duallys

[YorksG]

Thing is, he grew up on a rodeo ranch


And this is one of the reasons I have problems with the way the whole NH/IH is marketed. As has been pointed out here before, the tradition here is very different. while it is possible to acknowledge that there has been bad practice here, it is substantially different from rodeo breaking and handling. We have a good many excellent horsemen here, who have not felt the need to create gadgets etc to work quietly and humanely with horses.
I must also say that the inclusion of a cap in the set made me fall about laughing, obviously so essential

 

[flyingfeet]

So as I didn't actually help the OP - I have duallys, be nice, rope headcollars and chifneys

I never use the chifney, it was for one stubborn hano mare who would load. It didn't help and has been redundant. I'd rather not use a bit from the ground, as want to keep the mouth pristine

I have rope halters, which I use every day, partly because I hate buckle and partly because they work better. These are nice thick rope and not thin and cutting!

My duallys I use a lot, but tends to be for leading one when riding another, loading and training the babies. Yes I could just use a rope over the nose, but the duallys work better, they are designed right and release faster. I also love them for lungeing, as find they often work better than a lunge cavesson. I like them for loading as you don't have to change halter and its safe to travel with them.

The Be Nice is reserved for tough cookies, and ironically is back in use at the moment, for a mare that is being difficult to load and she responded better to the Be Nice than nose pressure from the Dually. However when loading she have to wear 2 halters as you cannot tie up in a Be Nice (we obviously you can, but its a very bad idea). I would never use a Be Nice other than for retraining bad habits (i.e. would not use it on one of my homebred babies)

I find the thin "natural" halters that are sold are too sharp, and I don't like using chains as they don't release fast enough.

 

[chestnut cob]

Did you let them know you had a problem with the RA's 'help' they are very good at making people feel it's their horse 'the worst one they have ever seen'. It is to easy to blame the horse not looking at the training methods used. This is so they can sell more halter and course rather than looking in to better ways that are about.

I never said I had a problem with the RA, just that I didn't feel the Dually helped matters in the long run. The RA was actually brilliant and gave me a lot of very sensible advice. I never found her to be at all pushy and she really didn't plug any of the KM/MR products. She came out to me, was honest and told me how my behaviour and handling was creating problems (though she did also say the horse had been allowed to be rude for a long time before I got him so not just my fault!), and helped train me so I could train him. For me, the groundwork lesson itself was great, no different to having a riding lesson - I had taken on a very big, rude horse who I struggled to cope with so the RA sessions helped to see what I was doing wrong and how to rectify it so that he behaved better. She gave me some good exercises and a training plan. I now have a horse who instead of biting, barging, spinning round, kicking and throwing himself on top of his handler whilst being led, can be led by a total novice in a normal headcollar.

When my horse was downright dangerous then the Dually was helpful but now he is well mannered, he objects to it. It is too crude for a generally well mannered horse, IMHO.

 

[sleepingdragon10]

Save your money, you can do all the ground work without a dually and get a better relationship with your pony. Using any pressure halters will set up resentment and you will not get a genuine result. It's like putting in a stronger bit rather than learning feel and communication.

Really don't agree with you here at all. Using a Dually will not result in the OP's pony becoming resentful at all, but it may well allow the OP to load her pony without an argument and have the pony learn to respect her when she's handling him from the ground.

OP, I've used a Dually with my youngster who can be quite arrogant and bolshy, and the Dually just makes him stop and think......there's no constant pulling, the pressure is released very quickly, and they soon learn to yield to the pressure.

 

[sleepingdragon10]

i dislike anything that is so widely marketed as a "fix it all" when 99% of the time its the idiotic owner that needs training"!!

The key to using any piece of equipment is knowing when, and how, to use it.
I have, and do use a Dually on Lukey, but it's only employed occasionally.......pony learnt that he could pull daughter over and grab for the grass in a normal halter, but having taught her how to use the Dually she can now lead him in, on a loose rein, only using the nose pressure to remind him of his manners if he tries it on.

