duty of care as a yard manager or interferring??

Where I keep my mare (entirely DIY), there is the option for horses to live out 24/7 and most of them take this. Yesterday I was up to feed mine and turn her out for about 8.45am (would have been earlier if it wasn't for the road conditions - I have a 17 mile drive out there). By the time I left at just before 11am it was still minus 10 and the "out" horses were still waiting for their owners to rock up and break solid ice on the water trough. Not one of them had turned up and apparently several are only coming up a couple of times a week to check on their animals. WTF???? Are they not aware that the snow can ball up in the feet and make it impossible for them to walk? Are they not aware that any horse can slip and injure itself? Are they not aware that if all they have to eat is hay (the small amount of grass is completely covered with snow and rock hard anyway) which, oh yes, is DRY, and if they don't drink adequately, they are risking impaction colic? And as the atmosphere is very dry at the moment, everyone is much thirstier anyway. The owners just can't be bothered to get their backsides into gear, its disgusting. If you don't want the committment, don't have a horse or pay full livery and let someone else do the necessary.
 
I would interfere and charge them for it. If they don't pay they will eventually end up with a debt which I would take them to court for. Idiots.
 
duty of care.....


i felt awful y'day - i went down at 2pm left at 4pm - in that time my horse was ridden/put out in the field for a bit (really snowy and she dosent want to be out)...brushed/rugs changed/scratched etc... and i felt guilty for only being there once a day as i normally go down twice but for once i had things to do in the morning.

many people down my yard dont come down until the afternoon at the weekend but no horse is ever without hay or water!!....

tell them to pay up for YO doing jobs or leave!!
 
I am in the middle of re writiing the livery contract as we speak. One of the liveries mentioned has now gone away for ten days leaving the horse in our care. We mucked him out this morning and the horse was on bare concrete, there is strict instructions to only give the horse one bale of bedding and if we want to give more we must call her for permission!!
 
There is a person on our yard who has a few horses (takes on old or falling apart free to 'good' home horses...:mad:) who are on 24/7 turnout at a the yard. We've had snow like we've never seen before (I live near the coast so it's rare for us to have 8 inches of snow as we've had!). A few of the liveries, myself included on friday, struggled to get to the yard so between us and the YO we've managed to keep the horses in food and water and mucked out those that need it. We've all been in phone contact and doing what we can to help each other, those really stuck have been phoning the YO twice a day to check everything is okay and the horses are being cared for.

The silly bint with the horses in the field hasn't ONCE phoned, she certainly hasn't got off her bum to come check, she hasn't contacted anyone to see if the horses are even alive let alone got food and water. Of course all of us other liveries have ensured haylage has been going into the field, I've even used 3 of my own hay bales so they've got something to munch on.

She's a disgusting excuse for a human being and I've already had to tell her to worm her horses (and she's had a visit from the RSPCA regarding another animal in her so called 'care'), so believe me when she finally decides to show her ugly little face she will be told.
 
I have one livery, and to be fair she is a lazy cow, but she pays on time, after a getting to know you period, I laid down some ground rules as to what I expect re: standards of care. She doesn't muck out as well as I would like but as long as her horse gets done and has fresh bedding it's not really my problem, I feed in the morning and give a small amount of haylage.
What I would say is that communication is the key, now if she is going to be much later than 10.30am, I need to know before I do morning stables, otherwise her horse won't have enough haylage and I won't have checked the water.
I did actually read the riot act and tell her that what she was doing was tantamount to neglect. Since then the situation has improved.
 
