Ladyinred
Well-Known Member
Yep. A marketing opportunity filled by a gadget. Knowledge and experience will beat a Dually hands down any day.
duallys
- Thread starter lolobundo
- Start date
Yep. A marketing opportunity filled by a gadget. Knowledge and experience will beat a Dually hands down any day.
pastie2
Well-Known Member
No sliding to and fro at all NP if correctly used. As for your rope halter, I think in most ponies I have seen with them on, a DVD is essential. I am thinking of welsh ponies and cob youngstock shown in hand with the nose piece too low so that the handler thinks that he has some sort of control. Like anything it depends on the ability of the user. A Chifeny in the right hands does its job well, in the wrong hands it can break a horses jaw. Also I have yet to see a pony in a rope halter that stays put, the handler is forever re-arranging it!!
YorksG
Over the hill and far awa
Echo NP, rope halters do the job, cost less than 1/10th of the price of a Dually, can be picked up at agricultural merchants, no need for internet, no need for DVD. There are much better ways of loading than tugging on a Dually IMO
only_me
Well-Known Member
pft 
NP getting all the credit when I said a normal rope halter first lol!
NP getting all the credit when I said a normal rope halter first
lol!
Ladyinred
Well-Known Member
no credit..
we is in the sensible club
the why spend 50 quid, when less than a fiver does the same job club
Maybe because we have seen the fads and fashions come and go and know that there are no miracles or quick fixes. Only commonsense.
Or, then again, maybe we are just old.
fidleyspromise
Well-Known Member
My YO has a Dually so I watched the DvD and then popped it on my mare. My YO swears by it, if hers misbehave but I found that I had to readjust it to get it to release so for me personally, the release was too late.
Having used both it and a rope halter I prefer the rope halter which, I have found to not need adjusting and I can carry on working with both ponies much easier. Especially as it helped to teach my unhandled, 13.2hh 3yo how not to fight back
Foxy53 - it is what Monty Roberts uses to control a horse. Basically a headcollar with a rope over the nose and it has two rings on either side so that you can lead horse as normal, or if it starts to play up, attach leadrope to side ring and if horse goes against the pressure, then the rope over nose tightens and when horse stops fighting, the pressure is supposed to be released. Hope this makes sense
Having used both it and a rope halter I prefer the rope halter which, I have found to not need adjusting and I can carry on working with both ponies much easier. Especially as it helped to teach my unhandled, 13.2hh 3yo how not to fight back
Foxy53 - it is what Monty Roberts uses to control a horse. Basically a headcollar with a rope over the nose and it has two rings on either side so that you can lead horse as normal, or if it starts to play up, attach leadrope to side ring and if horse goes against the pressure, then the rope over nose tightens and when horse stops fighting, the pressure is supposed to be released. Hope this makes sense
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Foxy53
Well-Known Member
Aaaahhhh - that's the reason I haven't come across this gimmick then - I purposefully avoid cowboys.....
only_me
Well-Known Member
pastie2
Well-Known Member
no credit..
we is in the sensible club
the why spend 50 quid, when less than a fiver does the same job club
But it DOESNT. Will we be seeing race horses going down to the start with rope halters instead of a MRs if they were that good to help the stall handlers, pull on a rope halter and it puts pressure on the poll which then gets a horse to fight against the pressure. I have never seen a rope halter release the pressure immediately, not for £2.50 anyway!
Steorra
Well-Known Member
pft
NP getting all the credit when I said a normal rope halter first
Ahem!
I'll let it rest if i can join the sensible club (possibly as dunce member).
ticketyboo
Active Member
probably going to get slated here but I own a Dually, would strongly recommend one and am very much into the IH way, went on one of their 5-day foundation courses as a helper, learnt loads and really really do not think they are a 'gimmick' or 'a quick fix'. IH (Intelligent Horsemanship) is all about the horse and surely the horse should come first, I read a lot here about how much we all love our horses, so anything to make their and our lives easier, surely must be a good thing.
Mony Roberts is a God in my eyes, he is a very quiet and unasuming man who wants to make horses lives better. I dont think you could do this with just a gimmick.
I also rate Kelly Marks - another slating possibly lol - who is a really nice woman, always found that she has had time for people and only ever wants to help.