 

[suestowford]

Going slightly off topic...have you tried to buy a traditional rope halter lately (this is to those who advocate them)? I only ask as last time I wanted one I went to my local tackshop, only to be told 'we can't get those any more'. I found one in the agricultural shop in the cattle section but the rope was soft and stretchy. When I tried it on the pony and he pulled away, the halter went tight as a snare thanks to the rope stretching and couldn't release pressure because of the softness of the rope.

If anyone can recommend somewhere I can buy a good rope halter that isn't made of soft and fluffy rope I'd be very grateful as the last decent one I have is beginning to fray a little.

 

[Chavhorse]

Save your money, you can do all the ground work without a dually and get a better relationship with your pony. Using any pressure halters will set up resentment and you will not get a genuine result. It's like putting in a stronger bit rather than learning feel and communication.

I am sure quick fixes can work, but it is not being documented how many times it causes more problems. I am just for people having a more informed choice. They are sold 'for the good of the horse' along with Join-up and this is misleading as pressure halters and join up cause submission not co-operation.

Ticketyboo - Do you not think Join up is a gimmick! So they can sell more pressure halters and courses.

I am glad you found your confidence and it worked for you. Yes, I did the MRPC course in1996 and with experience have move on. When you stat to question the wall goes up.

The IH site is very censored so you'll get a very narrow view from there, thats why this forum is so good, if the advice to save money, time and the horse/OP relationship helps then it's good to talk.

'Armed' I agree they should not be sold like a club badge. They would be better sold with a health warning.

Pressure halters can cause any horse to rear! it is flooding 'kill or cure approach to horse training'. You can complain once your horse has gone over backwards in 'professional' hands you may get a free book, as free helper course place or the latest is a complaints No. with a phone call from the RA.

Once a horse has hardened to a pressure halter you then have a bigger problem. Take your time and learn ground work rules but a pressure halter is not needed. £61 a time no wonder they want you to buy one, but it is not for the good of the horse.

Did you let them know you had a problem with the RA's 'help' they are very good at making people feel it's their horse 'the worst one they have ever seen'. It is to easy to blame the horse not looking at the training methods used. This is so they can sell more halter and course rather than looking in to better ways that are about.

Oh Better Half please give it a rest. I have never ever seen your husbands work rubbished on any of the IH sites although reading some of the vitriolic stuff you post on any subject to do with Monty Roberts or IH they are far better men then me Gunga Din!

And no I am not a fire breathing Monty or Kelly or IH fan, I read books by everyone and take what I will, the only trainer I will not read is your husband as frankly you have succeeded putting me off him utterly, unless of course the poor man has no idea what you post on this open forum in which case I am doing him a disservice !

 

[better half]

Really don't agree with you here at all. Using a Dually will not result in the OP's pony becoming resentful at all, but it may well allow the OP to load her pony without an argument and have the pony learn to respect her when she's handling him from the ground.

OP, I've used a Dually with my youngster who can be quite arrogant and bolshy, and the Dually just makes him stop and think......there's no constant pulling, the pressure is released very quickly, and they soon learn to yield to the pressure.

I learnt dog training with a choke chain 20 yrs ago the dog world has moved on. The horse world has some way to go. Is a pressure halter not like the choke chain. Horses and dogs can learn with out that sort of pressure.

 

[better half]

Chavhorse I get a lot of phone calls each year when it all goes wrong for many people so I feel like people should be open about the problems pressure halters can cause.

 

[Chavhorse]

Chavhorse I get a lot of phone calls each year when it all goes wrong for many people so I feel like people should be open about the problems pressure halters can cause.

BH there is open and sounding like you are waging a vendetta, anyway whatever I just feel the way you conduct yourself on here sometimes in particular on this subject is totally non professional and does not place either you or your OH in a particularly good light.

 

[Kenzo]

We'll I've never used one

I feel rather left out on this post now, although I had a very close encounter with one, here's my story....

Horse on our yard has one (livery oss) which I needed turn out one morning and was warned I needed his halter on otherwise he'd drag you off your feet!

Well it was hung up with his nice leather headcoller, so picked this rope halter thingy up and thought eh how the dickery doo does thing go on, I'd not a dolly blue nor could I be bothered faffing about with it so on went his leather headcoller and I led him to his field, never been any problems.

The end.

 

[Ladyinred]

We'll I've never used one

I feel rather left out on this post now, although I had a very close encounter with one, here's my story....

