Eek, I've just bought a stallion!!!

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Yes I was surprised at the price.

He was kicked as a 2yo on the hock and had a bone chip which has fused back on, so now has a slightly enlarged hock which appears of cosmetic significance only ..
.
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*wouldnt this be a problem at a grading*??????


To be honest if we bring him into hard work and it causes problems I'm not bothered as his conformation, movement and jump are so nice that as long as he can still cover our mares that is what we want him for.
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*FOR 1800 Quid you could get 2 really decent stallions via AI*


If he doens't work out as a stallion we would get him gelded and so long as the hock wasn't a problem he'd be sold as a nice youngster,
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*without xrays (a cost later on) you will never kno!!!


We aren't getting him vetted as at that price if we get a couple of nice foals from our own mares he has paid for himself!!
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Think this may be unwise!!IMO


Magic104 I see your points but I really think you ought to be a bit more tactful about the way you put them, you don't know me or anything about me and you are coming across as looking down your nose at me!!!
*
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i think Magic is only going on the coments you have made on this thread, and some are rather alarming*



Once we have got him fed up and looking nicely rounded
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*could have a different horse once fed*


obviously everything points to SJ but you never know!!
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*not with a problem hock*



He has been turned out on his own but with other mares and geldings in ajoining fields without having any problems

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*
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is different having another horse in with him*
 
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Ditto; ditto; ditto!!!!

No-one in their right mind sells a 4 year old stallion with this breeding for £1,850 unless there's a very REAL problem!! Maybe she's over-stocked but hell - that horse was worth £1,850 when he hit the ground! In fact, he'd already cost at least that when he hit the ground. Even in today's economic climate you don't need to discount a GENUINE horse of that calibre so much!! [ QUOTE ]


As said in previous post 'hock injury', we have spoken to his breeder Brendon Stud, they sold him cheap because of that injury, didn't think he'd come sound but he has.... we know about that so not a problem to us as previously explained!!

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But first thing you need to do is get your vet to go over him with a fine tooth comb. I would be particularly concerned about whether both testicles are decended (a cryptorchid is useless as a stallion and very expensive to geld - would be one reason for selling him cheap!)

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Do I really sound dumb enough tnot to have checked that he had the correct essentials??!!!
We are going to get the vet out to vaccinate and check him over once he is home, he hasn't covered any mares yet but will get him tested before he covers any of ours!!

Although we haven't had stallions before my husband has a farm and has bulls so we know what testosterone full animals are capable of, so although novice with stallions I think we are in a better position that some other novice stallion owners, and didn't all you experienced people start somehwere???!!

We actually turn our main bull out on the field with a footpath (Hence me asking the question about the turnout) as he is really good and only a problem when he has other bulls nearby, in fact his half brother went out on the field with a bridleway as he was fine with the horses too. Next doors bull is a nutter and chases horses, so maybe we're just lucky!!
 

quote]

Do I really sound dumb enough tnot to have checked that he had the correct essentials??!!!
We are going to get the vet out to vaccinate and check him over once he is home, he hasn't covered any mares yet but will get him tested before he covers any of ours!!


mite have been an idea to have had your vet check him over BEOFRE you bought him!!!!
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Although we haven't had stallions before my husband has a farm and has bulls so we know what testosterone full animals are capable of, so although novice with stallions I think we are in a better position that some other novice stallion owners, and didn't all you experienced people start somehwere???!!

We actually turn our main bull out on the field with a footpath (Hence me asking the question about the turnout) as he is really good and only a problem when he has other bulls nearby, in fact his half brother went out on the field with a bridleway as he was fine with the horses too. Next doors bull is a nutter and chases horses, so maybe we're just lucky!!

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WHAT!!!
PMSL
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i wasnt going to join in, but you MUST get him EVA tested, even if you arent having him vetted. You cant let him cover mares (whether they are yours or not) until this is done - unless you want serious problems
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I just wrote an enormous reply, and then computer died!!

I have to say, I echo what most others have already said above - I saw this stallion on horsemart, and my immediate reaction was "what is wrong with him". Perhaps the reason he is priced so low is so that peolpe wont get him vetted? Not being funny, but a five stage costs less than £250, and I would not purchase a stallion without one.

