Ebay - Buyer claiming broken tree - advice please

Wagtail

Wagtail

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I gave free postage on this saddle even though it cost me over £25 to send it by Parcelforce. Buyer says she thinks tree is broken. I know 100% it isn't as I have had it from new and it has been used fewer than 20 times and never been dropped or banged. This therefore leaves either damage in transit or buyer being fraudulent. Can anyone advise me what to do? I have requested photographs of the packaging. She says she has a saddler coming on Thursday but she is claiming a full refund whatever saddler says. I know eBay will side with the buyer as they always do. Any advice? I have 100% feedback and over 2000 ebay points (mostly as a buyer but quite a few expensive items sold too).
 
Wagtail said:
I gave free postage on this saddle even though it cost me over £25 to send it by Parcelforce. Buyer says she thinks tree is broken. I know 100% it isn't as I have had it from new and it has been used fewer than 20 times and never been dropped or banged. This therefore leaves either damage in transit or buyer being fraudulent. Can anyone advise me what to do? I have requested photographs of the packaging. She says she has a saddler coming on Thursday but she is claiming a full refund whatever saddler says. I know eBay will side with the buyer as they always do. Any advice? I have 100% feedback and over 2000 ebay points (mostly as a buyer but quite a few expensive items sold too).
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Did you take pictures of the saddle before you boxed it, and once boxed to show how the condition was when with you??? I did this to mine as it was going to London first and then off to China of all places.

I would ask her to send photos of the saddle now and box (I see you have done it)
Also an independant saddler to coment on it


Contact Ebay now so they are heads up and can give advise. I would not give a refund if she says what ever the saddler says

what has happend I bet is she tried it and doesn't fit



I would also ask you if she was offered insurance or paid insurance.

I always stay insrance is advisable in the auction or when it comes to paying online my hermes or Parceforce and ask buyer if they are willing.

Waggie Contact Ebay asap tell them everything so the buyer cannot twist things round in their favour
 
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Is it one of the adjustable gullets because my friend had one? She had no idea the tree on it was broken until a saddler spotted it.
 
Fragglerock said:
Is it one of the adjustable gullets because my friend had one? She had no idea the tree on it was broken until a saddler spotted it.
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Yes, it is an adjustable saddle. Immaculate condition. I have paid for extra liability compensation so if it was done in transit, I will claim, but they would need evidence. Parcel was a day late too. Packaged in a good box. It would have had to show significant box damage to have broken a saddle tree.
 
Tyssandi said:
Did you take pictures of the saddle before you boxed it, and once boxed to show how the condition was when with you??? I did this to mine as it was going to London first and then off to China of all places.

I would ask her to send photos of the saddle now and box (I see you have done it)
Also an independant saddler to coment on it


Contact Ebay now so they are heads up and can give advise. I would not give a refund if she says what ever the saddler says

what has happend I bet is she tried it and doesn't fit



I would also ask you if she was offered insurance or paid insurance.

I always stay insrance is advisable in the auction or when it comes to paying online my hermes or Parceforce and ask buyer if they are willing.

Waggie Contact Ebay asap tell them everything so the buyer cannot twist things round in their favour
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I paid over £25 to send the parcel and paid insurance, but wonder what evidence they would need. I have photographs, as selling on ebay. Buyer said she didn't sign for it but courier has a name of someone signing (not same name as buyer though).
 
Wagtail said:
Yes, it is an adjustable saddle. Immaculate condition. I have paid for extra liability compensation so if it was done in transit, I will claim, but they would need evidence. Parcel was a day late too. Packaged in a good box. It would have had to show significant box damage to have broken a saddle tree.
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She hadn't send it anywhere, she had been riding her horse in it but had no idea how it happened.

I'm not saying she isn't trying to have you on but my friend was so upset she had been riding with a problem with no idea of how long it had been like it.
 
My saddler looked at the saddle last October when I was trying it on my youngster for fit, and it hasn't been touched since then. The tree was not broken. It has been on a saddle rack with a saddle cover since it was checked. My buyer first of all said saddle didn't arrive by Saturday (estimated delivery date). It should have been as courier picked it up on Thursday to be delivered by Saturday. Then buyer said she didn't want it as had bought replacement. Then she said she thinks tree is broken as both shoulders of saddle move??? Anyway, either it has been crunched by something very heavy in transit, or she is trying it on. Have asked for photographs and details of her saddler to confirm broken tree.
 
