snogged anyone I didn't want to.
Mistakes happen, but they are still choices - and I don't think anyone should be completely excused for making such a stupid choice. What happened to your friend is terrible, and a real shame - but there are many other people in worse situations who don't turn to drugs as an answer.
can you honestly say you have never made a mistake? you've never snogged someone you didnt really want to??
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Of course I've made mistakes, I'm not perfect. But no, I've never taken drugs, or smoked, or in fact snogged anyone I didn't want to.
Mistakes happen, but they are still choices - and I don't think anyone should be completely excused for making such a stupid choice. What happened to your friend is terrible, and a real shame - but there are many other people in worse situations who don't turn to drugs as an answer.
sojeph
Well-Known Member
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ADHD sufferers are given ritalin. Now, do you have any idea what Ritalin is???
Opium.....(heroin).
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No, it's not. Ritalin is methylphenidate which is an amphetamine-like stimulant. It is NOT heroin.
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Yes, I was told its like speed however Katy I agree. My brother, who became a Heroin addict, had alot of problems growing up which today would be very indicative of ADHD. Our grandmother lived on 'purple hearts' which I believe were amphetamines and my sister has had untold problems with one of her chlildren who was eventually diagnosed with ADHD 2 years into secondary school and on the verge of expulsion. He too (when eventually expelled), went down the drug route but fortunately we are all experts at reading the signs in our family and have stopped that in its tracks.
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ADHD sufferers are given ritalin. Now, do you have any idea what Ritalin is???
Opium.....(heroin).
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it's not. Ritalin is methylphenidate which is an amphetamine-like stimulant. It is NOT heroin.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I was told its like speed however Katy I agree. My brother, who became a Heroin addict, had alot of problems growing up which today would be very indicative of ADHD. Our grandmother lived on 'purple hearts' which I believe were amphetamines and my sister has had untold problems with one of her chlildren who was eventually diagnosed with ADHD 2 years into secondary school and on the verge of expulsion. He too (when eventually expelled), went down the drug route but fortunately we are all experts at reading the signs in our family and have stopped that in its tracks.
Sooty
Well-Known Member
I have no idea of the effects on an ADHD sufferer, because as far as I am aware no ADHD sufferer is given heroin. If it was the same, I assume any adult with ADHD could get heroin on prescription. They are however both controlled drugs, and both open to abuse, but they are not the same.
Christmas_Kate
Well-Known Member
adults with ADHD don't get anything on prescription.....
weevil
Well-Known Member
I don't know why you were told this by a doctor as they certainly have veyr different therapeutic uses. However, as with all drugs there is the potential for abuse and ritalin when injected or snorted becomes a very powerful stimulant (but still the effects are more similar to those of cocaine then of heroin)
Christmas_Kate
Well-Known Member
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I don't know why you were told this by a doctor as they certainly have veyr different therapeutic uses. However, as with all drugs there is the potential for abuse and ritalin when injected or snorted becomes a very powerful stimulant (but still the effects are more similar to those of cocaine then of heroin)
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So can you tell me does ritalin (or does it not) have the same effect as methodone? I am assuming you have a vast medical knowledge of the drug, it's ingerdients and side effects, and therefore should know the answer to this. You should then also know the drug with which they treat heroin addicts.....
True, Ritalin DOES contain an amphetamine, but also makes the user almost zombiefied.
Who said anything about ritalin being abused? The fact that it is sole on the street as Kiddie coke is irrelevant here.
I don't know why you were told this by a doctor as they certainly have veyr different therapeutic uses. However, as with all drugs there is the potential for abuse and ritalin when injected or snorted becomes a very powerful stimulant (but still the effects are more similar to those of cocaine then of heroin)
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So can you tell me does ritalin (or does it not) have the same effect as methodone? I am assuming you have a vast medical knowledge of the drug, it's ingerdients and side effects, and therefore should know the answer to this. You should then also know the drug with which they treat heroin addicts.....
True, Ritalin DOES contain an amphetamine, but also makes the user almost zombiefied.
Who said anything about ritalin being abused? The fact that it is sole on the street as Kiddie coke is irrelevant here.
Christmas_Kate
Well-Known Member
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ADHD sufferers are given ritalin. Now, do you have any idea what Ritalin is???
Opium.....(heroin).
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it's not. Ritalin is methylphenidate which is an amphetamine-like stimulant. It is NOT heroin.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I was told its like speed however Katy I agree. My brother, who became a Heroin addict, had alot of problems growing up which today would be very indicative of ADHD. Our grandmother lived on 'purple hearts' which I believe were amphetamines and my sister has had untold problems with one of her chlildren who was eventually diagnosed with ADHD 2 years into secondary school and on the verge of expulsion. He too (when eventually expelled), went down the drug route but fortunately we are all experts at reading the signs in our family and have stopped that in its tracks.