My initial thoughts on this horse were that he was sterile, and that is why he is so cheap. At four years old, to have been owned by a dealer, I am shocked that he has no foals on the ground to be quite honest. I would also worry about what JG said re one testicle not descended - this would be another thing to check.

His hock would be a big thing for me too - covering mares puts a lot of strain on the hocks, and if that was to become arthrtic, which is might, he would not be too keen to cover, rendering him useless as a stallion.

If you wanted to get him graded, I would say that few studbooks would accept him with a dodgey hock, and if you submitted him for grading as a 5yo, he would have to be quite advanced in his schooling - jumping courses in a balanced, mannerly fashion, with a high level of flatwork also. You will be up against other stallions that were backed as 3yo, with no problems with their hocks etc, so I would guess the chances of grading are slim.

In which case would you then geld him, or become one of the breeders that think it is ok to breed from something ungraded, adding more mediocre horses to the surplus that we already have?

You do not know how rough he is with his mares, whether he will even cover mares, and if he does whether or not he is fertile. These are all things to check before buying a breeding stallion, especially as a first-time stallion owner.

You say you will make the money back with the foals that you sell - well, foals by an ungraded stallion, are going to be worth, at the most, £1500. When you take into consideration the vet bills (mine for scans, and general checks come to several hundred per mare) the keep, feed and other bills you will incur over the year that your mares are in foal, you will not make much money at all. You also have to take into account that you could lose the foals, or mares, anywhere along the process.

I am sure that you think this is a good idea, and a way to make some money, but there are so many things to take into consideration along the way. The fact that you aren't even getting him vetted rings big alarm bells for me - what if he has a heart murmur or any genetic diseases or problems that he could pass on to his foals - do you not feel any responsibility at all for what you are bringing into this world?

If you are determined to go ahead with this, then please get him vetted, that £250 now could save you years of heartache and mounting vet bills. Also please get him tested for STDs before you let him anywhere near your horses.

I am sure that no one on here wants to be a killjoy - we are trying to help you, and I think everyone who has posted negative comments in genuinely trying to help, not hinder you - it is just so worrying that you don't seem fully aware of what you are taking on. Please get this horse vetted, for your own safety (not ours!!) at the end of the day, it isn't our money, it doesn't matter to us if you blow it on something that might be a disaster, we are just trying to give you some advice. Please, please listen to all these very knowledgeable breeders and stallion owners that are trying to help you.
 
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quote]

Do I really sound dumb enough tnot to have checked that he had the correct essentials??!!!
We are going to get the vet out to vaccinate and check him over once he is home, he hasn't covered any mares yet but will get him tested before he covers any of ours!!


mite have been an idea to have had your vet check him over BEOFRE you bought him!!!!
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<font color="red">agree </font>


Although we haven't had stallions before my husband has a farm and has bulls so we know what testosterone full animals are capable of, so although novice with stallions I think we are in a better position that some other novice stallion owners, and didn't all you experienced people start somehwere???!!

We actually turn our main bull out on the field with a footpath (Hence me asking the question about the turnout) as he is really good and only a problem when he has other bulls nearby, in fact his half brother went out on the field with a bridleway as he was fine with the horses too. Next doors bull is a nutter and chases horses, so maybe we're just lucky!!

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WHAT!!!
PMSL
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<font color="red"> Actually pinktiger, I would rather face an angry stallion than an angry bull anyday! So think this is a little harsh.

Having said all that, I know Shirley at Brendon fairly well, looooove Unbelievable Darco to bits, and I also know she would not sell a good colt by him for peanuts without a REALLY good reason, espescially to a dealer. Would be inclined to have him checked over with a small toothcombe and have those hocks X-rayed, as, as someone has already said, stallion's hocks take a severe beating when covering. </font>

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Firstly, I know of Tracey from another forum and she always seems 100% honest, all her horses are cheap, that's the idea I think to get quick turn around. I know people who have bought from her and have nothing but good things to say.

He does have an issue, so that is one of the reasons why he is so cheap, plus he is with Tracey so she is not going to have him up for a lot even if he was perfect. So his price doesn't really worry me TBH.