Wagtail - these seems to be a common issue with ebay. I would jump in quickly and get your saddle back immediately. There have been innumerable stories on here whereby buyers claim a broken tree, raise a claim with ebay/paypal and le voila, money returned AND saddle kept.

Does anyone on here with good ebay experience knows what would happen if Wagtail raised a query first?
 
Ebay will side with her. You will have to refund and pay return postage. Its probably not fair, but its whats going to happen so make the best of it and see if you can get her to send it back, therefore saving yourself the return postage.

Did you make a note of the serial number in case shes pulling a fast one and has an already broken saddle that she tries to send you, whilst keeping yours?
 
Warning OP, people do this and send back another (cheap or worthless) saddle, keeping the original ,well known ebay scam and it's not called scambay for nought.
It's not hard to see if the saddle tree is broken there are quite a few tell tale signs .IF it was damaged in transit it might have sustained damage to the seat and skirts which may or may not be visible.
Because of the chancers on scambay I don't sell any saddlery on there these days.
Where abouts in the UK did you have to send it, if it's near me I am more than happy to have a look at it as an independent saddler free of charge and give you a full written report which WILL stand as evidence in court if needs be. I used to have to deal with damage to saddles for insurance claims.
I am in West Wales, if it was near me at all I'm more than willing to help you, Oz (Saddler since 1988)
 
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:( :( :( it does sound like it either doesnt fit and shes trying any excuse to return it to you or shes found something else! It is so annoying. I have been mostly lucky buying off Ebay but have bought loads over the years in my bid to find something suitable after the saddler couldnt. Ive lost money and very rarely gained but people should realise that this is the gamble you take.

I did have one person buy a saddle off an add on FB a few years ago. I said she could have a week to see if it fit and I would refund. She contacted me about 3 weeks later, saying she couldnt get the saddler out and that it didnt fit. When I said we agreed on a week, she then started saying other things about the saddle. I felt awful but stood my ground as I think I was fair to give her the trial and heard nothing more of her. My saddler had seen the saddle and said it was totally sound before I sold it.

I really hope you can get this sorted and not lose out, its so unfair
 
cremedemonthe said:
Warning OP, people do this and send back another (cheap or worthless) saddle, keeping the original ,well known ebay scam and it's not called scambay for nought.
It's not hard to see if the saddle tree is broken there are quite a few tell tale signs .IF it was damaged in transit it might have sustained damage to the seat and skirts which may or may not be visible.
Because of the chancers on scambay I don't sell any saddlery on there these days.
Where abouts in the UK did you have to send it, if it's near me I am more than happy to have a look at it as an independent saddler free of charge and give you a full written report which WILL stand as evidence in court if needs be. I used to have to deal with damage to saddles for insurance claims.
I am in West Wales, if it was near me at all I'm more than willing to help you, Oz (Saddler since 1988)
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I wish there was a like button. So nice of you Cremedemonthe!
 
Depending on what make of saddle it is it may be that the buyer has tried to change the gullet and not done it correctly. Although some are marketed as 'Easy change' while they are technically easy they are damn fiddly and often make you want to drop kick the bloody thing round the tack room. Common problems are mixing up the screws for securing the gullet with the ones for screwing the saddle back together again (which makes them come loose), not tucking the points into the point pockets and the staples that secure the screw in gullet threads to the points to the tree coming away. Any of these problems cause the whole saddle to become unstable and feel 'swampy' and can seem like a broken tree. The only genuine broken trees I have seen in these saddles is when a horse vigorously rolled in one and when someone backed over one in their twin cab pick up - they're pretty robust! Also although the different manufactures make very similar looking replacement gullets they generally only fit the saddles they are made for and are not necessarily interchangeable. I hope you manage to either get your saddle back undamaged or 'persuade' the buyer to keep it and you get to retain your money. Good luck!
 