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Are you aware that ADHD, dyslexia and the such are all related and tend to run in male sides of the family? We currently have a leading psychologist looking into this in our family.
My brother and two cousins have ADHD and dyslexia. I have a nephew with ADD and Aspergers, and other relatives with things all ranging from ADHD to autism. Funnily enough, all male.....
And to add to that, depression also runs in the family.
Clinical trials proved Ritalin to have the same effect on children as low doses of Heroin.
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ADHD sufferers are given ritalin. Now, do you have any idea what Ritalin is???
Opium.....(heroin).
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it's not. Ritalin is methylphenidate which is an amphetamine-like stimulant. It is NOT heroin.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I was told its like speed however Katy I agree. My brother, who became a Heroin addict, had alot of problems growing up which today would be very indicative of ADHD. Our grandmother lived on 'purple hearts' which I believe were amphetamines and my sister has had untold problems with one of her chlildren who was eventually diagnosed with ADHD 2 years into secondary school and on the verge of expulsion. He too (when eventually expelled), went down the drug route but fortunately we are all experts at reading the signs in our family and have stopped that in its tracks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you aware that ADHD, dyslexia and the such are all related and tend to run in male sides of the family? We currently have a leading psychologist looking into this in our family.
My brother and two cousins have ADHD and dyslexia. I have a nephew with ADD and Aspergers, and other relatives with things all ranging from ADHD to autism. Funnily enough, all male.....
And to add to that, depression also runs in the family.
Clinical trials proved Ritalin to have the same effect on children as low doses of Heroin.
weevil
Well-Known Member
Methadone does not act in the same was as ritalin, it is a partial agonist at opioid receptors and so is used to treat herion addiction by alleviating the symptoms of heroin withdrawl without producing the high associated with heroin.
Ritalin does not contain amphetamines, it is an amphetamine-like drug and as for ingredients, the active ingredient is ritalin (otherwise known as methylphenidate)
I do not have a vast medical knowledge of this, but I do have a degree in pharmacology and so I know a bit about how drugs work.
Ritalin does not contain amphetamines, it is an amphetamine-like drug and as for ingredients, the active ingredient is ritalin (otherwise known as methylphenidate)
I do not have a vast medical knowledge of this, but I do have a degree in pharmacology and so I know a bit about how drugs work.
Christmas_Kate
Well-Known Member
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Methadone does not act in the same was as ritalin, it is a partial agonist at opioid receptors and so is used to treat herion addiction by alleviating the symptoms of heroin withdrawl without producing the high associated with heroin.
Ritalin does not contain amphetamines, it is an amphetamine-like drug and as for ingredients, the active ingredient is ritalin (otherwise known as methylphenidate)
I do not have a vast medical knowledge of this, but I do have a degree in pharmacology and so I know a bit about how drugs work.
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What a drug is meant to do and what it does do are totally different things.
Can you explain the link between ADHD sufferers and heroin addiction?
Methadone does not act in the same was as ritalin, it is a partial agonist at opioid receptors and so is used to treat herion addiction by alleviating the symptoms of heroin withdrawl without producing the high associated with heroin.
Ritalin does not contain amphetamines, it is an amphetamine-like drug and as for ingredients, the active ingredient is ritalin (otherwise known as methylphenidate)
I do not have a vast medical knowledge of this, but I do have a degree in pharmacology and so I know a bit about how drugs work.
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What a drug is meant to do and what it does do are totally different things.
Can you explain the link between ADHD sufferers and heroin addiction?
Sooty
Well-Known Member
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What a drug is meant to do and what it does do are totally different things.
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Eh? All drugs have side effects admittedly, but by and large drugs prescribed do do what they are meant to. And before you ask, I used to work in a dispensary, so do have some knowledge of drug uses.
What a drug is meant to do and what it does do are totally different things.
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Eh? All drugs have side effects admittedly, but by and large drugs prescribed do do what they are meant to. And before you ask, I used to work in a dispensary, so do have some knowledge of drug uses.
weevil
Well-Known Member
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What a drug is meant to do and what it does do are totally different things.
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But if a drug does not do what it is meant to do then it would never even get onto the market
What a drug is meant to do and what it does do are totally different things.
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But if a drug does not do what it is meant to do then it would never even get onto the market
sunflower
Well-Known Member
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Clinical trials proved Ritalin to have the same effect on children as low doses of Heroin.
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What clinical trials? Do you have any more information on them or a link to any information? I find it very hard to believe that anyone would get permission for a trial involving the use of heroin - at any level - in children.
Clinical trials proved Ritalin to have the same effect on children as low doses of Heroin.