I have two liveries, one has been with me five years and daily we do between us our twenty. These are three stabled ponies and the rest are out 24/7 in two fields of 25 acres each. One has a natural running water supply which we check to make sure they are getting water at (clever little natives break the ice daily) and the other has to have water ferried to it. It takes us until 12 noon to do our first round then we start again at three. We have to break water on all buckets and water containers defrost the tap to be able to fill the containers and at ten at night I go out to the stable to ensure the three stabled ones have water they can drink and hay they can eat.
My other livery has changed her mind more often than her socks. A month ago it was to be in with daily turnout. She starts work at 7 30 am thirty miles away so she had to be here at six to feed it and turn it out. That lasted three weeks. She then turfed it out along side my field ponies where it caused a daily stramash over the haylage that was put out. My ponies are civil animals who quietly get on with eating their own. I told her it had to be separated as it was causing chaos and I brought it in to the stable. She complained that she had a back problem that stopped her from mucking out and turned it back out with my field ponies forgetting I had told her I had erected the electric fence to keep it seperated from mine. Yes in the dark it went out and straight through the fence at which time I lost the plot !! B****y idiot!! It had taken me four hours to erect the fence and her hoss demolished it to 4 seconds. It was then turfed out in my paddock and to my good nature I gave it a pony for company.
Saturday she phoned me at 12 noon complaining of the squits. Sorry your hoss has been fed and watered already, I cant leave mine to starve because you are feeling sorry for yourself! You will be charged.
Yesterday a pathetic voice tells me its not well and I lose the plot. Either get up and see to your hoss or get your husband to do it!!!
I have twenty you have one!! When she eventually turns up at four I ask her seriously if her health is so bad should she really have responsibility for it? Send it back to the charity that gave you it ten years ago (rehomed racehourse charities contact me for details!!) She has been ill or had something wrong with her every day she has been here. It is my choice to have twenty and I will look after them in an appropriate manner that meets their needs.
She cant do one!
 
joeanne said:
Well if they have an anti social job, or other things to do, then perhaps its time they accepted the fact that they dont have time for a horse.
YO does have a duty of care to whatever is on said yard, and besides all else, its hardly a good advertisement for potential new liveries coming to view is it?
Would you honestly stable your horse somewhere you could blatently see neglect? I know I wouldnt!
YO needs to inform (in writing if necessary) what is acceptable, and what is not....a horse standing in a filthy wet bed is NOT acceptable! Perhaps inform said liveries that if horse is not attended to by say 11, then YO will see to horse and charge for the time.
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Totally agree- I work very unpredictable hours so only bought my horse when I knew I could afford to keep her on part livery (ie everything done except exercising/grooming) and I also have a sharer who rides ehr twice a week. She gets stressed out if her routine changes in the slightest so I hate to think what she would be like if I went DIY!
 
Every yard I've been a livery at has had someone of these examples of irresponsibility. One I did call the RSPCA on. Big tip, do it from a witheld number & be anonimous. No matter what they say about confidentiality, I heard YO reading the paperwork to see who had complained. Old horse terrible state, on fed what she stole from our bins, left out 24/7, no hay, thin rug, checked once a week, bag of bones. They came, with vet, met her & decided poor boy was fine to go through another winter. 5 days later he lay near-dead in the field having been struggling for hours. I rang her, she said he would be fine & wouldn't come down. I said he was dying & to get down now. Vet (we called) arrived before her, to say he needed to be pts asap, we don't have authority. She comes wandering over hill with headcollar, bursts into tears when vet says he needs pts. Left her with her crocodile tears. According to vet & RSPCA though she was a reasonable owner & he was fine!

To cap it all they had a younger gelding daughter used to ride when she could nick someone elses saddle & be bothered to come down (about 14 years old). This horrible thing was only gelding on yard, & only bay (mares were roan, grey, black & liver chestnut). Daughter came one day & actually had to ask which horse was hers, as if the little s**t could be mistaken for anyone elses. Tells you everything about what type of people they were. Only sad thing was mother was as neglectfull towards daughter as horse. She was always turning up on a saturday or sunday in the previous nights party clothes, kid being left at home on her own. Once left kid aged about 13 alone at home for 2 weeks whilst she went on holiday with latest bloke to s***w her.
 
intouch said:
DIY, assisted livery and our own horses all get a slice of hay and a feed ar 8am, more hay at 12, hay and a feed at 4 and a haynet at 8. We have drinkers so water isn't an issue. The hay/feeds are left outside the doors, the DIYs muck out/turn out/groom/exercise when it suits them, but I can't imagine the chaos if they were all getting fed at different times. I don't charge any extra for putting in feeds, but if a livery can't make it to the yard I charge a daily rate for full livery. I couldn't stand by and watch a horse being neglected.
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Sorry can I just ask do your drinker (automatic watering system I assume?) not freeze?
 
Flicker said:
With regard to exercise, it is a tricky one. The horse next door to mine hasn't been out of the box for over a week and I do feel really sorry for him. I also feel sorry for the next person to sit on him (who I doubt will be the owner)! This is something you can't really do yourself as a YO / YM, but certainly something I would be having a chat with the owner about.