Me, Tic & the Dually have come along in leaps and bounds, have used it many many times, do plenty of groundwork and it really helped to build up our relationship
Mony Roberts is a God in my eyes, he is a very quiet and unasuming man who wants to make horses lives better. I dont think you could do this with just a gimmick.
I also rate Kelly Marks - another slating possibly lol - who is a really nice woman, always found that she has had time for people and only ever wants to help.
Me, Tic & the Dually have come along in leaps and bounds, have used it many many times, do plenty of groundwork and it really helped to build up our relationship
pastie2
Well-Known Member
I'm 20
But brought up the old horsemanship way
I am 56, and I am open to new ideas. I have had horses all my life and I also was brought up the old horsemanship way!!
better half
Well-Known Member
Ticketyboo - Do you not think Join up is a gimmick! So they can sell more pressure halters and courses.
ticketyboo
Active Member
No, have done join-up with Tic, helped her, helped me. I have had some serious nerve issues after a bad fall, got Tic to help build up my confidence and it wasnt quite going to plan, did join-up, got my Dually and things have just got better and better. If that was down to the Dually and join-up or down to having more confidence in what i was doing, i cannot answer but it worked a dream for me and got my ex field mate to do join-up with their horse as they were having problems catching them and again, vast improvement.
I couldn't afford the course, it was £500 last year so i went along as a helper, met a 'for life' friend who has also helped me a great deal - all with the IH mindset - and its all gone from strength to strength.
I'm logged into IH forum as well and find both a great source of info and help
Has helped me with my confidence with Tic and that has helped in our relationship together.
Have you ever tried join-up yourself?
Tic was rearing, would barge me and i was on a downward spiral, the yard i was on were of the mind to 'give her a good smack' which isnt my way of thinking at all, when i train my dog, its not through kicking him, its through reward. With tic, its pressure and release when using the Dually but she is good as gold without it and if its because i feel i am more in control now or because she has learnt what is acceptable and what is not, i cant answer for sure, just know that i've had great results
xxx
better half
Well-Known Member
I am glad you found your confidence and it worked for you. Yes, I did the MRPC course in1996 and with experience have move on. When you stat to question the wall goes up.
Ladyinred
Well-Known Member
No, have done join-up with Tic, helped her, helped me. I have had some serious nerve issues after a bad fall, got Tic to help build up my confidence and it wasnt quite going to plan, did join-up, got my Dually and things have just got better and better. If that was down to the Dually and join-up or down to having more confidence in what i was doing, i cannot answer but it worked a dream for me and got my ex field mate to do join-up with their horse as they were having problems catching them and again, vast improvement.
I couldn't afford the course, it was £500 last year so i went along as a helper, met a 'for life' friend who has also helped me a great deal - all with the IH mindset - and its all gone from strength to strength.
I'm logged into IH forum as well and find both a great source of info and help
Has helped me with my confidence with Tic and that has helped in our relationship together.
Have you ever tried join-up yourself?
Tic was rearing, would barge me and i was on a downward spiral, the yard i was on were of the mind to 'give her a good smack' which isnt my way of thinking at all, when i train my dog, its not through kicking him, its through reward. With tic, its pressure and release when using the Dually but she is good as gold without it and if its because i feel i am more in control now or because she has learnt what is acceptable and what is not, i cant answer for sure, just know that i've had great results
xxx
<<Screams quietly and goes back to padded cell>>
prorider
Active Member
Anyway - back to the topic.
I am pretty sure the OP did not ask people to tell her she cannot handle her horse or that she is taking shortcuts. Without anyone knowing the situation, the OP or her horse these are incredibly rude sweeping generalisations that I, and I think she, would find offensive.
If people wish to discuss MR / IH / duallys in general feel free to start a new topic, however this one is asking what groundwork she can do with the dually before she tries it for loading.
I would recommend getting your local IH instructor out, which I think someone has already said is Suzanne Marshall. If you cannot get someone out then I would recommend posting this question on the IH website as you may get some useful answers on there.
Good luck with your horse, its a shame when they get ruined by a 'helpful' person. Its an even bigger shame that when you ask for help on here you just get rude comments.
I am pretty sure the OP did not ask people to tell her she cannot handle her horse or that she is taking shortcuts. Without anyone knowing the situation, the OP or her horse these are incredibly rude sweeping generalisations that I, and I think she, would find offensive.