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What clinical trials? Do you have any more information on them or a link to any information? I find it very hard to believe that anyone would get permission for a trial involving the use of heroin - at any level - in children.
weevil
Well-Known Member
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Can you explain the link between ADHD sufferers and heroin addiction?
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What link?
A quick Pubmed search (I am supposed to be working) comes up with this:
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Thirty adolescents with histories of minimal brain dysfunction who had been treated for at least six months with chemotherapy were compared with 30 adolescents who had not been so treated. The findings do not indicate that methylphenidate prescribed in childhood contributed to later drug abuse
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and this:
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Children, ages 7-12 years, with developmental reading disorders but no other psychiatric diagnoses were randomly assigned to methylphenidate treatment (n = 43) or matching placebo (n = 66) for 12-18 weeks. At 16-year follow-up (mean age 26 years), 94% of probands and 129 normal comparisons were evaluated by trained clinicians who were blind to group and treatment status. There were no significant differences between groups on the prevalence of substance use disorder (abuse or dependence) for any of the seven drug categories studied. There were no significant group differences among substance abusers regarding age at onset, duration, or number of episodes of substance abuse and dependence. Significantly more normals (60%) than treated (46%) and untreated probands (41%) ever used stimulants in adolescence or adulthood. Findings from this randomized trial contradict the notion that stimulant treatment in childhood leads to substance use or abuse in later life. The sensitization hypothesis is not supported.
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and this:
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Duration of stimulant treatment was not significantly associated with frequency of any form of drug use by young adulthood. Stimulant-treated children had no greater risk of ever trying drugs by adolescence or any significantly greater frequency of drug use by young adulthood. Stimulant treatment in high school also did not influence drug use in adulthood except for greater use of cocaine. This difference was no longer significant after controlling for severity of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder and conduct disorder in childhood, adolescence, and adulthood. Treatment with stimulants did not increase the risk of ever having tried most illegal substances by adulthood except for cocaine. Subsequent analyses showed that this elevated risk was primarily mediated by severity of conduct disorder by young adulthood and not by stimulant treatment in childhood. CONCLUSION: This study concurs with 11 previous studies in finding no compelling evidence that stimulant treatment of children with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder leads to an increased risk for substance experimentation, use, dependence, or abuse by adulthood.
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I could not find any compelling reports of a link between ADHD treatment and heroin addiction
Can you explain the link between ADHD sufferers and heroin addiction?
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What link?
A quick Pubmed search (I am supposed to be working) comes up with this:
[ QUOTE ]
Thirty adolescents with histories of minimal brain dysfunction who had been treated for at least six months with chemotherapy were compared with 30 adolescents who had not been so treated. The findings do not indicate that methylphenidate prescribed in childhood contributed to later drug abuse
[/ QUOTE ]
and this:
[ QUOTE ]
Children, ages 7-12 years, with developmental reading disorders but no other psychiatric diagnoses were randomly assigned to methylphenidate treatment (n = 43) or matching placebo (n = 66) for 12-18 weeks. At 16-year follow-up (mean age 26 years), 94% of probands and 129 normal comparisons were evaluated by trained clinicians who were blind to group and treatment status. There were no significant differences between groups on the prevalence of substance use disorder (abuse or dependence) for any of the seven drug categories studied. There were no significant group differences among substance abusers regarding age at onset, duration, or number of episodes of substance abuse and dependence. Significantly more normals (60%) than treated (46%) and untreated probands (41%) ever used stimulants in adolescence or adulthood. Findings from this randomized trial contradict the notion that stimulant treatment in childhood leads to substance use or abuse in later life. The sensitization hypothesis is not supported.
[/ QUOTE ]
and this:
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Duration of stimulant treatment was not significantly associated with frequency of any form of drug use by young adulthood. Stimulant-treated children had no greater risk of ever trying drugs by adolescence or any significantly greater frequency of drug use by young adulthood. Stimulant treatment in high school also did not influence drug use in adulthood except for greater use of cocaine. This difference was no longer significant after controlling for severity of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder and conduct disorder in childhood, adolescence, and adulthood. Treatment with stimulants did not increase the risk of ever having tried most illegal substances by adulthood except for cocaine. Subsequent analyses showed that this elevated risk was primarily mediated by severity of conduct disorder by young adulthood and not by stimulant treatment in childhood. CONCLUSION: This study concurs with 11 previous studies in finding no compelling evidence that stimulant treatment of children with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder leads to an increased risk for substance experimentation, use, dependence, or abuse by adulthood.
[/ QUOTE ]
I could not find any compelling reports of a link between ADHD treatment and heroin addiction
Sooty
Well-Known Member
Children on Ritalin are rigorously monitored by their GP and/or consultant throughout the time they take the drug.
Christmas_Kate
Well-Known Member
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What a drug is meant to do and what it does do are totally different things.