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Meredith said:
Whatever eBay tell you do NOT pay a refund until the correct saddle is returned to you.
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open the box and check it before you sign for it, just in case you find you have a box of bricks or something instead.

ETA: do all your communications with the buyer through ebay messages in the dispute process, not by email, phone or text. Ebay can use those messages as evidence.
 
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This happened to a friend of mine a couple of months ago. It was a buyer who didn't want to re-sell the saddle which didn't fit her horse as is the customary thing to do. My friend told her to have it assessed by an independant saddler and if it was found to be defective she would refund the cost of the saddle and the saddler's report but if it wasn't, there was to be no refund. The buyer refused and escalated the case to a claim. Ebay found in my friend's favour and she didn't have to refund.
 
cremedemonthe said:
Warning OP, people do this and send back another (cheap or worthless) saddle, keeping the original ,well known ebay scam and it's not called scambay for nought.
It's not hard to see if the saddle tree is broken there are quite a few tell tale signs .IF it was damaged in transit it might have sustained damage to the seat and skirts which may or may not be visible.
Because of the chancers on scambay I don't sell any saddlery on there these days.
Where abouts in the UK did you have to send it, if it's near me I am more than happy to have a look at it as an independent saddler free of charge and give you a full written report which WILL stand as evidence in court if needs be. I used to have to deal with damage to saddles for insurance claims.
I am in West Wales, if it was near me at all I'm more than willing to help you, Oz (Saddler since 1988)
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That is very kind of you, thank you. However, I am in Lincs so too faw away. I do have my own saddler here on Friday but doubt I will get it back by then. However the claim the buyer has raised is that item has not arrived. I have tracking saying delivered so she can't get money back that way. She is deanding refund due to it being broken now but claim says not arrived and that I am protected if tracking says delivered. I wonder if she has to close the case and reopen a damage case or whether she can't do that? I will ask her to send it back.
 
Hepsibah said:
This happened to a friend of mine a couple of months ago. It was a buyer who didn't want to re-sell the saddle which didn't fit her horse as is the customary thing to do. My friend told her to have it assessed by an independant saddler and if it was found to be defective she would refund the cost of the saddle and the saddler's report but if it wasn't, there was to be no refund. The buyer refused and escalated the case to a claim. Ebay found in my friend's favour and she didn't have to refund.
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That's reassuring. Thank you.
 
Alwaysmoretoknow said:
Depending on what make of saddle it is it may be that the buyer has tried to change the gullet and not done it correctly. Although some are marketed as 'Easy change' while they are technically easy they are damn fiddly and often make you want to drop kick the bloody thing round the tack room. Common problems are mixing up the screws for securing the gullet with the ones for screwing the saddle back together again (which makes them come loose), not tucking the points into the point pockets and the staples that secure the screw in gullet threads to the points to the tree coming away. Any of these problems cause the whole saddle to become unstable and feel 'swampy' and can seem like a broken tree. The only genuine broken trees I have seen in these saddles is when a horse vigorously rolled in one and when someone backed over one in their twin cab pick up - they're pretty robust! Also although the different manufactures make very similar looking replacement gullets they generally only fit the saddles they are made for and are not necessarily interchangeable. I hope you manage to either get your saddle back undamaged or 'persuade' the buyer to keep it and you get to retain your money. Good luck!
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Thank you. I can't see how it could have happened either.
 
Wagtail said:
That is very kind of you, thank you. However, I am in Lincs so too faw away. I do have my own saddler here on Friday but doubt I will get it back by then. However the claim the buyer has raised is that item has not arrived. I have tracking saying delivered so she can't get money back that way. She is deanding refund due to it being broken now but claim says not arrived and that I am protected if tracking says delivered. I wonder if she has to close the case and reopen a damage case or whether she can't do that? I will ask her to send it back.
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What I meant was I could look at it if you had sent it to the customer and if they lived near me (with their agreement and in their presence), I have a workshop here on site where I live.
Hope you can get it sorted, sounds very like a scammer or at the very least a bad liar, Oz :)
 
Great and kind idea from cremedemonthe. If it's not near him is there anyone else near the buyer on here that could go and view the saddle where it is now and pick it up for you so you know you will get the correct saddle back? Pretend they are a friend you are seeing soon and are saving on postage. Would obviously have to be someone you would trust!
 
