Tinkerbee
Well-Known Member
our foal was only officially named when he was 6 months...
and the latest filly doesnt have a name yet
and the latest filly doesnt have a name yet
Dutch Factory Farmed Horses
- Thread starter airedale
- Start date
StaceyTanglewood
Well-Known Member
but horses such as oldenburg have to be graded over there as they dont hold gradings over here !!!
minesadouble
Well-Known Member
I am no expert on breeding competition horses in this country or any other, but we do breed welsh ponies and riding ponies and a lot of welsh and riding ponies are sold to Germany, Australia the Netherlands etc. every year. I personally think that if people want to compete they will buy the best they can find - regardless of country of origin, I certainly wouldn't expect someone to buy a British bred animal if it were inferior to a foreign animal purely because of principles.
On the continent they have had an established breeding programme for many years unlike the UK.
As far as surplus stock goes, I know of more than one stud in this country that routinely cull all conformationally substandard animals - I am not saying I agree with this practise but I can certainly see the logic behind it. (If anything we breed is not suitable for showing or breeding we break them and sell them without a prefix as pony club ponies- a slightly less ruthless alternative!).
I do find it hard to believe that the sole reason there are fewer British bred horses at the top of their discipline is purely because they are 'unfashionable' in some way.
B.T.W. post just a general comment rather than aimed at anyone in particular!!!
On the continent they have had an established breeding programme for many years unlike the UK.
As far as surplus stock goes, I know of more than one stud in this country that routinely cull all conformationally substandard animals - I am not saying I agree with this practise but I can certainly see the logic behind it. (If anything we breed is not suitable for showing or breeding we break them and sell them without a prefix as pony club ponies- a slightly less ruthless alternative!).
I do find it hard to believe that the sole reason there are fewer British bred horses at the top of their discipline is purely because they are 'unfashionable' in some way.
B.T.W. post just a general comment rather than aimed at anyone in particular!!!
magic104
Well-Known Member
You are talking about;
Holme Park Legend
Great news from Germany! Holme Park Legend has been graded by the Trakehner Verband. He passed his 30 day Performance Test in Schliekau with an outstanding overall score of 8.06!! Congratulations to his breeders, Susan and Paul Attew of Holme Park Stud.
Yes it is great news, and an example of a stud that has spent years researching their blood lines & only breeding from the best graded mares. Does not mean that they turn away poor outside mares, just that their own breeding programme is to breed from the best to achieve the best.
I agree & again have made comments on earlier posts that the WB is very often made up of UK TB's, again LadyKiller being one of the most famous. Does not take away the fact that they can & do produce better horses, & I mean produce as in their training as well as breeding. And it is not the norm to back & ride 2yr old either. This debate started because of the comments made in liking them to chicken farms, which is just not the case. Also because they do not name their foals, again I repeat, horses/animals do not care what they are called, you could call them sh-tbag, they would not be offended. I think the issue is dont just single out one country, and if you do ensure you have full facts, not just based on the odd one out of hundreds.
Holme Park Legend
Great news from Germany! Holme Park Legend has been graded by the Trakehner Verband. He passed his 30 day Performance Test in Schliekau with an outstanding overall score of 8.06!! Congratulations to his breeders, Susan and Paul Attew of Holme Park Stud.
Yes it is great news, and an example of a stud that has spent years researching their blood lines & only breeding from the best graded mares. Does not mean that they turn away poor outside mares, just that their own breeding programme is to breed from the best to achieve the best.
I agree & again have made comments on earlier posts that the WB is very often made up of UK TB's, again LadyKiller being one of the most famous. Does not take away the fact that they can & do produce better horses, & I mean produce as in their training as well as breeding. And it is not the norm to back & ride 2yr old either. This debate started because of the comments made in liking them to chicken farms, which is just not the case. Also because they do not name their foals, again I repeat, horses/animals do not care what they are called, you could call them sh-tbag, they would not be offended. I think the issue is dont just single out one country, and if you do ensure you have full facts, not just based on the odd one out of hundreds.
Tempi
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
but horses such as oldenburg have to be graded over there as they dont hold gradings over here !!!
[/ QUOTE ]
exactly.....
but horses such as oldenburg have to be graded over there as they dont hold gradings over here !!!
[/ QUOTE ]
exactly.....
StaceyTanglewood
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but horses such as oldenburg have to be graded over there as they dont hold gradings over here !!!
