Eating straw and colic?

Spring Feather said:
I haven't read all the responses but have you said which type of straw you are feeding? We made some rather lovely oat straw (heads left on) and alfalfa hay mix last year. 100 large round bales of it and my horses all loved it. I fed it at the beginning of the winter and saved the top quality hay for later. I have around 50 horses living on my farm and none had any problems with the mix, all looked fabulous going into winter; nice shiny coats etc. but as I say it's oat straw as that's the only straw I will use with horses.
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I said I wasn't sure, potentially wheat but I'll get my mum to look tonight! But thanks for your reply!
 
We all lose weight if we go onto starvation rations but horses digestive system is different to ours and starving for long periods in 24hrs potentially causes lots of problems.
I don't envy you having to fight about basic care! x
 
amandap said:
We all lose weight if we go onto starvation rations but horses digestive system is different to ours and starving for long periods in 24hrs potentially causes lots of problems.
I don't envy you having to fight about basic care! x
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I know, I'm terrified of ulcers because I know someone with an obese pony who basically starved it and now the poor thing has ulcers! It's the first time I've been at a yard with a knowledgeable YO (as opposed to non-horsey farmer) and whilst it is often very useful, it's bl**** annoying being told how to look after my horse! x
 
Get a lightweight summer sheet. It will make little difference to his warmth but will stop all the OMG that clipped horse is naked! :eek3: Maybe also take your other rugs home.
 
My Draft horse easily gets colic if she eats long straw and has to have a shavings/megazorb bed but the other 3 all nibble at their beds, with no issue. That is why I give the Draft horse the Honeychop chaff.
 
I feed all ours half haylage/half barley or oat straw in double nets, and have done for years, they also have wheat straw beds but don't seem to eat these as they are not in nets and are therefore not food!?
In terms of nutrition -oat straw can be as calorific as hay, barley is about 1/2 the calories of hay and wheat less than that but wheat is the least pallatable to horses. Of course all straws vary though!
 
Well mine are on straw, did try shavings and found it more trouble than it was worth. Just give him two larger haynets with straw and hay mixed but with nets with the smaller holes, you do get through them faster than normal as they eat through the netting, plenty of water and yes mine too eat their bedding only if they feel peckish during the night. :)
 
New Zealand horses eat Oat Chaff by the bucket full and don't come to any harm. The first place I worked at actually grew oats for the purpose, they were allowed to ripen, go brown, were cut stooked and a week later cut into chaff and bagged. Then sold all around NZ.

Oaten chaff, contains the whole plant, oats and all. Oat chaff on the other hand contains only the dead stem of the plant.

Leaving a horse hungry is the quickest way for them to develop ulcers and bad habits such as eating their own dung.
 
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As long as there other fibre e.g. Haylage, hay which will assist the straw passing through the system and fresh water, your horse has no more chance of getting colic than another one who doesnt eat straw, its called luck of the draw. In other countries horses are only fed straw as hay and haylage is non existent.

A friend of mine bangs on about only bedding horses down on oat straw, because hers are, until i pointed out to her how many racehorses are bedded down on barley straw, she shut up then.
 
Thanks, yeah it's mixed with hay and he has a small amount of grass for a few hours a day. He's still alive anyway and *dare I say it* a bit slimmer (but I'm most likely just imagining things).
 
putasocinit said:
As long as there other fibre e.g. Haylage, hay which will assist the straw passing through the system and fresh water, your horse has no more chance of getting colic than another one who doesnt eat straw, its called luck of the draw. In other countries horses are only fed straw as hay and haylage is non existent.

A friend of mine bangs on about only bedding horses down on oat straw, because hers are, until i pointed out to her how many racehorses are bedded down on barley straw, she shut up then.
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Your first statement unfortunately isn't correct. I've known a few bedeaters over the years who despite being given good quality, high fibre diets and adlib hay have eaten their beds. One died as a result of impaction colic.

It is always a risk for any horse thar chooses to eat Wheat or Barley straw in its long form -bedding - that they will get colic.

Tell your friend that no one beds on oat straw by choice - it's a food straw, usually chopped up as chaff.
 