I'd also like to say I can see why you bought him! I think most of us would be tempted.

Having worked at a stud farm with 5 stallions on a regular basis, I can say that all stallions behave differently and you're not going to know how easy or difficult he is until a) he matures and has covered mares and b) once he is fit and full of feed! I regularly ride and handle a 5yr old irish stallion who is an angel really, can be a bit chewy but that is normal. He covers mares and has even travelled in a trailer next to a mare but he still has it in him to show off. All stallions tend to rear at some point in their lives (IMHO!) so please bear this in mind and always wear a hat when you handle him. Another stallion there has NEVER covered a mare as he's only been trained to dummy mares for AI and he is so stalliony and highly strung!

It's difficult to get a stallion graded at the best of times really and with his hock injury (I take it he is completely sound at the moment) it will make it unlikely that he will grade IMO.

If you just want to breed him to your own mares I can't see the issue in theory, although I there is a huge push to try and improve british breeding and there is little doubt that this is not the way to go about it.

But I really hope it works out for you and best of luck, be sure to keep us updated!!
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Don't get me started on vetting TBH the experiences I've had I probably won't bother getting a horse vetted again!!

Horse failed with so say cataract that was just a surface scratch, owner had to pay for specialist eye vet just to find it was nothing a scratch!!

Horse failed for potential for resale as he had a tiny bump on pastern that although cosmetic might have put somone off buying as might think it was a splint.... huh.... it was nowhere near the splint bone anyway!!!... Vet took over a week to decide whether to pass or fail, only selling horse as a PN eventer / Hunter!!!!

At the price we paid we're willing to take the risk, re the vetting but will definitely get him EVA tested, although breeder didn't use him over mares and dealer said she didn't either. We won't use him til next year anyway, as our mares are at stud at the mo.

I just wish people could be a bit nicer when posting, I really was hoping for supportive advice not a complete assassanation!!

Does everyone have to post their full CV to prove they are not a complete dumb ass before posting anything???!!!

OK I have asked some novice questions but the responses have been so OTT!!!

I have seen this on previous thread, where someone may have asked a novice or silly question, and been completely hammered... TBH its water off a ducks back with me, I will take what I need from this and ignore the rubbish, but other people may be more sensitive and it may really upset them. Possibly even put them off asking for advice again in case they get the same response. Maybe that next time will be to the detrement of the horse they have!!!!
 
Gosh, didn't realise you weren't having him at least 5 stage vetted. Honestly, with a 'damaged' hock you need to be REALLY REALLY careful. I speak from experience as I did exactly the same as you're about to.

I bought a rising 3, 17.0hh TB filly with same such injury. Bought her from the yard of a well known show jumping family. Was given an extremely plausible explanation about her hock incident &amp; treatment. Just like you have. Her hock was enlarged but she was sound on it and as I wanted her as a broodmare (and she had superb breeding) I went ahead and bought her for £1300. Rather like you I thought with that breeding if she throws me a few nice foals I'll get my money's worth. Huh. I cringe now that I paid that for her. Little did I know what was in store.....

Got her home and had her x-rayed. Turned out she had a loose chips of bone floating around in the hock area - threatening to at any time cause serious problems for her. She wasn't lame, but it wouldn't be long before she was. I ended up spending a fortune on a weeks' hospitalisation, an arthroscopy to remove the bone chip - followed up by 6 months box rest and follow-up vet visits and meds. Of course, I couldn't claim on the insurance as it was a pre-existing condition. I was so in debt financially by the end of it all, I ended up having to lease her out to a stud. I never did get a foal out of her. The hock was always very swollen post op and she progressively became too lame to carry foals. She had 2 foals before having to be PTS.