[/ QUOTE ]
exactly.....
[/ QUOTE ]
tell me about it if i have a colt next week in 3 years time ill be off to germany !!! woo hoo atleast they hold the foal inspection over here !!!
[ QUOTE ]
but horses such as oldenburg have to be graded over there as they dont hold gradings over here !!!
[/ QUOTE ]
exactly.....
[/ QUOTE ]
tell me about it if i have a colt next week in 3 years time ill be off to germany !!! woo hoo atleast they hold the foal inspection over here !!!
Faithkat
Well-Known Member
I agree. I think what "we" have to do is publicise the British-bred tag rather more. Carnaval Path is trumpeted as being British Bred despite being by a Dutch Warmblood but, like you say, the Warmblood was produced originally via the use of TBs. . . . but the ethos that needs to be got over is the belief that the only way to get a decent competition horse is go abroad. I find that quite upsetting particularly when I could steer people in the direction of some lovely British-bred youngsters. Mind you, the stud in question never has a problem selling them anyway. And on the subject of good British-bred horses, they currently have a 3/4 year old that was an embryo transplant from Corrada before she went to the States. It's as sharp as knife but VERY talented . . . . not very pretty. . . . but VERY talented.
mistered
Well-Known Member
The aim of any stud must surely be to breed successfull horses, to do this you must understand the demands of your chosen discipline and also understand the attributes that are requied to achieve success.
In this country we rely greatly on luck. don't get me wrong, the stories of a farmer using the local TB Stallion on his Shire mare and producing a 'Grade A' Showjumper are fantastic, but you could not build a business or a reputation, based on 'pot luck'.
I prefer to leave breeding to the experts, i have been lucky enough to breed 4 healthy foals over recent years using well bred mares and european stallions. there are lots of 'ups and downs' and it's a time consuming and costly process. i'd much rather take a trip to a stud and buy a nice two/three year old from a choice of 20/30 well kept, well fed, well bred horses that have been managed correctly within excellent facilities including acres of well managed grazing! i don't really care if this is in the UK, europe or Ireland.
Let's face it, we are years behind the rest of Europe and Ireland when it comes to breeding, this is far more than a 'fad' or 'fashion' - take a look at the start list in any international SJ class and have a look at the breeding of each horse......
In this country we rely greatly on luck. don't get me wrong, the stories of a farmer using the local TB Stallion on his Shire mare and producing a 'Grade A' Showjumper are fantastic, but you could not build a business or a reputation, based on 'pot luck'.
I prefer to leave breeding to the experts, i have been lucky enough to breed 4 healthy foals over recent years using well bred mares and european stallions. there are lots of 'ups and downs' and it's a time consuming and costly process. i'd much rather take a trip to a stud and buy a nice two/three year old from a choice of 20/30 well kept, well fed, well bred horses that have been managed correctly within excellent facilities including acres of well managed grazing! i don't really care if this is in the UK, europe or Ireland.
Let's face it, we are years behind the rest of Europe and Ireland when it comes to breeding, this is far more than a 'fad' or 'fashion' - take a look at the start list in any international SJ class and have a look at the breeding of each horse......
airedale
Well-Known Member
but that is because it is a german breed
you wouldn't necessarily be unsurprised to have e.g. no New Forest breed grading in France or whatever as that is a UK breed
Now if you'd bought or bred a british warmblood or hannoverian you wouldn't have to goto germany to get it graded ;-)
however it still remains that we are very bad at marketing our product and very good at shooting ourselves in the foot
how many times have I been to olympia e.g. and seen the breeding of the foreign horses listed and a lot of the UK horses not listed - that is something that would be so easy to address
you wouldn't necessarily be unsurprised to have e.g. no New Forest breed grading in France or whatever as that is a UK breed
Now if you'd bought or bred a british warmblood or hannoverian you wouldn't have to goto germany to get it graded ;-)
however it still remains that we are very bad at marketing our product and very good at shooting ourselves in the foot
how many times have I been to olympia e.g. and seen the breeding of the foreign horses listed and a lot of the UK horses not listed - that is something that would be so easy to address
jumpthemoon
Well-Known Member
I've got a foreign horse and TBH I think most of the time they are produced much more professionally than here. I think we have a lot to learn from our European conterparts - not just in breeding and in producing of horses, but in equitation as well. Sure there are some bad eggs out there, but you can be certain there are bad eggs here too. We should stop slagging them off and look at what they do to make them so respected.
airedale
Well-Known Member
so what makes them 'produced much more professionally' ???
do you mean they are better 'cos they can do canter pirouettes at 4 and jump 4 ft as foals (reported and photographed in H&H 6 months ago) ??
do you mean having professional bereiters doing extensive sitting trot and collected work on them at two ?