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But if a drug does not do what it is meant to do then it would never even get onto the market
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Oh, like Seroxat?? Like prozac?? more 'cool' medicines given out willy nilly eh?
And who said kids on Ritalin were closely monitored? In essence they are still being given class A drugs...... Maybe some kids, or the majority are closely monitored, but what happens to these kids when the doctor feels they're too old for Ritalin?
They are left to find something which gives them the same feeling......
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What a drug is meant to do and what it does do are totally different things.
[/ QUOTE ]
But if a drug does not do what it is meant to do then it would never even get onto the market
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, like Seroxat?? Like prozac?? more 'cool' medicines given out willy nilly eh?
And who said kids on Ritalin were closely monitored? In essence they are still being given class A drugs...... Maybe some kids, or the majority are closely monitored, but what happens to these kids when the doctor feels they're too old for Ritalin?
They are left to find something which gives them the same feeling......
Sooty
Well-Known Member
Ritalin may be an amphetamine, but in children with ADHD it had the effect of slowing them down. It doesn't give them any 'feeling' as such, other than to make them calmer. However, there is a huge difference between genuine ADHD and normal childhood overexuberance, and there is a great deal of concern as to how many children are being medicated and the effect it will have on them in later life. There are many drugs whose long-term effects are not known. The miracle drug at the moment is statins, yet there are questions as to its effects on memory with continued use. There is not always a pharmacological answer to every situation.
Tia
Well-Known Member
Why are there so many ADHD sufferers these days? I don't remember any people having these oddities when I was growing up? It seems to have come to the forefront only about 10 - 20 years ago.
Sooty
Well-Known Member
Because there is a medication available for it...
Tia
Well-Known Member
....you know, you might not be too far off the mark.
flying_change
Well-Known Member
I guess....
1) Medical advances have caused the condition to be recognised and properly documented, hence kids can be diagnosed. In the past, kids were just considered to be naughty.
2) Once there's a term, people get on the bandwagon and use it (maybe unnecessarily).
3) There's a third thing, but I wanna go do something else now.
1) Medical advances have caused the condition to be recognised and properly documented, hence kids can be diagnosed. In the past, kids were just considered to be naughty.
2) Once there's a term, people get on the bandwagon and use it (maybe unnecessarily).
3) There's a third thing, but I wanna go do something else now.
Tia
Well-Known Member
Well they may well have been classed as "naughty" but the naughty ones I saw were just that, naughty! None of this not being able to sit on their backsides and not able to listen to the teacher.
I've seen kids over the past decade with ADHD and they almost seem completely off their heads.....well that was never what I saw growing up? Anyone have experience of genuine ADHD children over 20 or so years ago?
I've seen kids over the past decade with ADHD and they almost seem completely off their heads.....well that was never what I saw growing up? Anyone have experience of genuine ADHD children over 20 or so years ago?
PapaFrita
Well-Known Member
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I don't know why you were told this by a doctor as they certainly have veyr different therapeutic uses. However, as with all drugs there is the potential for abuse and ritalin when injected or snorted becomes a very powerful stimulant (but still the effects are more similar to those of cocaine then of heroin)
[/ QUOTE ]
This might seem a bit irrelevant (apologies in advance) but wasn't there an episode of Desperate Housewives in which the mum takes the drug prescribed to calm her hyper kids down and it speeds her up?
I don't know why you were told this by a doctor as they certainly have veyr different therapeutic uses. However, as with all drugs there is the potential for abuse and ritalin when injected or snorted becomes a very powerful stimulant (but still the effects are more similar to those of cocaine then of heroin)
[/ QUOTE ]
This might seem a bit irrelevant (apologies in advance) but wasn't there an episode of Desperate Housewives in which the mum takes the drug prescribed to calm her hyper kids down and it speeds her up?
flying_change
Well-Known Member
OK, putting my flippancy aside......
I do wonder if all these food additives and junkfood diets might be a large part of the cause.
I do wonder if all these food additives and junkfood diets might be a large part of the cause.
Tia
Well-Known Member
I think that's exactly what has done it! Pleased I am not alone in this thinking.
I have a lively child (as you know, having met her
) but she isn't overboard like these kids with ADHD......could it be because she is not fed pre-prepared foods and never goes to fast-food joints?
I have a lively child (as you know, having met her
sojeph
Well-Known Member
ADHD behaviour is quite different to your regular naughty behaviour. A child with ADHD may climb to the top of the highest tree and think nothing of jumping off the top of it. Even a naughty child would think twice about doing something like that. Its very scary to see. I think its great that its now recognised and I know that my Mum would certainly have been investigating ADHD when my brother was a lad had it been recognised 40 years ago. It may have been a very different story for him and our family and he may well be alive now. I do also agree though that some do jump on the bandwagon as with most things.