So how much straw is too much straw to feed? Rose has a medium tub trug and a small haynet should i cut one out? Its barley straw.
 
Rosie'smum said:
So how much straw is too much straw to feed? Rose has a medium tub trug and a small haynet should i cut one out? Its barley straw.
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lt depends on the horse - if they are hungry they will wolf it and may get impaction colic. My fattie was fed on only oat straw for 3 summers to keep the weight off and suffered no ill effects
 
Fides said:
lt depends on the horse - if they are hungry they will wolf it and may get impaction colic. My fattie was fed on only oat straw for 3 summers to keep the weight off and suffered no ill effects
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Oat straw is fine, it is softer and less fibrous which is why it is fed instead of wheat and barley straw.

Rosie'smum if you can mix it well with some hay yours should be fine. The Barley straw is higher in lignin so is harder for the horses digestion.

You would be better to top up the diet with oat straw if it is available.

If you get a chance, try to compare the different types of straws, see the difference in colour and texture.
 
I did try mixing it in once but she just leaves it where she will eat it all if its in a bucket. Ill see what the straw is at the yard.
 
Tnavas, everytime i make a post on this forum someone gets a hair up their ass and has to argue my post, so bring the facts, how many horses die of colic or get colic without even seeing a blade a straw, no one is putting a gun to anyones head and telling them they must do this and they must do that, but the facts do state that if fed straw with another form of fibre the risks of impaction colic are reduced.
 
putasocinit said:
Tnavas, everytime i make a post on this forum someone gets a hair up their ass and has to argue my post, so bring the facts, how many horses die of colic or get colic without even seeing a blade a straw, no one is putting a gun to anyones head and telling them they must do this and they must do that, but the facts do state that if fed straw with another form of fibre the risks of impaction colic are reduced.
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^l'm one who agrees with you.

lMO a lot of cases of colic are caused by a poor feeding regime - chuck a net in at 7pm and leave for the night expecting it to last 12 hours... Horse is famished, has been stood around for hours with an empty belly and thus gorges breakfast net resulting in impaction colic. Or they finish their net and move on to their bed eating just straw, not mixed. l was horrified to discover that my horses will finish a net by around 11pm if a net is put in at about 7pm - the joys of having them at home means l can do bedtime nets too...
 
Thanks fides.

And hence the reason why the mollichaffs and any other chaff is straw mixed with another form of fibre, except honeychop, but hey ho, its straw
 
Everything is a balance of risk, especially with horses,
1) leave them with nothing - v bad, ulcers and gorging next feed, stress and other issues
2) ad lib hay - they get fat, all sorts of impacts inc lami - all v bad
3) feed straw - argued risk of colic although personally not seen evidance of this (the odd horse that scoffed a whole bed maybe) lots of horses overseas only eat straw - so this is the risk I take for mine.
 
Tnavas said:
Your first statement unfortunately isn't correct. I've known a few bedeaters over the years who despite being given good quality, high fibre diets and adlib hay have eaten their beds. One died as a result of impaction colic.

It is always a risk for any horse thar chooses to eat Wheat or Barley straw in its long form -bedding - that they will get colic.

Tell your friend that no one beds on oat straw by choice - it's a food straw, usually chopped up as chaff.
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Erm how ridiculous. Some people in the world give straw as forage. Colic can be due it a number of things and the gut could get impacted at anytime and with any dry matter.

I fed barley straw thank you very much.

Nowt wrong with eating straw as long is its a gradual transition AS WITH ANYTHING.

Think about it and be responsible. Hay, straw are all species of grass but with straw having a higher fibre content but actually sometimes containing even more sugar!

Not always the best but different areas of the world produce different grades of the same stuff.

Just get on with some local research.
 
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And i bet my bottom dollar those horses that ate their bed straw were not given enough other type of forage in the first place and were hungry, yes it was no doubt a way to try and reduce weight on the horse, but this is wrong to expect an animal that should travel up to 20miles a day on arable land, eat 16 hrs a day, and then we confine it to a box with little feed, so it goes back to the same as humans, feed little and often, make sure the supps and vits are there and then there wont be a need to pig out on what is available. I do love chocolate......
 