I would agree that some of their equitation rider training is very good and very consistent - however I don't think they (yet) have the litigation culture we have over here where young riders are not even permitted to ride without stirrups in case they fall off and sue somebody
good riding comes from a strong independent seat and good balance and feel. You cannot develop an independent seat without riding without stirrups and even better, jumping without stirrups or bareback - as was taught when I learnt to ride
You CAN still find proper equitation training in this country but it seems to be limited to the cavalry and the mounted police - where the instructees learn that falling off is part of riding and you just get back on again. The riders aren't worse here - they are trying to train and teach with H&SE, compensation cultrue and insurance companies tying their hands behind their backs - but that is a topic for another thread
long gone are the days of going up the jumping lane with no reins, no stirrups, a 10bob note under your knees and your arms out to the side or behind your back
do you mean they are better 'cos they can do canter pirouettes at 4 and jump 4 ft as foals (reported and photographed in H&H 6 months ago) ??
do you mean having professional bereiters doing extensive sitting trot and collected work on them at two ?
I would agree that some of their equitation rider training is very good and very consistent - however I don't think they (yet) have the litigation culture we have over here where young riders are not even permitted to ride without stirrups in case they fall off and sue somebody
good riding comes from a strong independent seat and good balance and feel. You cannot develop an independent seat without riding without stirrups and even better, jumping without stirrups or bareback - as was taught when I learnt to ride
You CAN still find proper equitation training in this country but it seems to be limited to the cavalry and the mounted police - where the instructees learn that falling off is part of riding and you just get back on again. The riders aren't worse here - they are trying to train and teach with H&SE, compensation cultrue and insurance companies tying their hands behind their backs - but that is a topic for another thread
long gone are the days of going up the jumping lane with no reins, no stirrups, a 10bob note under your knees and your arms out to the side or behind your back
jumpthemoon
Well-Known Member
Airedale, I agree that the horses are sometimes produce in a too much too soon manner, but it is not all of them and the point I was making is that they take their riding a lot more seriously than a lot of people over here. This is evident in their competition circles where we have people kicking and flapping round a novice XC course hanging on to the horses mouth - the riding seems to be a much higher standard than here - hence the training of the horses.
I think it is very noble of you to try to promote British Bred horses and I think we should do all we can to improve the standards over here and breed, produce and properly market more quality equines. I was merely making the point that they do some thing very well and we should not be blinded by the fact that they are European and try to learn from them. I know what you mean abou H&SE and litigation and I think it does have a big impact on our riding nowadays (sadly), but like you say, that's another subject.
I think it is very noble of you to try to promote British Bred horses and I think we should do all we can to improve the standards over here and breed, produce and properly market more quality equines. I was merely making the point that they do some thing very well and we should not be blinded by the fact that they are European and try to learn from them. I know what you mean abou H&SE and litigation and I think it does have a big impact on our riding nowadays (sadly), but like you say, that's another subject.