Would I do that again? NO WAY. Honestly, you are taking an enormous risk not having him vetted, that hock x-rayed and his testicles checked. He's very reasonably priced so surely it's worth paying another £300 or so to have him checked out? Better to be safe than sorry of you've only paid a deposit at this stage. A cheap horse still costs the same in vets fees
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[ QUOTE ]
i wasnt going to join in, but you MUST get him EVA tested, even if you arent having him vetted. You cant let him cover mares (whether they are yours or not) until this is done - unless you want serious problems
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Yes VERY SERIOUS trouble with Defra even if it is your own mares that you are covering. If he has been in a dealers yard (esp one cnoncentrating on sports horses) there could well be horses coming in from abroad that are seropositive and if they are uncut colst they could well be sheeders too and that is how he could catch it. It only costs about £45 to have it done, so get the vet out today to save yoursefl a whole lot of bother in future.

A lot of studs (even cliosed herds) now have their mares EVA tested too.
 
Foxfolly – I genuinely haven’t meant to be patronizing at all in my posts and I can totally see why you bought him. I would genuinely have a few concerns with but then again as you and others have said, if things don’t work out then he can be gelded and sold on and ‘in theory’ no money lost.
I do sincerely hope this works out for you as if it does you will have got yourself a serious bargain!!!
 
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Why would anyone even consider asking is it ok to turn out a stallion with a public FP running through it.


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I'm not sure I would do this with a stallion as members of the public find horses more approachable than farm animals.

However, if is actually illegal?

We are perfectly allowed to put our bull in the fields with footpaths running through them. Good job really as we only have about 30 acres from 230 in total that don't have a footpath in. The footpath runs the entire length of the farm.

We just have to put a sign up warning the public that a breeding bull is in the field and advising them to not enter the field with dogs, especially ones off a lead. The sign also tells them they enter at their own risk.
 
have been following this and i thought the same the lights would not sell a good colt cheap and i assume it would of been less than the asking price now as tracey would want to make a bit of profit. i think people are posting really genuine posts and are trying to advise you before you get in to deep.
and i was thinking if you later have to geld him and he gets arthritits he will end up doing nothing.
 
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Horse failed with so say cataract that was just a surface scratch, owner had to pay for specialist eye vet just to find it was nothing a scratch!!

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Ditto! Had exactly the same thing happen to me with an Arab I was buying. Had a local vet out to vet him only to be told 'he has something wrong with his eyes'. I ended up paying for a specialist's second opinion. Took the second guy all of 10 minutes to confirm there was absolutely nothing wrong with the Arab's eyes nor could he see what the first vet could even percieve as a problem. HUH. Just another way to spend more flaming money on vets. Grrrrrr.
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Just because a horse fails a vetting, doesn't mean that you have to walk away from the sale. In my opinion, the reason behind vetting a horse is to find out what is wrong with it, if anything, and then make a decision as to whether you can live with those problems.
 
to be fair you have choose to post on here and ask for opinons and this is what you got,(this first line sounds agressive the way its typed out but i asure you its not) would you like people to lie to you about there thoughts? i know i wouldnt i dont think people are saying he isnt a nice horse that clearly isnt the case, they are just "wary" of the cheapish price but like you say he does have a hock past prob so that reflects in the price anyway all that matters is you are happy with your purchase and good luck :}
 
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We just have to put a sign up warning the public that a breeding bull is in the field and advising them to not enter the field with dogs, especially ones off a lead. The sign also tells them they enter at their own risk.

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Don't think that actually works in getting you off the hook if someone gets hurt on your property by one of your animals. It's flaming ridiculous but you are still liable for any injury no matter what deterents/signs you put up. We had this same problem when we had a livery yard with a PF running through parts of it. Argument goes, signs are not sufficient to deter say, children who can or cannot read, nor anyone else who perhaps cannot read yours signs for other reasons. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's definitely the position we were in when we had land, animals and PF's.
 
OFGS it is NOT rubbish to have a stallion vetted for freedom from hereditary diseases &amp; tested for EVA. When people have advised about vetting that is what they are meaning, due to him being a stallion. As for the hock again enough people have explained their reasons. Stop being so defensive if I did not know of the dealers reputation, then perhaps warning bells would not have gone off! The horse with that breeding is dirt cheap, end of. I did not mean to put a dampner on face value a real bargain. On the otherhand you did not give much away &amp; some of the questions were a bit niave for someone entering the world of stallion ownership. I would have thought lots of homework would have been done in the first instance. Your questions indicated otherwise. Sorry but if blunt (&amp; I actually pussyfooted around a bit) is hard to take, sorry but we are talking about future life here. I would NEVER use an ungraded stallion, bad enough using an ungraded/unregistered mare (gulity as charged). It sounds like he has been bought as a cheap option instead of spending money on stud fees etc with other stallions. Oh lets see, I have a couple of mares, my own land, lets get a stallion. I am not saying its the case, but it is how it came across. And the subsequent offspring, from unregistered parents, are they really going to make much money? Perhaps if you can keep them until they are under saddle &amp; prove themselve, perhaps. Again sorry I have offended you, but perhaps you should have read what you typed &amp; seen it from the other side of the fence.
 