Horse on our yard has one (livery oss) which I needed turn out one morning and was warned I needed his halter on otherwise he'd drag you off your feet!

Well it was hung up with his nice leather headcoller, so picked this rope halter thingy up and thought eh how the dickery doo does thing go on, I'd not a dolly blue nor could I be bothered faffing about with it so on went his leather headcoller and I led him to his field, never been any problems.

The end.

This is it tho', isn't it. It's the owners that need the doolalley, rarely the horse.

 

[fizzer]

I like the fact that it does not always have to be used as a dually!! you have the option to use as a normal headcollar( unlike the rope halters).

The Dually only comes into itself when you change onto the training ring.

 

[Ladyinred]

I like the fact that it does not always have to be used as a dually!! you have the option to use as a normal headcollar( unlike the rope halters).

The Dually only comes into itself when you change onto the training ring.

An 'ordinary' rope halter (as opposed to a thin string NH type thing) is, in fact, easily converted to a non-pressure headcollar by the simple addition of a knot, such as we used all the time as kids.

 

[Kenzo]

This is it tho', isn't it. It's the owners that need the doolalley, rarely the horse.

Well I duno really, I'm not knocking them, safety is the most important thing and if it offers the owner more control then fair do's, it's just that I've not actually ever had to use one, which I'm lucky I suppose.

There's been 2 others on our yard that used them (one with a youngster) and were into all that NH kinda stuff again not knocking it, but neither could you still lead now round the village without having a bridle on and being dragged about or fear of the horse escaping and one them was handled from day one as a foal, although I would say it was over handled.

I'm a firm believer that manners begin and should be taught before they even step foot out of the stable door, without equipment and just by your voice and hand commands, if there not listening then, your pretty much wasting your time trying to do it when the horse is on the move.

Even with the most well behaved horse on the yard, anyone that handles that horse should never ever let their guard down, always expect the same respect from that horse every time you handle it, if the owner/groom starts slacking, the horse will.

However people have to manage horses that have been brought up like this or got away with it with previous owners, so I can see why people do need to use them also.

That my view on it all anyway.

 

[tacallor]

I have one and I think it's fab, also agree with fizzer in that it's good as it's multi functional! Some exercises i've been doing with it are backing up: i walk into his space and if he doesn't get back he gets one constant pressure on the dually until he utters to move his feet then the pressure is released instantly. It took a while for mine to grasp the concept but now he walks back freely as soon as i step into his space

Someone mentioned earlier about the walking away and 'oh look you've followed me!' exercise, (which i'm sure has a better name!!) but that is a good one to do and is very easy.

Additionally you could do the pressure on her body, e.g. press your fist into her hindquarters and as soon as she motions to move away from that pressure, release it. this isn't really do to with the dually i guess but is just a good thing to do anyway as i think it helps them to respect who's in charge. (I had a intelligent horsemanship RA to come out and see me and we did this exercise)

hope this is helpful (please no critics/slaters i am only trying to help!)

 

[fizzer]

An 'ordinary' rope halter (as opposed to a thin string NH type thing) is, in fact, easily converted to a non-pressure headcollar by the simple addition of a knot, such as we used all the time as kids.

Sorry, I meant the NH halters!!! not a normal rope one.

 

[georgiegirl]

not read all the replys about pros cons etc etc cant be bothered..... however all I will say is it worked for one very very difficult mare i had. Ive had horses for 23 years and my mum has had them the past 35 years so were not exactly inexperienced. Neither am I a tree hugger or into 'natural horsemanship' (which i still maintain isnt natural horsemanship just bloody common sense) wouldnt say it will work for everything and of course many inexperienced people will be duped into shelling out for one of these before going down other possible avenues, however like i say, in the right circumstances they are a useful bit of kit.

 

[skewby]

Question - do the trad rope halters have the strategically placed knots, a la parelli ones?

 

[ester]

nope just bog standard rope. http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf/store/products/cattle-halter am guessing this is NP's one.

 

[only_me]

These are the type of ones I use. Bought it off ebay for £5
http://www.bottlesandbridles.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000002/lucky-halter.jpg

Work very well, and no need to use them all the time. Miracle workers imo!