magic104
Well-Known Member
My daughter learnt to ride on the lunge without stirrups or reins, she can also jump up to 2.9 because I agree this is the best & quickest way to learn to balance your own body, so you are not holding on with the reins. I really do not know why you think all Europeans ride their young horses as follows do you mean having professional bereiters doing extensive sitting trot and collected work on them at two ? Honestly this is such rubbish, it is not the norm at all. I would love to know what studs you have visited & where you are basing info like do you mean they are better 'cos they can do canter pirouettes at 4 and jump 4 ft as foals (reported and photographed in H&H 6 months ago) ?? Where are foals jumping 4ft?? Yes I have seen Paul Schockemohle sending yearlings over fences as one offs to see their technique, they are not jumped on a regular basis at all. Also some yards will put poles down & let loose a group of youngsters. Also it is not the norm to work 2yrs olds in a collected manner either or ask 4yr olds to do canter pirouettes. You are making sweeping statements & insinuating that all this is the norm & goes on all the time, what utter rubbish. How many times to you have to be informed for horses competing into late teens early 20s. What is the point in them spending all their time trying to breed good quality horses, to break them down before they start their ridden career, because I can assure you they would be no good to anyone. So were we all to believe that in this country all show jumpers were rapping their horses with poles or dressing them in hedgehog skins to make them pick their front legs up? I mean after all this was reported in equine publications, so surely this means it was the norm! You keep harping back to the Europeans as well, why is that? Have you not seen what other countries expect of their 2yrs olds? Is it different because they are QHs or TBs, are they anymore mature in their brains & bodies compared to WBs. As already mentioned instead of berating the Europeans we should remember that they had the knowledge to take our TBs like Ladykiller & Dark Roland & make them immortal. In case you did not know Dark Roland was sold to Germany & along with Loviers became very influential in their breeding programme, especially with the show jumping lines. We had these stallions 1st, so why could the British not have bred the likes of Furioso, & Boy (who was by Ladykiller) & ridden by Eddie Macken? Could it be that we just did not have the knowledge or inclination?
sallyf
Well-Known Member
Furioso most likely was british bred as he was by Precipitation who was an Ascot gold cup winner and went to stud in England.
One of my best brood mares who is english TB and my small TB stallion both go back to precipitation as do alot of the best eventers and showjumpers.
It is actually Precipitation where the jumping ability throws from.
Good old british breeding .
You might find this link interesting click on the info box and read about him.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/precipitation
One of my best brood mares who is english TB and my small TB stallion both go back to precipitation as do alot of the best eventers and showjumpers.
It is actually Precipitation where the jumping ability throws from.
Good old british breeding .
You might find this link interesting click on the info box and read about him.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/precipitation
tigers_eye
Well-Known Member
Do you know what bugs me most about this thread (and this isn't aimed at you exclusively magic))? Everyone keeps referring to the Europeans and the British..... Britain has been part of Europe for 34 years, so whatever facts/theories/generalisations you have all been stating about the europeans does include UK residents too
.
jumpthemoon
Well-Known Member
We really mean 'the rest of the Western Europeans' but that would take too long to type out each time
magic104
Well-Known Member
No offence taken, but I have to use the term already been bannded about. I am sorry if it annoys, but it annoys me to keep reading about 2yrs olds being expected to do collected work & cope with constant sitting trot, sorry but this is so untrue. But you have made a very valid point.
tigers_eye
Well-Known Member
It is more the island mentality that bugs me to be honest - us v them. Well from a riders' point of view I judge each horse on its merits, I'm pretty sure every horse I've ever sat on has been european - ie. born within europe! I would like to see a formailsed approach to teaching here, ie. teaching people to be riders of young horses, as I think this gives young horses a better chance. Too many people here try to do it themselves and their horse ends up being a much lesser horse than it could have been. I do breed the odd one, and I sent the last one away to be broken in properly, and the next one will be.
AndyPandy
Well-Known Member
I have been trying to refer to "European" breeders as "continental" instead to try and prevent this kind of confusion
I don't think it's just a case of not advertising British Bred horses... It is fact that when continental breeders come here, they are generally unimpressed by the youngstock we produce, and when Brits go over to Holland, Germany etc. they are seen as unprofessional. I know of a couple of English breeders who have taken stallions to be graded abroad, and failed.
Now, I can imagine what you're thinking airedale - they failed the grading because of the "stereotype" about British bred horses, and the lack of positive things we say about our own horses. Well, it's not the case. The judges said that the horses were not good enough, and that the breeders appeared unprofessional. It's not just a case of inexperience, they were told that they looked like amateurs. Surely that might be indicative of a problem with British breeders, and many of their attitudes toward breeding.
I think it is a case of poor breeding (not enough quality stock produced) and poor production (being left for too long, or started by riders who are inexperienced or rough). I've seen plenty of young horses in this county who have been ruined by the age of 3/4/5 because they were backed and broken badly (too quick, too rough etc.), by riders in a hurry to get them looking flashy to sell at auction, or to start winning tests/competitions from an early age. I don't think this is a problem solely confined to continental breeders - it is a problem linked to impatient breeders and impatient riders.