If people wish to discuss MR / IH / duallys in general feel free to start a new topic, however this one is asking what groundwork she can do with the dually before she tries it for loading.
I would recommend getting your local IH instructor out, which I think someone has already said is Suzanne Marshall. If you cannot get someone out then I would recommend posting this question on the IH website as you may get some useful answers on there.
Good luck with your horse, its a shame when they get ruined by a 'helpful' person. Its an even bigger shame that when you ask for help on here you just get rude comments.
chestnut cob
Well-Known Member
Save your money, you can do all the ground work without a dually and get a better relationship with your pony. Using any pressure halters will set up resentment and you will not get a genuine result. It's like putting in a stronger bit rather than learning feel and communication.
^^ This ^^
I have one and it worked for a while (though my problem wasn't loading in particular, my horse was just rude and bargy) but once we got through the naughty behaviour which needed a control headcollar, he really started to resent it. I can't use it for loading now, though he can still be stubborn, as he loathes the pressure on his nose (and yes, I do know how to do pressure/release, have had Kelly Marks RAs out to help) and now rears when it is put on. IME the Dually was OK for a short term solution when I really needed to gain control of a potentially dangerous horse but for the fine tuning stuff, it is like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
leogeorge
Well-Known Member
I also rate Kelly Marks who is a really nice woman, always found that she has had time for people and only ever wants to help.
Well, I do so hope that she will be really nice and find the time to answer my earlier question....
IHK, I'm just wondering why am I seeing more and more photos of duallys that have had the rope bit covered in fleece or some other soft material? Is the rope proving to be a bit harsh on the nose?
Prorider.... its a shame when they get ruined by a 'helpful' person.
Yes, isn't it? Even more so, when that helpful person is a top professional armed with a Dually.
Well, I do so hope that she will be really nice and find the time to answer my earlier question....
IHK, I'm just wondering why am I seeing more and more photos of duallys that have had the rope bit covered in fleece or some other soft material? Is the rope proving to be a bit harsh on the nose?
Prorider.... its a shame when they get ruined by a 'helpful' person.
Yes, isn't it? Even more so, when that helpful person is a top professional armed with a Dually.
better half
Well-Known Member
The IH site is very censored so you'll get a very narrow view from there, thats why this forum is so good, if the advice to save money, time and the horse/OP relationship helps then it's good to talk.
Spyda
Well-Known Member
Uuummmmm... Most young healthy horses push the boundaries at some point during their early years and need confident and consistent education to learn the necessary manners and boundaries expected in a well mannered adult horse. Using a humane and effective tool to correct the young horse or to re-train an older one which wasn't taught the boundaries as a youngster, shouldn't be looked down upon. Not everyone experiencing difficultly with their horse can be blamed for it being down to their 'bad horse management'.
Good for those that buy themselves a £61 Dually and take the time to watch the accompanying DVD. Better that than some of the alternatives sadly adopted by the less conscientious horse handler in managing a stubborn or difficult animal.
^^^^^^^^^ Very valid point. ^^^^^^^^^
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flyingfeet
Well-Known Member
Just looked on eBay and some are asking £61 for a Dually! Bl**dy hell. How much????? Talk about inflation
Yep Monty just stuck his prices up by a whooping percentage, and with 20% VAT shortly, they will all be over £60
Spyda
Well-Known Member
No, I know you didn't say everyone but the implication is there.
The Dually can be used as a normal headcollar by attaching the lead rope to the under ring. The nose pressure does not have to be used or applied at all times when the Dually is worn. As for the pressure of the nose piece when it is being used; it is designed to release nose pressure instantly.
If any person buys a Dually and uses it by hauling on it continually or applying constant pressure on the rope piece across the horse's nose then they haven't watched (or understood) the accompanying DVD and shouldn't be using the device. Full stop. But neither would I want them using a chifney, Stephens or mouth chain, either. Hopfully anyone spending the money on a Dually will be conscientious enough to learn how to use the equipment correctly and effectively.