I have seen and nursed quite a few very serious impaction colics in horses, mostly (but not all) heavies such as shires and punches, caused by mostly/only feeding them straw to keep costs down. Mostly happened during the winter-in a cold snap where the horses maybe stopped drinking as much. Mostly they recovered after several days of oil and salts which is just as well, heavy horses and anaesthesia is tricky. I don't know what sort of straw they were fed.

Oat straw is more expensive around here than the lovely hay I can get and is harder to find the further north you go. I do feed small amounts of barley straw,mixed in along with soaked hay for my fat Exmoor. When we have an extended period of bad weather where he might not be moving about as much, I leave the straw out or cut it right back. Of course, they can get colic for any number of reasons but personally I do regard the feeding of straw as a risk factor. No reason to not do it but to say it definitely won't cause colic is inaccurate.
 
Dont think anyone has said it wont cause colic, what does cause colic is lack of movement, not drinking enough, worms and gorging due to lack of feed, so eating fence posts, straw, wooden doors. If salts vits mins water intake worming exercise/movement and fibre are in correct quantities incl a mix of straw to slow down eating hopefully fingers crossed all should be good, but a horses digestive system is such that anything can cause colic
 
putasocinit said:
Dont think anyone has said it wont cause colic, what does cause colic is lack of movement, not drinking enough, worms and gorging due to lack of feed, so eating fence posts, straw, wooden doors. If salts vits mins water intake worming exercise/movement and fibre are in correct quantities incl a mix of straw to slow down eating hopefully fingers crossed all should be good, but a horses digestive system is such that anything can cause colic
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^ We do seem to be agreeing quite a lot...lol
 
tallyho! said:
Erm how ridiculous. Some people in the world give straw as forage. Colic can be due it a number of things and the gut could get impacted at anytime and with any dry matter.

I fed barley straw thank you very much.

Nowt wrong with eating straw as long is its a gradual transition AS WITH ANYTHING.

Think about it and be responsible. Hay, straw are all species of grass but with straw having a higher fibre content but actually sometimes containing even more sugar!

Not always the best but different areas of the world produce different grades of the same stuff.

Just get on with some local research.
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While they are all various species of grasses they are harvested at different times. Grass is harvested when the seed head has just set, straws on the other hand are harvested when the seed head has fully developed and dried, the rest of the plant now totally dried out with minimal nutrients left in it.

Straws from the heavier cereal grains has a very high Lignin content, this the indigestible fibre which is the culprit causing impaction comics.

Some of the chaff mixes you get in UK do contain a mix of stew and hay, that's fine, you can mix it with a feed, increase bulk, slow digestion down and have a healthy horse.

I agree with you that some horses will eat their beds because they run out of hay in the night. Ideally these horses should be bedded on an in edible bedding such as shavings. This is not always possible, either because disposal of shavings can be difficult or owner doesn't want horse on shavings, despite being advised that her horse would get colic again this was the case with the horse that died, owner didn't want her horse on shavings as they get dusty, his appearance meant more to her than his health! We refused to allow her horse to be on straw, she moved him to a yard where YO was intimidated by her liveries, horse went on straw and a few months later died of a straw impaction.

When feeding straw you have to take into account the lignin levels, unfortunately you can't visibly see these. Therefore feeding straw is something that has to be considered carefully. The type of straw should also be taken into account, Oat straw is best, then wheat, then barley. Oat having the least lignin.
 
putasocinit said:
Dont think anyone has said it wont cause colic, what does cause colic is lack of movement, not drinking enough, worms and gorging due to lack of feed, so eating fence posts, straw, wooden doors. If salts vits mins water intake worming exercise/movement and fibre are in correct quantities incl a mix of straw to slow down eating hopefully fingers crossed all should be good, but a horses digestive system is such that anything can cause colic
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As MotherOfChickens pointed out the incidence of colic increases during cold weather when horses drink less, I had a school horse that every winter during a cold snap he'd get impacted, he was out, fed on good quality meadow and lucerne hay. The vet showed me how to insert mineral oil up his butt to help mov the impacted food. Eventually a couple of years after I left the school he died from impacted colic.