I see part of the problem as this (obviously this does not concern TBs)... on the continent, there are farmers/recreational riders who have a few horses and breed for fun. They don't call themselves "studs" or have websites, or go out and try and win breeding classes. Then you have professional breeders who have 10-30 mares and try to breed quality horses on a medium scale, but have enough mares and knowledge to do so. They sell their horses at auction, or to larger studs, and are semi-professional. Then you have the breeding farms, which have 50-200+ mares and are run as a professional farming operation. It's mostly these places where we get our horses from. So, there are at least three tiers on the continent, with the chance of producing a top quality animal increasing as you go up each level.
In the UK, we have "recreational" breeders - almost all of which have stud cards, websites, call themselves studs, take their youngstock to breeding classes etc. And then we have a few semi-professional studs (or certainly the equivalent in continental terms), which are our "top" studs. Because of the fact that we have two tiers, and the fact that the recreationally bred stallions and mares are being sold on to be used for breeding, the quality of youngstock that is produced in this country is not only lower (on average), but is also diluted with youngstock, broodmares and stallions of unknown breeding.
It's like entering the national lottery (or lotto, whatever). A British stud buys 1 or 2 tickets, and hopes for the best. A continental stud buys 150 tickets. Who is more likely to win a prize?
I don't think it's just a case of not advertising British Bred horses... It is fact that when continental breeders come here, they are generally unimpressed by the youngstock we produce, and when Brits go over to Holland, Germany etc. they are seen as unprofessional. I know of a couple of English breeders who have taken stallions to be graded abroad, and failed.
Now, I can imagine what you're thinking airedale - they failed the grading because of the "stereotype" about British bred horses, and the lack of positive things we say about our own horses. Well, it's not the case. The judges said that the horses were not good enough, and that the breeders appeared unprofessional. It's not just a case of inexperience, they were told that they looked like amateurs. Surely that might be indicative of a problem with British breeders, and many of their attitudes toward breeding.
I think it is a case of poor breeding (not enough quality stock produced) and poor production (being left for too long, or started by riders who are inexperienced or rough). I've seen plenty of young horses in this county who have been ruined by the age of 3/4/5 because they were backed and broken badly (too quick, too rough etc.), by riders in a hurry to get them looking flashy to sell at auction, or to start winning tests/competitions from an early age. I don't think this is a problem solely confined to continental breeders - it is a problem linked to impatient breeders and impatient riders.
I see part of the problem as this (obviously this does not concern TBs)... on the continent, there are farmers/recreational riders who have a few horses and breed for fun. They don't call themselves "studs" or have websites, or go out and try and win breeding classes. Then you have professional breeders who have 10-30 mares and try to breed quality horses on a medium scale, but have enough mares and knowledge to do so. They sell their horses at auction, or to larger studs, and are semi-professional. Then you have the breeding farms, which have 50-200+ mares and are run as a professional farming operation. It's mostly these places where we get our horses from. So, there are at least three tiers on the continent, with the chance of producing a top quality animal increasing as you go up each level.
In the UK, we have "recreational" breeders - almost all of which have stud cards, websites, call themselves studs, take their youngstock to breeding classes etc. And then we have a few semi-professional studs (or certainly the equivalent in continental terms), which are our "top" studs. Because of the fact that we have two tiers, and the fact that the recreationally bred stallions and mares are being sold on to be used for breeding, the quality of youngstock that is produced in this country is not only lower (on average), but is also diluted with youngstock, broodmares and stallions of unknown breeding.
It's like entering the national lottery (or lotto, whatever). A British stud buys 1 or 2 tickets, and hopes for the best. A continental stud buys 150 tickets. Who is more likely to win a prize?
ihatework
Well-Known Member
I have read this thread with interest, and I have to say AndyPandy you talk a hell of a lot of sense!
Tierra
Well-Known Member
Im sorry but the generalisations in this thread are crazy.
Airedale its fine that you encourage people to respect British breeding and not ASSUME they need to go abroad to find a horse to do the job but some of what you say is going too far.
Not all the horses in northern Europe are kept in large barns where they never see the light of day. Many of the youngsters are out with the mares 24 hours.
Yes, we keep horses over here differently to in the UK, that does not necessarily mean we're sacrficing the horses well being in doing so. It's DIFFERENT but that does not give the UK some definitive voice on how to keep horses.
Im sure SOME places dont name their foals, slap a number on them and rush them through training. Im sure that occurs in the UK also but in no way is it the norm.