[ QUOTE ]

You say you will make the money back with the foals that you sell - well, foals by an ungraded stallion, are going to be worth, at the most, £1500. When you take into consideration the vet bills (mine for scans, and general checks come to several hundred per mare) the keep, feed and other bills you will incur over the year that your mares are in foal, you will not make much money at all. You also have to take into account that you could lose the foals, or mares, anywhere along the process.

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Totally agree.

And that's just if you manage to sell them as foals. If you do not manage to do this -- and for good or ill most people buying foals now want them by graded stallions and with full pedigree papers from an established studbook howver pretty or athletic they are -- then you are probably stuck with raising them for 3 years and even if you have your own farm (as you obviously do) then you could be looking at a bill of ca £10,000 for each of them and it is not possible to sell 3 year olds by an ungraded stallion for that money either so both ways you will have a problem unless ...

... you listen and learn from the geniunely concerned advice that is being offered here, mainly by people who have learned the hard way and don't want you to make the same mistakes. We are not all ganging up to keep you out of an exclusive club to which we all belong (heaven forbid!) it is just that we know from practical experience (and harm to our pockets) that stallion buying and then producing is one of the most difficult tasks there is in the horse world -- second after promoting them to attract enough mares to justify keeping them which comes top of the list of course.

So please accept that we all say what we say with sincerity and think hard about what you have taken on.
 
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to be fair you have choose to post on here and ask for opinons and this is what you got,(this first line sounds agressive the way its typed out but i asure you its not) would you like people to lie to you about there thoughts? i know i wouldnt i dont think people are saying he isnt a nice horse that clearly isnt the case, they are just "wary" of the cheapish price but like you say he does have a hock past prob so that reflects in the price anyway all that matters is you are happy with your purchase and good luck :}

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I fully accept everyones thoughts and opinions, and I wanted good and bad opinions but what isn't great is the patronising way some of them are written!!

A lot of people who think I'm mad have been very tactful in how they have posted. As I try to be when I post anything!!

Its also frustrating when people are having a pop when they haven't actually fully read the whole thead and seen that its already been answered!! Again somthing I am careful to do if I'm going to post a negative response!!!

But as I said before I appreciate allt he support and advice good or bad, and I will take what I need from all the many reponses I've had!!

So to sumarise

He has 2 bollocks
Will be EVA tested
Have spoken to breeder to confirm injury etc.
Will be checked by our vet
Spoken to SHB can grade as long as sound with Vet cert stating its from injury not iherant
Used on our own mares to start with...
Gelded if not up to the job
We don't plan on selling foals unless they are cracking and someone nice wants them for decent money, we want to produce and sell once broken so not selling unproven youngsters!
We know we are taking a risk with a cheap horse but we both think he was nice enough to take a gamble!!
Thank everyone for caring to post!!
 
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I really was hoping for supportive advice not a complete assassanation!!

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I just think alot of people are genuinely concerned especially considering the price in relation to how well bred he is and also taking into consideration who is selling him.

With reference to his hock, have you considered how you are going to get the foals you breed registered? I say this because with a hock problem the chances of passing a grading are slim, they are tough to pass and without being graded you are not going to be able to register the foals onto a studbook, as someone has mentioned even to get NTR paperwork the stallion has to have a 5 stage vetting which also passes them free of hereditary problems. I would be abit concerned of getting into a catch 22 situation, where you can't grade because of the hock so can't register the offspring, but also because of the hock you can't geld and sell as a riding horse but like I said before as long as you have satisfied yourself that everything is in order and are happy that you can deal with all possible outcomes... good luck!
 