Some horses develop bad habits regardless of how much they are fed, exercised, turned out etc and bed eating is one of those. I've cared for many that have had to have their beds sprayed with disinfectant to stop them eating it and I can assure you they all had plenty to it, with last feed and hay given at 10pm - I learnt my horse care in the good old days!
 
Fides lol. Thank you tnavas, i agree about the lignin, hence my reason for mixing with hay/haylage, sadly farmers, forage suppliers and us the horse owners do not have the time or knowledge to stand there and analyse when the straw was cut etc etc, i still go back to my last post that the horse that you speak of that died of colic from straw impaction was due to hunger. How many horses in summer, stand in barren fields, then maybe get brought in to a stable at night with a pony sized haynet to last them but bedded down on straw with the intention of making it lose weight, when that pony could probably have done with just a 60min hack, brisk walk in the school, 30min lunge walk and trot and this would have aided the weight loss instead of reducing its fibre intake. It is supposed to eat for 16hrs a day.

Saying that the shires motherofchickens speaks of, she refers to winter, lack of turnout, not enough forage so they ate the straw, yes agreed straw because of the lignin takes longer to digest, but in moderation it is edible with no problems. You need a happy balance. Like wine and cheese lol

Tnavas, yes some horses, i have 3 good doers on straw with a heston bale of straw in the barn waiting to be used, they have 4 big shire haynets to last them 19 hrs, and they dont touch the straw, i bring them in to the barn because of the sugars in the grass so they a only out from 6am until 11am. But the cob is worked, the shettie is led out in hand and the other welshie is played about with cos he needs a bit of tlc from being rescued, but if either of them got colic, fingers crossed, i would not blame the straw, i would blame the bad luck that comes with owning horses.

I am 50 yrs old, been with horse owning parents since day 1, brought up in Africa where droughts determine if there is a crop that year, cereals grown are exported for foreign currency or fed to the nation, livestock are last on the list, grooms went out with sickles and cut down long elephant grass which was fed to the horses in the boxes, paddocks were dry and barren, straw which was the residue of grown crops was cheap and therefore fed to livestock horses and all. Been there seen it done it.

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Tnavas - what would you do with a fatty then? genuinely interested if you don;t feed straw would you rather leave them without any forage? (assuming they are still weight gaining on old soaked hay)
 
putasocinit said:
Fides lol. Thank you tnavas, i agree about the lignin, hence my reason for mixing with hay/haylage, sadly farmers, forage suppliers and us the horse owners do not have the time or knowledge to stand there and analyse when the straw was cut etc etc, i still go back to my last post that the horse that you speak of that died of colic from straw impaction was due to hunger. How many horses in summer, stand in barren fields, then maybe get brought in to a stable at night with a pony sized haynet to last them but bedded down on straw with the intention of making it lose weight, when that pony could probably have done with just a 60min hack, brisk walk in the school, 30min lunge walk and trot and this would have aided the weight loss instead of reducing its fibre intake. It is supposed to eat for 16hrs a day.

Saying that the shires motherofchickens speaks of, she refers to winter, lack of turnout, not enough forage so they ate the straw, yes agreed straw because of the lignin takes longer to digest, but in moderation it is edible with no problems. You need a happy balance. Like wine and cheese lol
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I can assure you the horse that died was never allowed to be hungry. I nursed him through several impaction colics as he was one of my charges and as I also said the horses were fed at 10pm, being given their last feed and another hay net. He always had some hay left in the morning.

Bed eating can be a learned habit just as cribbing and weaving can be learned. I've had them eating their own droppings which is a very sure sign they've not had enough fibre to eat, yet despite being given adlib hay they still eat their droppings. Habits are hard to drop as we all know, smokers and chocolate eaters can vouch for that.

Sadly the modern trend for feeding highly processed feeds has not helped with people hard feeding their horses who really don't need it. In the past these would have been fed hay only or nothing extra just grass.

We certainly didn't have the problems we have now.
 
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