Some of the countries you are making blanket generalisations about are horse countries in every sense of the word with people who have a deep sense of pride about their horse culture (and im in one). The horses are treated as individuals in a sentimental way similar to what you would find in the UK.
In regards to the training - they arent all started at 2 years old for heavens sake. However i do believe that the standard of riding in Holland, Denmark and Germany is generally better which is why the horses often do more at a younger age. That doesnt mean they're doing canter pirouettes as 4 year olds. Ive been on yards in the UK with grand prix dressage riders where young stock from the above mentioned countries are arriving all the time, primarily sourced for clients. None of them have been over produced, they work nicely for their age but arguable (imo) of a better standard than the ones from the UK. No they're not doing canter piros or piaffe and passage. They're able to maintain their outlines, their able to doing some leg yielding and shoulder in but they're very much babies - albeit babies started well.
The people breaking and working the young horses over here have to hold their qualifications. Theres no ifs and buts about it. If you dont hold the bereiter exams or be actively working to them, you wont work on a yard in Denmark. The trainees are on the lunge for hours and hours (and before anyone accuses us of over lunging, no its not on the same damn horse and no, they arent babies). The dont leave the lunge until their seat is good, established and independent. Theres no fluff over here. If you jab your horse in the mouth while trotting because you lose your balance, you'll be told to get off and you'll be back on the lunge. The respect for horses is much greater than ive seen in the uk!
Im personally offended at the implications in this thread. My horse is kept in a very "continental" way but that does not make it wrong. Perhaps the UK could learn a lot from some of the more horsey countries in Europe rather than assuming all the damn time that everything they do is wrong. Breeding is improving in the UK but its still far from the general standards of Holland, Germany or Denmark imo. There is some fabulous work going into it, but there are still a lot of people breeding absolute rubbish. There still are here too, but its much harder to do and much less frequent.
Airedale its fine that you encourage people to respect British breeding and not ASSUME they need to go abroad to find a horse to do the job but some of what you say is going too far.
Not all the horses in northern Europe are kept in large barns where they never see the light of day. Many of the youngsters are out with the mares 24 hours.
Yes, we keep horses over here differently to in the UK, that does not necessarily mean we're sacrficing the horses well being in doing so. It's DIFFERENT but that does not give the UK some definitive voice on how to keep horses.
Im sure SOME places dont name their foals, slap a number on them and rush them through training. Im sure that occurs in the UK also but in no way is it the norm.
Some of the countries you are making blanket generalisations about are horse countries in every sense of the word with people who have a deep sense of pride about their horse culture (and im in one). The horses are treated as individuals in a sentimental way similar to what you would find in the UK.
In regards to the training - they arent all started at 2 years old for heavens sake. However i do believe that the standard of riding in Holland, Denmark and Germany is generally better which is why the horses often do more at a younger age. That doesnt mean they're doing canter pirouettes as 4 year olds. Ive been on yards in the UK with grand prix dressage riders where young stock from the above mentioned countries are arriving all the time, primarily sourced for clients. None of them have been over produced, they work nicely for their age but arguable (imo) of a better standard than the ones from the UK. No they're not doing canter piros or piaffe and passage. They're able to maintain their outlines, their able to doing some leg yielding and shoulder in but they're very much babies - albeit babies started well.
The people breaking and working the young horses over here have to hold their qualifications. Theres no ifs and buts about it. If you dont hold the bereiter exams or be actively working to them, you wont work on a yard in Denmark. The trainees are on the lunge for hours and hours (and before anyone accuses us of over lunging, no its not on the same damn horse and no, they arent babies). The dont leave the lunge until their seat is good, established and independent. Theres no fluff over here. If you jab your horse in the mouth while trotting because you lose your balance, you'll be told to get off and you'll be back on the lunge. The respect for horses is much greater than ive seen in the uk!
Im personally offended at the implications in this thread. My horse is kept in a very "continental" way but that does not make it wrong. Perhaps the UK could learn a lot from some of the more horsey countries in Europe rather than assuming all the damn time that everything they do is wrong. Breeding is improving in the UK but its still far from the general standards of Holland, Germany or Denmark imo. There is some fabulous work going into it, but there are still a lot of people breeding absolute rubbish. There still are here too, but its much harder to do and much less frequent.
mistered
Well-Known Member
Well Said!
Tierra
Well-Known Member
Well said.
jumpthemoon
Well-Known Member
Well said Tierra!!