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I really was hoping for supportive advice not a complete assassanation!!

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I just think alot of people are genuinely concerned especially considering the price in relation to how well bred he is and also taking into consideration who is selling him.

With reference to his hock, have you considered how you are going to get the foals you breed registered? I say this because with a hock problem the chances of passing a grading are slim, they are tough to pass and without being graded you are not going to be able to register the foals onto a studbook, as someone has mentioned even to get NTR paperwork the stallion has to have a 5 stage vetting which also passes them free of hereditary problems. I would be abit concerned of getting into a catch 22 situation, where you can't grade because of the hock so can't register the offspring, but also because of the hock you can't geld and sell as a riding horse but like I said before as long as you have satisfied yourself that everything is in order and are happy that you can deal with all possible outcomes... good luck!

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the sire of my filly was injured as a foal and has badly scarred back legs and hocks. The stud kept him entire because of his bloodlines and his temprement. He is now 9, still sound and loose schools over 1.40m with no problems, and yes he is graded.
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"now runs for cover!"..........
 
And for every good story there is one of sadness. It hurts no one to be aware of the pit falls, that way you can avoid them. No one has meant to be negative, just a bit cautious, no harm in that. The hock could be something or nothing, only time will tell. As I said it is who has sold him that has made the warning bells ring even harder then normal.
 
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And for every good story there is one of sadness. It hurts no one to be aware of the pit falls, that way you can avoid them. No one has meant to be negative, just a bit cautious, no harm in that. The hock could be something or nothing, only time will tell. As I said it is who has sold him that has made the warning bells ring even harder then normal.

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is there a reason why all this persons horses are cheap?? I have had a look ad their adverts and all of them look very cheap, PM me is you like
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Good luck with him.

Grading isn't everything. And a pass or fail can have as much to do with how the horse is produced and shown on the day.....

Look forward to your updates. You must be very excited.
 
Foxfolly pleasse don't get annoyed with the responses on the forum, people have a different opinion on what people should and shouldn't do and I agree some people can be tactless (I include myself in that, I know I can be tactless!) I think the reason peopl have jumped on the topic is that you haven't yet got him home and there is a chance you could still get out the sale if you think it's a mistake.

If after all of what has been said on here you still want to buy him then I hope you have fun with him
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once he's home if you need any advice on handling or other stallion related questions I would ask again on here but don't go into any of his breeding/price/future plans/etc to avoid the same disucssion happening again!
 
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I really was hoping for supportive advice not a complete assassanation!!

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I just think alot of people are genuinely concerned especially considering the price in relation to how well bred he is and also taking into consideration who is selling him.

With reference to his hock, have you considered how you are going to get the foals you breed registered? I say this because with a hock problem the chances of passing a grading are slim, they are tough to pass and without being graded you are not going to be able to register the foals onto a studbook, as someone has mentioned even to get NTR paperwork the stallion has to have a 5 stage vetting which also passes them free of hereditary problems. I would be abit concerned of getting into a catch 22 situation, where you can't grade because of the hock so can't register the offspring, but also because of the hock you can't geld and sell as a riding horse but like I said before as long as you have satisfied yourself that everything is in order and are happy that you can deal with all possible outcomes... good luck!

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Hello FF - congratulations on your purchase. Just read through all of this and I agree with Teffy's summary above. I do think some posts have come across as a bit harsh (but sometimes that is inevitable on a forum!) but IMO the concerns people are raising are valid. Everyone has to start somewhere as we aren't born experts and congrats for taking the leap. He is a lovely stallion but I have to say the price does concern me - as someone said he would be worth that probably before he was born. As a mare owner I would not send any mare to him without grading and full testing for any STDs (for want of a better word!) but I'm sure you know that you have to do all that now!
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Do you have anyone on hand who does have stallion experience? The experience with Bulls will help you but you might need someone else to help you out.

I would get him checked out thoroughly before you do anything - good luck.
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he does sound lovely but very cheap. You could hardly breed a horse for that price. Have you had him vetted? I hope every thing is great with him and you really have found a bargin but I know things that appear too good to be true usually are.
 
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