Let's face it, a chifney or chain is a lot cheaper to acquire and god knows how many horses out there are being tortured by these in inexperienced hands. Those are the people I'd label as using a quick fix to their bad horse management.
better half
Well-Known Member
better half
Well-Known Member
Did you let them know you had a problem with the RA's 'help' they are very good at making people feel it's their horse 'the worst one they have ever seen'. It is to easy to blame the horse not looking at the training methods used. This is so they can sell more halter and course rather than looking in to better ways that are about.
treacle_beastie
Well-Known Member
agree with all you have said
dany
Well-Known Member
At the moment, you can buy a pack for £61 from Monty's website that has:
A Dually and dvd
2 lungle lines
2 books
2 Caps
so its not that expensive.
Surely its choice and what works for your own horse? any piece of equipment can be used to abuse when used incorrectly, so its daft to say using a pressure halter is cruel. If the OP would like to try some ground work to improve behavior, then I commend her for trying to improve her knowledge. As without learning new things first hand, they will never be able to have a considered opinion on NH or anything else!
Fellewell
Well-Known Member
I don't doubt that Monty Roberts is a very fine horseman. Thing is, he grew up on a rodeo ranch and I just don't believe a lifetime of skill and knowledge is readily transferable, however many courses/DVDs you watch. He did say though (paraphrasing here) if you approach a problem as though you have all day it will take fifteen mininutes but if you try and cure a problem in fifteen minutes it will take all day.Therein lies the problem with gadgets and a quick fix so why did he push a Dually halter?
Empy&Treacle
Well-Known Member
I completely agree too! Everyone likes using different tools and there is nothing wrong with that!
I had a dually and it worked wonders on my bargy 4YO. I just sold my 2 month old dually (with the DVD) on eBay for £31!!
For the OP's sake. I read the Kelly Marks, Perfect Manners book and found it to be a great help when used in conjunction with the dually. Otherwise I would get your IH RA out to help, like others have suggested.
Spyda
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Spyda
Let's face it, a chifney or chain is a lot cheaper to acquire and god knows how many horses out there are being tortured by these in inexperienced hands. Those are the people I'd label as using a quick fix to their bad horse management.
Can I gather from your response that you've been fortune enough not to have seen the scarring and bone deformation that can result from a nose chain being consistently and agressively used? Sadly it's not as uncommon as we'd like to believe. And before you retort - No! I haven't [yet] read nor seen damage caused by a Dually. That said, in the wrong hands anything has the potential to cause pain and harm.
Also, doesn't any rational person easily imagine the discomfort a chifney could cause inside a horse's mouth if unappropriately used? Sadly I've seen chifneys very roughly used, far too many times, by far too many so-called 'experienced' horse handlers, over the past 45 years. If you find the term 'torture' extreme - well, I am sorry, but that's exactly what I'd call the misuse of a chifney or nose/mouth chain. I've seen the damage these can potentially cause.
Anyway, goodness knows why we are disagreeing! I have nothing against using rope halters (I have one!) And I also agree that many horse problems can be directly related to poor horse handling - mainly through the human's lack of experience to 'read' the horse's body language and anticipate problems before they arise and become established. That is something that comes only through time and experience and cannot be bought off-the-shelf from the tack shop.
Let's face it, a chifney or chain is a lot cheaper to acquire and god knows how many horses out there are being tortured by these in inexperienced hands. Those are the people I'd label as using a quick fix to their bad horse management.
Can I gather from your response that you've been fortune enough not to have seen the scarring and bone deformation that can result from a nose chain being consistently and agressively used? Sadly it's not as uncommon as we'd like to believe. And before you retort - No! I haven't [yet] read nor seen damage caused by a Dually. That said, in the wrong hands anything has the potential to cause pain and harm.
Also, doesn't any rational person easily imagine the discomfort a chifney could cause inside a horse's mouth if unappropriately used? Sadly I've seen chifneys very roughly used, far too many times, by far too many so-called 'experienced' horse handlers, over the past 45 years. If you find the term 'torture' extreme - well, I am sorry, but that's exactly what I'd call the misuse of a chifney or nose/mouth chain. I've seen the damage these can potentially cause.
Anyway, goodness knows why we are disagreeing! I have nothing against using rope halters (I have one!) And I also agree that many horse problems can be directly related to poor horse handling - mainly through the human's lack of experience to 'read' the horse's body language and anticipate problems before they arise and become established. That is something that comes only through time and experience and cannot be bought off-the-shelf from the tack shop.