AndyPandy
Well-Known Member
Yes. Hear, hear!
magic104
Well-Known Member
At last someone who can put this person straight who is actually seeing these things. Thank you and thanks to AndyPandy, because it is balanced views like yours that are needed. I have sent this thread to a few friends, they can not believe the distorted view being put across. And I am so glad that you are able to refute the fact that 2yr olds are being ridden, especially in sitting trot!!!
Tia
Well-Known Member
With all due respect, breeding horses in Denmark is certainly nowhere near comparable to breeding practices in the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and is most definitely VASTLY different from horses bred in Eastern Europe.
magic104
Well-Known Member
With all due respect they still dont go around housing them in barns with no turn out, or riding them as 2yr olds, any of which is an exception rather then the rule. I have friends who have a real interest in breeding, whether it is the grading side, or both. They spend a fair amount of time travelling to Netherlands, Belgium & Germany & if their reports & photo's are anything to go by, they are not that far removed from Denmark or anywhere else come to that. This thread started because of the comments;
""It's a quick way of establishing a horse's year of birth. Some horses, like this one, are just given a letter relevant to the year of birth as foals are produced in great volume and naming them all may be impractical. " SO WHAT, BEEN COVERED HORSE WONT CARE WHAT IT IS CALLED
HOW DISGUSTING that a horse is not even worthy of a name when foaled. !!!!!!!!
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/1370/121728.htmlWHY IS IT DISGUSTING SO LONG AS THE HORSE IS HAPPY, AGAIN IT REALLY DOES NOT GIVE A MONKEYS WHAT WE CALL HIM/HER
for those of you that have 'attacked' me for my sig - EAT YOUR WORDS
and for those that think buying on the continent is so wonderful - just read that paragraph above about 6 times and think if a BRITISH breeder would be so callous as to not name a foal..................... AGAIN WHY CALLOUS??
and then vote to buy british
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If you don't buy factory farmed chicken then why buy a factory farmed horse from the continent ? WHY STATE THEY ARE FACTORY FARMED WHEN THIS IS FAR FROM TRUE
People should buy BRITISH BRED horses and not imported ones. MATTER OF CHOICE
We then got onto the subject of horses being kept in barns as if that is it for them, rubbish they have turn out, they are housed in barns the same as studs all over europe. It is more practicle for both animal & their managment.
""It's a quick way of establishing a horse's year of birth. Some horses, like this one, are just given a letter relevant to the year of birth as foals are produced in great volume and naming them all may be impractical. " SO WHAT, BEEN COVERED HORSE WONT CARE WHAT IT IS CALLED
HOW DISGUSTING that a horse is not even worthy of a name when foaled. !!!!!!!!
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/1370/121728.htmlWHY IS IT DISGUSTING SO LONG AS THE HORSE IS HAPPY, AGAIN IT REALLY DOES NOT GIVE A MONKEYS WHAT WE CALL HIM/HER
for those of you that have 'attacked' me for my sig - EAT YOUR WORDS
and for those that think buying on the continent is so wonderful - just read that paragraph above about 6 times and think if a BRITISH breeder would be so callous as to not name a foal..................... AGAIN WHY CALLOUS??
and then vote to buy british
--------------------
If you don't buy factory farmed chicken then why buy a factory farmed horse from the continent ? WHY STATE THEY ARE FACTORY FARMED WHEN THIS IS FAR FROM TRUE
People should buy BRITISH BRED horses and not imported ones. MATTER OF CHOICE
We then got onto the subject of horses being kept in barns as if that is it for them, rubbish they have turn out, they are housed in barns the same as studs all over europe. It is more practicle for both animal & their managment.
Tia
Well-Known Member
How do you know what goes on in Denmark? And how can you blithely state all these points as fact and dumb them down as "exceptions" when you have clearly not been to breeding facilities on the Continent?
AndyPandy
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how useful this comment is. Unless you have visited a wide range of studs across Europe, then of course you cannot make useful sweeping comments. I think the important fact here is that continental farming methods, as used by professional studs, are more successful at producing top quality youngstock than the widely accepted British methods are. Additionally, that these professional farms are not cruel to their horses, and in any country in the world you will be able to find examples (cruel farms, good British breeders, poor continental breeders) to try and prove a point with. We're trying to look at the overall picture.