Poor horses. Honestly, I can't understand why some people have horses!
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By saying exercise it does not mean someone has to ride the horse:) It can be just turned out so it can exercise itself by walking about etc.:D
 
Naturally said:
As someone else said, the very fact that the liveries are being aggressive and rude when things are done for the horses are signs that they know fine well that what they do is insufficient and are reacting defensively - I have been on the receiving end of this myself and its not on. :mad:

As for what I'd recommend YO to do;

Put a notice up for all to see, listing specific standards that ALL liveries are expected to adhere to. be specific: Horses to be turned out for at least X hours per day, weather permitting, and must be left with sufficient (e.g. minimum 1 slicer per hour) forage and access to fresh water at all times when in. Horses must be given sufficient clean bedding and mucked out daily. If you want to, give reasons, like in order to meet the 5 freedoms and for the horse's health and mental wellbeing. You may also like to state that this has become an issue as the yard is public and DIY liveries' standards need to be at least as high as those demonstrated by staff. Give a month's notice for this to be put into place, and list penalties (3 strike warning, or charges for staff doing it and the assumption that staff will do it if owner not in contact or been down by X o'clock).

Anybody who doesn't like it can discuss with YO or find somewhere else to go.

Good luck.

PS in the eyes of the law the YO is as responsible for the welfare of their liveries' horses as the horse owners themselves.
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Totally agree with all this^^^^^^:D;)
 
cobgirlie said:
T

The silly bint with the horses in the field hasn't ONCE phoned, she certainly hasn't got off her bum to come check, she hasn't contacted anyone to see if the horses are even alive let alone got food and water. Of course all of us other liveries have ensured haylage has been going into the field, I've even used 3 of my own hay bales so they've got something to munch on.
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Just playing devil's advocate here but I have had a mouthful off fellow liveries for not visiting my horse (in the past). I actually had, but just not when they were about... I used to go to the yard at 5:30am and about 10:30pm - so of course noone ever saw me and assumed my horses were being neglected. Incidentally they also fed hard feed to my horse twice per day without my knowledge or permission resulting in laminitis :( The horse had been getting 4 feeds a day!!
 
charlie76 said:
it fell over three times in its box due to lack of bedding and a puddle of wee, the yard staff mucked the horse out and gave the horse more bed, hay and water- again, owner has gone bonkers.
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GONE BONKERS?????!!! Cheeky *******. Huh, owner would get short shrift from me. I'd say, "Don't like us doing it? Well then, do it yourself. Oh, and by the way next time we have to hay/water/muckout either of your horses we'll be charging you £x amount per horse, per time."

Goes bonkers indeed! Jeeze, who do these people think they are? Makes my blood boil. :mad:
 
This thread treads dangerous ground!

I don't turn up until gone 10ish three days a week. And I'm rarely there before 6pm in the evening, even though the others are up at 3pm.

But I'm damned if anyone accuses me of ignoring her, because I'm up at 6am on the other four days a week, feeding everyone's horses.

I give mine enough forage that she has leftovers in the morning and I change her rugs. She is then bought in at 3pm, when she finishes her leftovers and waits for me to feed in the evening.

The other liveries often leave her light on for me, and by turning it out at night I'm confirming I've been down.

There's no question my horse is checked twice a day, but I often only see the other liveries three times a week!!!!

Oh, and Dorey lies, she insists I starve her to anyone who stands still long enough. So do look out for horses who are acting starved.

At least my YO has a sense of humour. I often get filled in about "Dorey's complaints to the establishment about shoddy treatment". It occasionally earns her a slice of hay to keep her quiet until I get down but she generally just gets cuddles as compo for her suffering...
 
devilwoman said:
They sound like wonderful owners compared to the other livery on my yard, theres only 2 of us and it kills me to watch her horses, they sometimes don't get done every day, if they do its not until at least 1 p.m. - they havent' been outside their stables for four weeks now and very rarely have hay, never get mucked out, always standing knee deep in *****, if they have water its usually like ditch water or nothing at all, she has a little Section A who seems to have given up and just stands there depressed and a Welsh D gelding who creates/kicks the walls/crib bites/bucks/squeels etc, sometimes he is that thirsty he neighs to /me and kics the door when i'm doing my girls water, I always give him water but dont have access to her hay so can't give him that otherwise I would !! i have had an argument with her in the past over their care and told her they are little more than RSPCA cases but she is feral herself so wasn't interested just swore and threatend me, i've spoken to YO but she is not interested and just says I should keep myself to myself which is fine when she is over the other side of the farm, it's me that is in the block of 4 stables with her and has to see the neglect every day.
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Please report her to the horse welfare or RSPCA. You are the only hope for these poor horses.
 
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