This happened to me. I advised purchaser to get a report from her local saddler and she did - from the sales assistant in the shop! I was told be ebay to refund and they returned the saddle which I took for a report to my local saddler. She opened it, took photos of an intact tree, wrote a brief report confirming and charged me £50.
Ebay were still having none of it so I emailed the CEO (on here http://ceoemail.com/index2.php) and when they saw the irrefutable evidence they refunded me the price of the saddle, postage and expert opinion.
 
AnotherNewbie said:
Great and kind idea from cremedemonthe. If it's not near him is there anyone else near the buyer on here that could go and view the saddle where it is now and pick it up for you so you know you will get the correct saddle back? Pretend they are a friend you are seeing soon and are saving on postage. Would obviously have to be someone you would trust!
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Happy to help if it's near me, Wagtail. N Staffs, E Cheshire, W Derbyshire, S Yorks.
 
cremedemonthe said:
What I meant was I could look at it if you had sent it to the customer and if they lived near me (with their agreement and in their presence), I have a workshop here on site where I live.
Hope you can get it sorted, sounds very like a scammer or at the very least a bad liar, Oz :)
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Oh I see! She's in Bucks, so probably too far :( That would have been great if she's been your way. Thanks.
 
AnotherNewbie said:
Great and kind idea from cremedemonthe. If it's not near him is there anyone else near the buyer on here that could go and view the saddle where it is now and pick it up for you so you know you will get the correct saddle back? Pretend they are a friend you are seeing soon and are saving on postage. Would obviously have to be someone you would trust!
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That's a good idea. I would pay postage, obviously.

JillA said:
This happened to me. I advised purchaser to get a report from her local saddler and she did - from the sales assistant in the shop! I was told be ebay to refund and they returned the saddle which I took for a report to my local saddler. She opened it, took photos of an intact tree, wrote a brief report confirming and charged me £50.
Ebay were still having none of it so I emailed the CEO (on here http://ceoemail.com/index2.php) and when they saw the irrefutable evidence they refunded me the price of the saddle, postage and expert opinion.
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Thank you. I think if she keeps on persuing this I really need to get the saddle back.

ycbm said:
Happy to help if it's near me, Wagtail. N Staffs, E Cheshire, W Derbyshire, S Yorks.
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Thank you. Unfortunately she's in Ickford, Bucks.
 
If the buyer has opened inr than make sure you upload tracking to the dispute. They can open a snad so be prepared for that. Also, if they don't get their own way with an eBay case they can then open a PayPal case!
I would reiterate what others have said here. Get the saddle back and hopefully she's just a chancer and your saddle will be fine.
If she opens a snad case, agree to refund on return. You will be responsible for returns costs but the eBay labels are generally cheaper.
If they open a PayPal case you are not responsible for returns.
Keep an eye on local fb groups to make sure your saddle doesn't appear for sale and you are probably best trying to sell it locally on fb, pre loved, shpock etc
 
missmatch said:
If the buyer has opened inr than make sure you upload tracking to the dispute. They can open a snad so be prepared for that. Also, if they don't get their own way with an eBay case they can then open a PayPal case!
I would reiterate what others have said here. Get the saddle back and hopefully she's just a chancer and your saddle will be fine.
If she opens a snad case, agree to refund on return. You will be responsible for returns costs but the eBay labels are generally cheaper.
If they open a PayPal case you are not responsible for returns.
Keep an eye on local fb groups to make sure your saddle doesn't appear for sale and you are probably best trying to sell it locally on fb, pre loved, shpock etc
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Thanks. I just don't get how people can do this. It's so stressful. I have received saddles before that don't fit and I just resell them on eBay. Okay, often at a loss, but not always! I gave free postage on this item too.

Basically buyer had decided she didn't want the saddle before she received it and put in a not received request. Saddle arrived an hour later and suddenly it has a broken tree. The packaging would have to be virtually destroyed for that to have happened in transit. No pictures received yet. My courier says they need photographic proof for me to be able to claim back under the extended liability I paid extra for but they have a 7 day limit on this.
 
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